Does Your Ideal Mouse Exist?

Tested the Cougar Revenger. I liked everything about it except the surface of the body of the mouse still feels sticky after only a few seconds of use. Great scroll wheel -- the quietest I've tested thus far.

Amazon is getting sloppy. I've ordered many things from them over the years and never before had a problem. However, the Cougar Revenger box had clearly been opened, yet they were selling it as new. I returned the mouse yesterday.

Still using my SS Rival 300. It's not perfect, but it's the best (for me) out of 16 or so mice that I have tested.
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Unread post10 Mar 2017, 22:04

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My ideal mouse would be the Logitech M185 but scaled up a tad bit (about 5-10%), two buttons on the left of the mouse but positioned so that my finger isn't quite over them normally (I grip my mice a bit too much when moving them as a habit from controlling things in some old games and ended up triggered the buttons on the side of numerous mice by accident). Then obviously, a higher quality battery spring and some more durable feet (they've begun to wear away, but it's lasted well). I've never considered doing a custom mouse before (considering a practically totally custom keyboard though) however have you thought about salvaging the circuitry and sensor from a mouse and perhaps the feet then 3D printing one? I've not tried 3D printing mice but I don't see any reason it wouldn't be possible, then you could ensure the size and shape would be perfect for your hand.
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Unread post19 Mar 2017, 14:15

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I got a good silent scrollwheel. : ] Logitech will switch and bate you if you send it to them tho, no hazzle.
I sweat alot and have no problems with the surface material, its not rubberized but a deep matt "ruffed" plastic - very nice, now that i look at it, probably the ideal mouse surface material. Sizewize, its OK.. I have big hands and it could be abit longer. But its ok, its one of the bigger mice on the market - only diamondback is longer.. If they didnt frack up the diamondback sensor id probably be using it right now. Oh wait the razer scamware - NVM. -_____-
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Unread post24 Mar 2017, 16:46

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IMGP5446.JPG


I got the Roccat Kova+ about a month ago. To sum it up: I like this mouse but it cannot quite compete with my Razer Deathadder. It's a bit smaller than the Deathadder which takes some getting used to but that's not a problem. The surface is slightly rubbery providing good grip. As you can see on my pictures dirt seems to stick to the rubbery surface somewhat. This mouse does not have braided cable sleeving.

IMGP5444.JPG


The 3200 DPI sensor works well enough for me, I'm a casual gamer at best. The Roccat Kova+ does not feature any different DPI settings like many other mice. I don't care for the four RGB lights but they don't bother me either.
The scrollwheel works very well, one of the best solutions I've seen in a long time. The two buttons on either side are very accessible on the left thumb side, on the right it's adventurous due to the smaller size of this mouse, not sure what kind of Kung-Fu grip I need for those.

IMGP5441.JPG


The overall quality of the Roccat Kova+ seems quite good for this price range. I have not tried the provided Roccat software. For the price of € 34,99 this rodent isn't bad at all, nothing extraordinary but certainly good value.

IMGP5438.JPG


IMGP5435.JPG
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Unread post24 Mar 2017, 17:50

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The closest I've come is the Zowie FK2 but that's still a long way off.

Ideally my mouse would be mass-less and friction-less. Dpi at least up to 2900 (unless windows gains sub-pixel pointer precision, the sky's the limit on DPI ) It would have a real middle button, separate from the scroll wheel. The scroll wheel would be free sniping like on some Logitech mice and have a switch to disable it entirely. It would have at least two thumb position buttons. It would be relatively flat, and wide & long enough to rest my whole hand on without touching the pad.
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@seebart: Thanks for sharing the pics and impressions of your Roccat Kova.

Roccat mice have a number of good features. In particular, Roccat knows how to make an excellent scroll wheel, and I respect them for providing explicit support for linux.

I've been thinking of testing their relatively new Kone EMP, which is in the larger size range that might work for me.

However, I previously tested the XTD predecessor to the EMP, and its downfall for me was the plastic used in the illuminated stripes, which imparts a sticky feel. If they must have RGB lighting, I wish they would locate it somewhere that would not come in contact with the hand. Looks like they have done that in the Kova design, but I think the Kova would be too small for me.

In the meantime, I have tested the Razer Deathadder Elite. They have made some relatively minor improvements over the DA Chroma, and I do like the Elite better than the Chroma. The scroll wheel is better, but it persists in making a slight noise when scrolling up. The feel of the body is improved. but It has some rattle when tapping the top. The rattle is not noticeable during normal use, but it makes this mouse seem less solid than the Steelseries Rival 300, which has no rattle at all. I also do not like the fact that to use all the features of the Synapse software spyware, it is necessary to log in. However, overall, I consider the DA Elite a keeper. For one thing, IMO it is the best-looking of the 20 or so mice I have tested thus far.

