Cherry G81 off center Keys (from Peacock G81-3004LANCH)

RalF · 14 Mar 2014, 22:24

Here are some pictures of my Peacock G81-3004 LANCH. As most (all?) Keyboards with Cherry MY Switches the bottom row has off center stems. Because some people requested some pictures of them, here they are! I hope they will increase your knowledge

That's the Keyboard:

So lets's remove the first cap! As you can see, the switch is not in the middle:

Here are the left modifiers. All have the same off center stem:

And these are the right modifiers. All the same off center stems again:

I can put the modifier keys of my QPad MK 85 on the Peacock. If I rearrange them. But to be honest I have no idea why I ever should do that

The spacebar really looks weird:

I noticed that the spacebar is quite similar to the Spacebar of the Cherry G80-1851. So I took a picture for comparison. The upper one is the 6.25u spacebar from the Peacock, the lower one is from the Cherry G80-1851:

I also took a picture of the keyboard with all keys >1u removed. All other keys have center stems except the capslock key.

And I also have a bonus picture for you. It's a frog. And I just decided to use it as avatar.

Spoiler:

Laser · 14 Mar 2014, 23:25

Thanks for showing the "key-bird"

and especially the offset row

(now that i think of it, it's normal for a peacock to display a non-standard bottom ...)

How about trying to fit _those_ keys to the QPAD MK-85 bottom row?

Knowledge increase status:

|=============>90%=|

RalF · 14 Mar 2014, 23:51

Laser wrote: How about trying to fit _those_ keys to the QPAD MK-85 bottom row?

Oh, I already tried that, but I did not take pictures, I am sorry for that. I will correct that tomorrow to raise your knowledge bar to 100%. You might get a level up and be able to learn new stuff.

Laser · 15 Mar 2014, 00:03

Ha ha, i hope after level up i won't get a new ... xarmor

(i already have a QPAD mk-50)

Daniel Beardsmore · 15 Mar 2014, 00:50

Yeah, I don't know what level you're on, but there are hundreds of them and they get harder and harder. Fortunately most of them are directly accessible from the level map (like with Commander Keen IV, but more open) and they're split into islands, so you can visit Alps Island, or Cherry MX Clone Island and focus on a specific set of levels. Unlike Crayon Physics Deluxe, all islands are accessible at once.

It's a very long, and a very hard game. The wiki charts our collective progress — the Keyboard Game is a sort of MMO with a collective achievement list (with branches into MMORPGs for those who relive the old IBM days). Every achievement unlocked (e.g. Clone Manufacturer Identified, New Switch Discovered) is a collective achievement that we all share, all around the world. Thus far, even as a community, we are nowhere remotely close to winning.

I wonder why Cherry made those off-centre caps for MY switches. That's plain weird.

Vierax · 15 Mar 2014, 02:10

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:Unlike Crayon Physics Deluxe, all islands are accessible at once.

I think its more like an open map (like all the location that you can discover in Baldur's Gate 1 when you won't follow the main quest) but starting with the Alps Asylum isn't wise

scottc · 15 Mar 2014, 02:13

Vierax wrote: I think its more like an open map (like all the location that you can discover in Baldur's Gate 1 when you won't follow the main quest) but starting with the Alps Asylum isn't wise

I think that the ALPS Asylum would be comparable to a post-game infinite mode, where the difficulty increases towards infinity over time.

Kurk · 15 Mar 2014, 11:40

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:...<snip>
I wonder why Cherry made those off-centre caps for MY switches. That's plain weird.

Versatility and cutting costs, I guess.
It's obvious for the switches left of the space bar. With off-centre 1.25u mods, the switches could remain on the same position as on 1.5u boards. It just needed one additional switch in between.
On the right side it's more puzzling at first. There are no common switch positions for 1.25u and 1.5u boards. However, if you look at RalF's pictures, you'll notice additional mounting holes in the metal back plate. It seems that these are just in the right place for boards with 1.5u mods.
So here's my interpretation: Cherry decided to go for an universal backplate for 1.25u and 1.5u keyboards, probably because both variants were sold in parallel for some time (I'm speculating here). So, why didn't they design an universal backplate for 1.5u and 1.25u centre-stemmed mods? Because the mounting holes for the switches would partially overlap, and those precious, precious MY modules would fall out like rotten teeth.

