There has already been a rumor since years that older MX switches are much better than new ones. Material tests have confirmed that MX switches changed sometime between 1994 and 1995. Spring material as well as case construction slightly changed. Some Korean collectors go as far as calling the currently available MX switches utter garbage. While I never really noticed much of a difference besides on black switches, I always found it annoying that there is no easy way to tell them apart.

Turns out there is! A friend told me today that the older switches have a wider logo while the newer ones have a narrow logo. I checked it out and it turns out to be true. You can ignore the stem colors in the following pics, though that is an interesting subtle change too.. heh




Check the logos!

Cool! Nice research.

I've got an older blue-based board (with the wide lettering) that feels quite a bit smoother than my 2010 one. Don't know if it's down to wear or different materials, but I'm guessing the latter (the old board didn't seem to ever have been used).

Edit: Just noticed that the older switch 'rolls out' of the reset point smoother than the new one (when released). The new one feels like it sticks or something.

Great find sixty, so I take it the prices of older boards would sky rocket as a result? WTB OLD MX SWITCHES!

I'll be sure to test my dolch and rosewill to see if I notice a difference (dolch may feel worn).

intealls wrote:Edit: Just noticed that the older switch 'rolls out' of the reset point smoother than the new one (when released). The new one feels like it sticks or something.

Yeah I've noticed that too (except that I haven't tried an old cherry apparently). I'm looking forward to try my old clear switches in a board now

So the old switches used 301 stainless, and the newer ones use 304. Theoretically the 304 is a better stainless steel, but not sure how that applys to springs in cherry keys :p. I think the 301 works better for springs, which is probably why the Koreans prefer the older switches.

http://www.azom.com/Details.asp?ArticleID=1150

Interesting! I never actually looked further into the information about the steel types. Now I wonder if this is what also caused "the geekhack spring" to fail and make a weird sound. Still on that order, still looking to get it done soon. Will probably outsource it to another company, the guys I currently work with are slacking a bit too much.

If Koreans like older things better than newer ones why do all the Girl Bands look so young?

I remain skeptical. Sounds like internet hearsay.

Yeah, just like blue ALPS feeling different than others; bunch of crap.

Yeah - some people don't know how to do the research and listen to Cherry Corp Reps saying they reserve the best stuff for themselves.

This one for example is definitely more blue.


I can tell this despite the piss poor lighting.

So, Cherry would never cut costs by using cheaper materials? Quality above profit? Right. Their current G80-3000 case construction is just as good as it ever was, as well.

The material change has been confirmed officially, btw. Though it should not take much to clearly feel the difference. You can even hear it black switches.

Also, when I asked them I was told that the material change was not to save costs, but rather to make the switches more durable to corrosion. Kinda questionable decision, considering that if you spill liquid into a switch you are likely still fucked anyway, corrosion following or not.

The spring constant k is function of the spring geometry and the spring material's shear modulus G,

where G is found from the material's elastic modulus E and Poisson ratio n,

and D is the mean diameter of the spring (measured from the centers of the wire cross-sections),


Source

Assuming that the spring is shaped identically in both switches, this would mean that the old and new switch would have the exact same spring constant. At least according to the data found here and here. No regarded variables differ between the steel types. This kind of makes sense, since the spring constant tells us how much force is needed to expand or depress it (I think?), which should be the same for both switches.

Tell the Koreans to put some nickels on it.

Once again, I seriously doubt the spring steel makes the difference between ZOMG Vintage Blues and today's switches.

Reminds me of that whole Cherry Dark Versus Light Brown thing.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=84 ... own+cherry

IIRC the asians didn't like my answer there either.

The difference is as much as the difference between the Topre 45g switches in the Topre HHKB and those in the Topre Realforce. The rubber for the Realforce is harvested from the famous volcanic plants on Mount Fuji, from at least 2000m above sea level once every five years during the four week raining season. The ordinary Topres are harvested from ordinary rubber trees which grow in the valleys on the east side of the mountain.

webwit wrote:The difference is as much as the difference between the Topre 45g switches in the Topre HHKB and those in the Topre Realforce. The rubber for the Realforce is harvested from the famous volcanic plants on Mount Fuji, from at least 2000m above sea level once every five years during the four week raining season. The ordinary Topres are harvested from ordinary rubber trees which grow in the valleys on the east side of the mountain

Well played.

To be clear, the domes on the HHKB are molded on different machinery (as evidenced by differently shaped vents and mounting holes). They still harvest the material from the waistbands of the Vestial Virgins' panties whose cherries have been popped.

itlnstln wrote:as evidenced by differently shaped vents and mounting holes

They fart differently?

Sure. On the one hand, you have the HHKB that pretty much sharts, while the Realforce likes to attack with the SBD. It adds to the character.

How can there be such a huge difference :/ i don't buy it's drastically different. Probably just placebo.

The only vintage thing i liked about the keyboards was probably better casings compared to modern Cherry ones, and the obviously superior Cherry doubleshot and dye subbed keys.

When you're working on such small devices, slight changes can have a noticeable impact. Even something like an extra coil in a spiring can change the resistance of a switch to where to might notice.

I'm no physicist, but I liken it to why a hockey goalie plays far out from the net on a penalty shot or a breakaway. The goalie doesn't have to move as much to block large sight lines on the net (in perspective to the puck handler). Similar to the switch. A small change in mechanics, and in turn, feel, transmitted through the key stem, key cap, and finally to your (fairly sensitive) finger can be at least noticeable, if not significant.

I know, I know the hockey analogy sucks.

I have an analogy involving female anatomy, but it's a bit nasty.

The older the switch the sweeter the feel.

Cherry switches age like fine wine

sixty wrote:Also, when I asked them I was told that the material change was not to save costs, but rather to make the switches more durable to corrosion. Kinda questionable decision, considering that if you spill liquid into a switch you are likely still fucked anyway, corrosion following or not.

Corrosion isn't just about spilling liquids...humidity in the air plays a huge factor towards corrosion. At work when we finish cleaning an engine block in solvent, all the machined surfaces must be wiped with oil to prevent surface rusting...just from being open to the air.

Also, 304 stainless is more corrosion resistant (higher chromium and nickel content) than 301 stainless and does indeed cost more.

In my last post I meant 310 stainless, not 304....however what I wrote is still true of 304 stainless as well.

I guess it indeed was just to reduce costs then, and the corrosion story was made up to hide that fact

turbocharged, do you work in this kinda business? What would you consider the optimal material for springs? Since I am changing the production on "the geekhack spring", maybe you can suggest a material.

sixty wrote:I guess it indeed was just to reduce costs then, and the corrosion story was made up to hide that fact

turbocharged, do you work in this kinda business? What would you consider the optimal material for springs? Since I am changing the production on "the geekhack spring", maybe you can suggest a material.

I'm getting my Masters in Mechanical Engineering (will graduate this December). I know a good deal about the properties of metals and how to spec. out springs for a given application (at least as far as style, dimensions, and spring constants go), but I don't know that much about why one spring material is better than another...other than reasons like corrosion resistance and cost.

Let me look into it a bit more.

ATS34 or VG10 FTW!

However I'm still skeptical it makes all that much difference in these Blue Cherries.

Gives collectors something to talk about.

Weren't you the guy who claimed the white and blue Alps were the same, before you went out to prove they are not the same?