One interesting observation about the feel of the DA Elite vs that of the SS Rival 300 is that the Rival feels just about right for my palm grip, whereas the Elite feels ever so slightly too low in height and too short in length. The dimensions of the two are almost identical: l x w x h of the Elite = 127 x 70 x 44 mm; whereas the Rival 300 = 133 x 70 x 45 mm. It seems that the extra 6 mm in length and 1 mm in height make a noticeable difference. In fact, I think I would prefer a mouse with a large hump placed toward the rear rather than the middle of the mouse.

Just based on dimensions, the Cougar Revenger at 135 x 70 x 45 mm should have been my favorite, but its surface felt slightly sticky.

Still on the list to try out: Logitech G403, Zowie EC1-A, and possibly the Roccat Kone EMP.
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Unread post05 May 2017, 19:57

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logitech g9x. discontinued. best mouse for gaming, claw grip
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Unread post23 May 2017, 11:49

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IBM 3278 (75 KEY) - IBM 6580
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---
I really like the Logitech MX Master but it's just a touch on the large side for those who want to be able to keep a full claw on it.

Reasons?:
0. Switchable between computers (button on bottom, switch between 3 machines).
1. Scrollwheel - switchable between tacticle and free-running.

When you need to scroll to the top of 150 pages... you just kick that scrollwheel and it will free-ride for what seems like minutes...
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Unread post23 May 2017, 20:53

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I changed my mind about the Zowie. Instead of the EC1-A, I decided to try out the Zowie ZA11. This is a "high profile" "rear hump" mouse and the largest of the 3 in the ZA series.

It seemed like a good shape and size for me, although after using it for a while, i had a bit of a cramp in the center of my palm.

The surface is fairly smooth with no rubberized side grips, but the sides have subtle ledges that enable picking up the mouse easily -- it is also light for its size.

Unfortunately, the surface of the shell gets sticky after just a few minutes of use -- a problem for me with many of the mice I've tested. This issue seems to be minimized with the Logitech G403, Steelseries Rival 300, and Razer Deathadder Elite.

The ZA11 is an ambidextrous mouse with side buttons on both sides. As a right-hander, I thought the buttons on the right would be an issue, but they did not get in the way.

Zowie mice have Huano switches. I had heard negative things about these switches, but they were not difficult to press and they were not too loud. I liked them as much or perhaps more than the ubiquitous Omron switches found in most gaming mice these days.

There is no software and no LEDs except on the bottom of the mouse to indicate the DPI setting, which is controlled by a toggle switch on the bottom of the mouse. I like the simplicity, but I must admit to getting accustomed to some degree of LED lighting, and I think that software could be helpful with making settings.

The deal-breaker for me with the Zowie ZA11 was the scroll wheel. It is fairly noisy in both directions but more so when scrolling up (moving the wheel forward (away) from the user. In addition, the wheel has 16 notches instead of the more standard 24. Although I could adjust the scrolling speed in my OS settings, the 16-notch wheel just didn't feel right to me.

I've now tested 20 or so mice, including most that were recommended for above-average sized hands and a palm grip. With its pronounced high arch located toward the rear, I had high hopes for the Zowie ZA11, but for various reasons cited above, this mouse is not going to work for me.

I was going to give the Roccat Kone EMP a try, but I changed my mind. This is because I have tested the very similar Kone XTD, and the EMP still has the illuminated "racing stripes" that are made of a different plastic from the shell. This plastic has a sticky feel that ruins the grip for me.

After seeing several recommendations for the Logitch G403, I tested it and it is definitely a keeper. This surprised me, because it is a bit smaller and lighter than other mice I have tended to favor. However, I found the size and shape ideal, and the low mass makes it easier to move the mouse quickly (less inertia). The surface does not get as sticky with use as some mouse surfaces do, the switches and sensor are excellent, and it has one of the best notched scroll wheels I have encountered -- just the right amount of feedback and virtually silent.

At present, all things considered, including sensor, switches, shape, size, ergonomics, feel, scroll wheel, switch and scroll wheel sounds, glide, software, LEDs, and aesthetics, my favorite 3 mice are the Logitech G403, Steelseries Rival 300, and Razer Deathadder Elite.