Now I'm wondering why an universal backplate was worth the effort of creating separate molds for 1.25u bottom row caps for the MY series (off-centre) and the MX series (centered). You'd probably have to take the whole keyboard assembly process into account to understand that.
Another thing: how similar or dissimilar are the mylar contact sheets between 1.5u and 1.25u Cherry MY keyboards?

RalF · 15 Mar 2014, 13:39

Kurk wrote:[...] However, if you look at RalF's pictures, you'll notice additional mounting holes in the metal back plate. It seems that these are just in the right place for boards with 1.5u mods.
[...]
Now I'm wondering why an universal backplate was worth the effort of creating separate molds for 1.25u bottom row caps for the MY series (off-centre) and the MX series (centered). You'd probably have to take the whole keyboard assembly process into account to understand that.
Another thing: how similar or dissimilar are the mylar contact sheets between 1.5u and 1.25u Cherry MY keyboards?

I think you are right. I took a look at the bottom side of the plate and indeed there are holes that would fit to a winkeyless board with 1.5u keys and a longer spacebar. I think the contact sheets are universal, too, which would also enable cherry to produce a universal controller board. I am trying to proove that, but I didnt mange to remove the MY keys, yet.

[Edit]: found out that there is a pin inserted from the back spreading the feet of the switch. Any idea how to pull that out?

JBert · 15 Mar 2014, 20:49

RalF wrote:[Edit]: found out that there is a pin inserted from the back spreading the feet of the switch. Any idea how to pull that out?

You can push it upwards with a sufficiently small rod, after which the feet can be pushed together enough that the whole switch comes off. You don't need to push it out entirely.

cookie · 15 Mar 2014, 21:40

Back then when I wanted to replace the bottom row of my QFR with beige caps to fit with my DS set I got myself a G81...
I almosty cried after I saw the stems on those caps

Why on earth did they came up with such a ridicolous idea?

RalF · 15 Mar 2014, 22:08

Here are some pictures of the universal contact sheet:

usually it is a "modern" Keyboard with Windows key and menu key:

But we can easily transform it into a Keyboard without win and menu key. This is the old setup for normal 1.5 center stem keys:

So it's all compatible. That's why Cherry decided to go with off center keys for the winkey layout, because they were able to produce a universal contact sheet, plate and controller. And with center stem 1.25 keys the holes would overlap.

And for Laser, here a picture of my QPAD MK 85 and the G81 bottom row.
Yes, I can put the caps on the Qpad.
No, I don't want them to stay there because they are not translucent. And I think I did something wrong with the right control and menu key.

Laser · 15 Mar 2014, 22:19

Knowledge status: |=============>100%|
Level up!

(Now i'm content i didn't buy the peacock, as keys would not fit too well on my qpad)

MY thanks for the pics/info, much appreciated

Daniel Beardsmore · 15 Mar 2014, 23:16

Ah right, so because the leaf spring in the switch is long and flat, it will press on the membrane along more than a single point (since the contact pads are not under the centre of the switches).

RalF · 15 Mar 2014, 23:24

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:Ah right, so because the leaf spring in the switch is long and flat, it will press on the membrane along more than a single point (since the contact pads are not under the centre of the switches).

No, it just presses a single point. But that point is in the top right corner(in normal orientation). I turned the switches by 180° to get the winkeyless layout.

Daniel Beardsmore · 15 Mar 2014, 23:59

And you think Cherry would have done the same?

RalF · 16 Mar 2014, 00:48

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:And you think Cherry would have done the same?

Absolutely. Everything fits perfectly. The housing of the switches is symmetric. By rotating the switches and moving the pressure point to a different corner, Cherry can avoid overlapping of the contact points on their sheet. So Cherry managed to make everything universal for keyboards with and without Microsoft extension.

Daniel Beardsmore · 16 Mar 2014, 02:14

Something for G81 series collectors to look out for, then!