These three finalist mice are all excellent, and it is difficult to choose a winner among them. Aesthetically, I regard the DA Elite as the best-looking and the Rival 300 as the least attractive, but other attributes are closer across these three. However, at present, the one that is staying on my home-office desk is the Logitech G403, and I've ordered another one for my work office.
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Unread post24 May 2017, 17:13

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I'll very much agree with you on the Roccat Kova Hypersphere, while it's a good mouse it cannot compete with the Logitech G403, Steelseries Rival 300 or Razer Deathadder Elite and I can tell you that without even having tried those. Different price range altogether! And yes like I mentioned the Kova is smaller, it does take some getting used to for me when coming from my old Razer Deathadder for example. I really should do a review on my other main mouse the Steeleries Sensei. I'd also love to try the Roccat Kone EMP.
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Unread post24 May 2017, 17:30

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MrDuul wrote:logitech g9x. discontinued. best mouse for gaming, claw grip

If someone else likes the G9(X) because of it's unusual shape, the Corsair M65 Pro might be a good mouse for you, at least if you're used to the G9's bigger grip shell. I recently got it and despite me being used to the smaller 'precision' grip of the G9 it's almost the same shape, only slighty higher, but quite a bit longer. It also has a decent optical sensor!
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Unread post24 May 2017, 17:40

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Nuum wrote:
MrDuul wrote:logitech g9x. discontinued. best mouse for gaming, claw grip

If someone else likes the G9(X) because of it's unusual shape, the Corsair M65 Pro might be a good mouse for you, at least if you're used to the G9's bigger grip shell. I recently got it and despite me being used to the smaller 'precision' grip of the G9 it's almost the same shape, only slighty higher, but quite a bit longer. It also has a decent optical sensor!

Thanks I'll have a look at it.
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Unread post24 May 2017, 17:45

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@Nuum: Thanks for the recommendation of the Corsair M65 Pro. I tried this one some time ago. As I recall, I was favorably impressed by the build quality, but it is shorter, lower, and narrower at the back than I prefer. I also found the "sniper button" on the left side to be distracting and not useful for me. The mouse is rather heavy (130.5g) with all three weights installed, but it drops to about 115g with all the weights removed. However, for those who value the solid aluminum construction and excellent optical sensor, it might be just the right thing for them.
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Unread post24 May 2017, 18:17

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That Roccat Kova is an old model and there are many things I hate about it. 2016 Kova (¿Pure?) is an entirely different story though. I've been using it for a while now, and although it looks weird, the button layout is fantastic. Plus my usual praise for Roccat's current build quality etc.

I'm slightly curious about the new Kone EMP or Owl-Eye. I don't have much use for a fancier sensor, but the coating is said to be an improvement, which makes me wonder—I already love Roccat's previous generation of coatings.
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@davkol: Thanks for your comments on the 2016 Roccat Kova.

I liked most things about the Roccat Kone XTD except the illuminated strips and the logo. Unfortunately, the Kone EMP has the same issues, which for me are both aesthetic and functional. I would consider buying the EMP if Roccat were to come out with a new version that eliminated or toned down the logo and moved the RGB lighting to regions of the mouse that would not come into contact with the user's hand. The plastic used in the illuminated strips has a clammy feel that also gets sticky after even brief use.

Manufacturers of modern gaming keyboards have listened to users' comments about logos and have toned them down, moved them to inconspicuous locations, or removed them altogether. I don't know why most gaming mice have such conspicuous and sometimes garish logos. At least some of them seem tasteful (to me), such as the very understated logo on Zowie mice. I also happen to like the Razer logo and the Logitech "G" logo is not too bad.

One thing I appreciate about Roccat is that they provide linux drivers for at least some models of their mice.
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Unread post25 May 2017, 00:16

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Roccat doesn't provide Linux drivers. They do provide hardware to erazor_de, who in turn develops unofficial GNU/Linux drivers.
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Unread post25 May 2017, 10:12

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davkol wrote:Roccat doesn't provide Linux drivers. They do provide hardware to erazor_de, who in turn develops unofficial GNU/Linux drivers.

Thanks for the clarification!
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Unread post25 May 2017, 12:19

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Is there a good wireless mouse supported in linux? I always use Logitech ones. But only basic configuration.
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Unread post25 May 2017, 15:32

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Yes it seems the Kova got an update looking at this, I'm assuming this is the one your using davkol; looks like they made the body wider and moved the side buttons outward? Still called "Kova" though. The wheel looks different too, one of the best featurtes of my (old) version. I guess this 2016 version is called the "Roccat Kova Pure".

kova2016.jpg
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Unread post25 May 2017, 16:08

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pcaro wrote:Is there a good wireless mouse supported in linux? I always use Logitech ones. But only basic configuration.

I am only interested in wired (corded) mice; therefore, I have not paid much attention to the wireless models. However, I did notice that the Logitech G403 is available in both wired and wireless versions -- this is somewhat unusual, but nice to see for those who would like to have this choice within the same model line.

I think the Logitech software for this mouse is Windows-only, but I use the same mouse on my linux machines and it works perfectly fine. I've only used the software to set basic settings such as the number of DPI levels and the magnitude of each along with the LED settings for the scroll wheel and logo.
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Unread post25 May 2017, 16:11

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seebart wrote:Yes it seems the Kova got an update looking at this, I'm assuming this is the one your using davkol; looks like they made the body wider and moved the side buttons outward? Still called "Kova" though. The wheel looks different too, one of the best featurtes of my (old) version. I guess this 2016 version is called the "Roccat Kova Pure".

The new Kova 2016 has little to do with the old Kova[+], only the shape is vaguely similar. Fortunately.

Major improvements include pretty much everything, but the most obvious differences are the wheel, button layout and the sensor.

Roccat's old wheels were complete and utter garbage—apart from being stiff and unreliable, who the hell thought it was a good idea to make the surface not flat?—whereas the new ones are top tier. Kova's 2D Titan Wheel might not look like the wheel in KPM and other models, but it's the same tactile, easy to press and consistently rather quiet (but not silent) hardware.

The new extra side buttons on top are fantastic. Really easy to use, but don't get in the way. I have them mapped to Page Up/Down and it's almost as addictive as Tyon's analog paddle or some unconventional ways to move around.

And yeah, the sensor just finally doesn't outright suck. I don't care if it's 3310, 3320 or 336x; I only want something that tracks reliably and won't have a problem with mid to high sensitivity on future hi-res screens.
pcaro wrote:Is there a good wireless mouse supported in linux? I always use Logitech ones. But only basic configuration.

Anything goes, but Leslieann over at GH boldly claims anything but Logitech and Microsoft sucks at stuff like connection reliability.

Logitech Unifying technology has quite neat GNU/Linux support thanks to Solaar, but it's not feature complete compared to SetPoint (or whatever they use on MS Windows nowadays). AFAIK that's the best you can get, though.

Roccat has recently released an updated version of Tyon, which is called Leadr. It's wireless and has lots of potential to be a great productivity piece of equipment. The GNU/LInux drivers probably do support it, but I know nothing about the wireless implementation.
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Quite the upgrade from one generation to the next then, of course all this is preference and quite relative.
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Unread post25 May 2017, 17:54

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Nuum wrote:
MrDuul wrote:logitech g9x. discontinued. best mouse for gaming, claw grip

If someone else likes the G9(X) because of it's unusual shape, the Corsair M65 Pro might be a good mouse for you, at least if you're used to the G9's bigger grip shell. I recently got it and despite me being used to the smaller 'precision' grip of the G9 it's almost the same shape, only slighty higher, but quite a bit longer. It also has a decent optical sensor!


Thanks I will look into it.
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Unread post25 May 2017, 18:02

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Kova[+] is from 2011. That's a five year gap between generations. Meanwhile, already very decent models live Savu, Kone Pure and Kone XTD came out in 2012.

And saying that it's personal preference and relative is like saying that IBM PCjr had a good keyboard.
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Unread post25 May 2017, 18:04

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davkol wrote:Roccat's old wheels were complete and utter garbage—apart from being stiff and unreliable, who the hell thought it was a good idea to make the surface not flat?—whereas the new ones are top tier. Kova's 2D Titan Wheel might not look like the wheel in KPM and other models, but it's the same tactile, easy to press and consistently rather quiet (but not silent) hardware.

That sounds promising, as Roccat is where I'd go if I gave up on Microsoft. Since I need 5-button ambidextrous, I was looking at the Kiro I think. I use middle mouse extensively and I've found that to be a major weakness, especially with Logitech. I'm wary about soft-touch surface longevity though.

The detent mechanism failed on my mouse at home and I was finding that I was quite enjoying the ability to spin the wheel for long-distance scrolling. Middle click still worked fine though.
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Unread post25 May 2017, 18:07

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davkol wrote:Kova[+] is from 2011. That's a five year gap between generations. Meanwhile, already very decent models live Savu, Kone Pure and Kone XTD came out in 2012.

And saying that it's personal preference and relative is like saying that IBM PCjr had a good keyboard.