I only have a single MY switch, which was a complete nightmare to disassemble. I also lost the little fixing pins. I never did get around to posting the photos of it to the wiki. The wiki page on Cherry MY really needs an overhaul.

RalF · 16 Mar 2014, 10:31

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:The wiki page on Cherry MY really needs an overhaul.

What exactly does need an overhaul? If it helps you, you can use all pictures from this thread or from my other thread. I can also provide those pictures without tutorial text and in higher resolution...

Kurk · 16 Mar 2014, 11:32

RalF, nice set of pictures you took there of the 1.25u and the 1.5u mod configuration on the very same keyboard. I would say: theory confirmed.
Initially I thought that a different membrane would be necessary but by rotating the switches 180 degrees, Cherry pulled it off to get away with one universal membrane as well.

Daniel Beardsmore · 16 Mar 2014, 12:49

RalF wrote:
Daniel Beardsmore wrote:The wiki page on Cherry MY really needs an overhaul.
What exactly does need an overhaul?

The page layout is somewhat haphazard, especially the images.

The "Contact pads on the membrane below the switch" photo doesn't show a whole switch — both switches pictured go off the side of the frame.

Also, the page doesn't properly address the switch varieties. The black version that is reputed to be the best variety is completely missing from the illustrations. What I did for [wiki]SMK second generation[/wiki] is put every variety I own into the infobox image, but of course I don't have the fourth and final type (Cherry MX mount)! (Actually there are at least five types, as the inverse cross type is also both clicky and tactile — I guess the photo should just show the three keycap mount varieties.)

davkol · 18 Mar 2014, 22:31

cookie wrote:Back then when I wanted to replace the bottom row of my QFR with beige caps to fit with my DS set I got myself a G81...
I almosty cried after I saw the stems on those caps

Why on earth did they came up with such a ridicolous idea?

Get an ergodox, those 1.25x keycaps with off-center stems fit its 1.5x positions perfectly (except angle, of course). ^-^

daetsid · 19 Mar 2014, 22:04

I am trying to find a g80 3000 with compatible bottom row but I am not sure which model will have PBT and same colour scheme. Any help?

cookie · 20 Mar 2014, 11:03

Good luck sir

What you are strive for is a verry frustrating task! The best you could do is to ignore the g81s and look for g80s.
Or you could mix PBT caps from g81 with abs from g80 for the bottom row!
I had to mod the bottom row to make them fit on my QFR, nothing really fitted there

The biggest problem with other brands than cherry is the different stem position and that you will run into problems with thick PBT caps on boards with backplate and costar stabilizers... It's hard to get cheap caps and even harder to make them work on your Keyboard :/

@davkol: my search is over for now

Ergodox is nice but way to big for my taste. I am suffering from verry serious 60% fanboyism plus topre superiosity complex!

daetsid · 20 Mar 2014, 20:07

cookie wrote: I had to mod the bottom row to make them fit on my QFR, nothing really fitted there

Tell me how! I might want to do it since I love the keycaps and case (also the MY switches aren't that bad) but since I got two I might want to use them on my G80-3000 with Clears that I have.

cookie · 21 Mar 2014, 16:15

If you are willing to mod the caps, this is so far the best technique I have encountered: http://imgur.com/a/idnod
I did it with epoxy paste, worked out well but it was a ton of work.

The biggest problem was the stepped capslock and it's offcenter stem.
I somehow managed to get it on my QFR but it never felt the way I wanted.

kbdfr · 21 Mar 2014, 17:54

cookie wrote:If you are willing to mod the caps, this is so far the best technique I have encountered: http://imgur.com/a/idnod
I did it with epoxy paste, worked out well but it was a ton of work.

The biggest problem was the stepped capslock and it's offcenter stem.
I somehow managed to get it on my QFR but it never felt the way I wanted.

Much easier:
http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/ ... t1956.html

This is how I modded modifiers (from off-center to center mount), CapsLock (the same), and especially my Enter key (ANSI to ISO) which still shows no sign of wobbling after more than (I can hardly believe it myself, but my posts there indeed are from February 2012) two years of heavy daily usage.

Edit: by the way, you will note that ripster's tutorial only shows caps where top and bottom are parallel. Guess why