Having used the "antient" Kova I really don't find it that crap so Roccat must have made a giant leap in every sense, I find that very hard to believe although it may be the case. Either way of course it's preference regardless of any silly comparison to 30 year old keyboards that doesn't apply here.
Daniel Beardsmore wrote:
davkol wrote:Roccat's old wheels were complete and utter garbage—apart from being stiff and unreliable, who the hell thought it was a good idea to make the surface not flat?—whereas the new ones are top tier. Kova's 2D Titan Wheel might not look like the wheel in KPM and other models, but it's the same tactile, easy to press and consistently rather quiet (but not silent) hardware.

Again very much personal preference, the wheel on the "antient" Kova is one of the best I've used. Who cares who came up with the idea? It works really well for me, no technical problems with it so far.
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Unread post25 May 2017, 18:48

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Daniel Beardsmore wrote:That sounds promising, as Roccat is where I'd go if I gave up on Microsoft. Since I need 5-button ambidextrous, I was looking at the Kiro I think. I use middle mouse extensively and I've found that to be a major weakness, especially with Logitech. I'm wary about soft-touch surface longevity though.

Kiro is probably the weirdest mouse in their lineup. It's basically a fancier version of Lua, which is a small, very basic mouse, but the same decent quality as the higher-end models.

It's ridiculously heavy for its size. Perhaps the platform for replaceable sides is to blame, I'm not sure. Regardless, the mouse is big enough only for children, Drumpf and some claw-grippers. Lua is fine at 68 g, but Kiro's 103 g is waaay too much.

It still sports the same sensor (A3050) from 2012 or so. They only polished it to make it usable at about 2000 cpi, but the market has moved on and this simply isn't competitive among mice with 3310 or 3320.

For me, the worst part is the limited firmware, though. Lua and Kiro are the only "recent" Roccat mice (AFAIK) without EasyShift, keyboard shortcuts or anything remotely similar to macros.
seebart wrote:Having used the "antient" Kova I really don't find it that crap so Roccat must have made a giant leap in every sense, I find that very hard to believe although it may be the case. Either way of course it's preference regardless of any silly comparison to 30 year old keyboards that doesn't apply here.

Early Roccat's products—just like in case of early Cooler Master's first generation of peripherals—were terrible, and I mean that both quantitatively and qualitatively.

Their marketer obviously won't chime in with RMA stats, but customer reviews give a sneak peak (e.g., from Newegg):
Mouse wheel was pretty clunky to use at first and now it seems broken after 2 months of use, it doesn't properly scroll at times.

Middle mouse button stopped working within a year

Mouse wheel axle broke about 3 months in

Middle click is hard as balls to press down.


Pyra was very similar and Kone[+] even worse. I had them disassembled, and oh boy the internals were awful…

It makes me wonder what's your point of reference for mice.
davkol

Unread post25 May 2017, 19:57

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davkol
 
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My point of reference are my other mice; a Razer Deathadder and a Steelseries Sensei. Both are well superior to my Kova in every way but I don't find the Kova that horrible. You have in fact already given your personal verdict which may or may not be slightly emotional:
davkol wrote:...there are many things I hate about it.

Now I do not test many mice that is true but some anonymous online reviews are worthless IMO. Fact is I have not had any technical problems with this "old" Kova so let's see how long this goes well...

Middle click is hard as balls to press down.

That is actually true and I like it.

But since you got me curious I'll test the current Kova next time I'm at the local electronics market and then I can see for myself if it's 1000% better in every way.
seebart
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Unread post25 May 2017, 20:12

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seebart
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Out of 37 verified customers, 10 complained that the wheel was too stiff or didn't work as expected. That doesn't sound like a good track record to me. It's more valuable than an isolated "works for me", though.
davkol

Unread post25 May 2017, 20:34

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davkol
 
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Main keyboard: Phantom (7bit); also ErgoDox, QFR, TM2030
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Favorite switch: #vintage ghost Cherry MX Black (+ thick POM caps)
Club member: -
 
davkol wrote:Out of 37 verified customers, 10 complained that the wheel was too stiff or didn't work as expected. That doesn't sound like a good track record to me.

Sure there is some truth to that but this Kova has not let me down in many months, I'm not saying it's the best built mouse out there. There is of course always the value/price efficiency relation to considder; in other words is the 3x as expensive product also 3 times better? Usually not. What your statements here sound like is that the 2011 Kova is the worst mouse out there is simply not true. How much is the 2016 Kova new? I bet it's quite a bit more expensive than the 2011 Kova.
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Unread post25 May 2017, 20:45

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