[Photos & video] Kaihua Kailh click bar switches.

I received a sample of a new switch "coming soon" from Kailh. I took some high quality photos and videos and wanted to share them here with you! Thoughts and suggestions welcome!



DSC_1222.jpg
Kailh click - switch slider. Note click arm on left side.


DSC_1227.jpg
Kailh click - switch internals. Click bar clearly visible.


Yes, I know this should go on the Wiki. Permission granted to put it there, maybe I'll get around to doing this myself. :oops:
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Unread post10 Apr 2017, 16:19

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Ah, so this basically uses the clicker from their new low-profile switches. Very interesting, I really liked those switches. How did you acquire this?
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Unread post10 Apr 2017, 18:22

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Chyros wrote:How did you acquire this?

A gift from a friend at Massdrop.

I shot the video using my Nikon D7000 with a Tamron 90mm macro lens at 1:1 (full magnification). It gives a working range of a few inches, plenty for photographing a switch. I'm really pleased with how it came out.
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Unread post10 Apr 2017, 18:32

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Thanks for the video, it is indeed wonderful macro shot. Could be better if you close the aperture more to increase DOF.
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Unread post10 Apr 2017, 18:35

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Orpheo wrote:Thanks for the video, it is indeed wonderful macro shot. Could be better if you close the aperture more to increase DOF.

I was already at f/16. The photo of the switch was at f/32. You don't get much depth of field at point-blank range with a macro lens. When shooting video your aperture speed needs to be at least 1/24s which limits things. Bright lights help.

EDIT: At f/64 - as small as this lens goes - I get a depth of field of at least 18mm, enough for a switch. I'll try that next time.
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Unread post10 Apr 2017, 18:38

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Thanks for taking the time to video and photograph it, I agree that you got some really good shots!

So how does the click spring change the feel of the switch?
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Unread post10 Apr 2017, 20:17

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How curious. So we know that the upstroke and downstroke feel different, yet this guarantees an upstroke click, something few switches offer so precisely.
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Unread post10 Apr 2017, 21:13

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Stabilized wrote:So how does the click spring change the feel of the switch?

It adds a nice snap. It adds force before the click, and decreases force a little just after. The switch is otherwise linear.

This is a really clever mechanism for adding a click and tactile feedback to a linear switch.
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Unread post10 Apr 2017, 21:28

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I really like this mechanism, I find it much more satisfying to use than a click jacket.

I was a little disappointed by how little we've seen of the ML switches they put out, but I'd love to review a fullsize of these :D .
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Unread post10 Apr 2017, 22:19

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Chyros wrote:I really like this mechanism, I find it much more satisfying to use than a click jacket.

I was a little disappointed by how little we've seen of the ML switches they put out, but I'd love to review a fullsize of these :D .

Lack of caps and boards to mount made them naturally disappear from the mech community.

I have mixed feelings about Kailh switches. I remember them producing this hideous Razer switches with the "full of shit" marketing campaign. I simply can't have that in my keyboard.
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Unread post11 Apr 2017, 12:11

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I would like to try them out , i hope they feel more like alps with a thunk rather than a crappy plastic twang .
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Unread post11 Apr 2017, 13:09

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andrewjoy wrote:I would like to try them out , i hope they feel more like alps with a thunk rather than a crappy plastic twang .

The only thing that's really changed is the click mechanism and some minor changes on the stem, so I doubt that these switches will have the characteristic Alps "thunk." There's still a lot of a difference between them. The click does sound a lot better than the typical mechanism though.

Also, I'm assuming that this mechanism still allows usage of LEDs thanks to how slim the torsion spring is.
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Unread post11 Apr 2017, 23:57

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E3E wrote:Also, I'm assuming that this mechanism still allows usage of LEDs thanks to how slim the torsion spring is.
It IS conductive though :p .
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Unread post12 Apr 2017, 07:02

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I don't think he had a short circuit in mind though.
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Unread post12 Apr 2017, 08:10

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E3E wrote:
andrewjoy wrote:I would like to try them out , i hope they feel more like alps with a thunk rather than a crappy plastic twang .

The only thing that's really changed is the click mechanism and some minor changes on the stem, so I doubt that these switches will have the characteristic Alps "thunk." There's still a lot of a difference between them. The click does sound a lot better than the typical mechanism though.

Also, I'm assuming that this mechanism still allows usage of LEDs thanks to how slim the torsion spring is.


Its not so much the bottoming out sound i actually think that sounds quite good on stiffer cherries when they have thick caps on, not as good as some vintage complicated orange alps or green alps but better than say a AT101 simplified blacks .

The click on cherries sounds terrible , it sounds like somone snapping plastic, now if that is more the alps click sound that a nice deep sound i could rock some :), tactility of cherry switches its also a bit wank , lets hope this is an improvement.

Cherry just stick to making MX blacks and improve the quality of the plastic so they are smooth , its what your good at :).
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Unread post12 Apr 2017, 09:48

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Chyros wrote:
E3E wrote:Also, I'm assuming that this mechanism still allows usage of LEDs thanks to how slim the torsion spring is.
It IS conductive though :p .

I was thinking that, but given enough separation, it wouldn't interfere. The little spring doesn't move very far. The LED might be fine.

Now that I check again, yeah. The top has an LED cut out, so it's probably designed with that in mind, as I had thought. I missed that part when I originally watched this.

Heh, short circuits... It'd be its own backlight mode without any programming needed!
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Unread post15 Apr 2017, 11:40

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If the spring touched the LED legs it would short the current and stop the LED lighting up.

It could be an excuse to bring back braided LEDs:

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Unread post15 Apr 2017, 12:05

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This design works best with surface mount LEDs.
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Unread post15 Apr 2017, 12:22

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I'm not sure I trust SMD LEDs … they're a long way down. The Matias approach just ends up with the light coming out from underneath the keycap: you just see a glowing switch. At least with Kailh the LED would be above the PCB.

Photos of these newfangled LED implementations suggest that they never seem to deliver.

I'd like to see the Romer-G implementation up close, as that seems to work nicely (although in early photos it had seemed not to) — and looking at the patent they took it very seriously. Those are damped, too, I discovered.
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Unread post15 Apr 2017, 12:51

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Daniel Beardsmore wrote:If the spring touched the LED legs it would short the current and stop the LED lighting up.

It could be an excuse to bring back braided LEDs:

Image

The top of the switch appears to be designed for LEDs. The spring wouldn't be touching it at rest either, so if it did cause a short, it'd be a momentary short and cause flicker when the spring is pushed forward, which is what I was joking about regarding LED modes without programming.

If this version reflects the production model, then it was obviously designed with in-switch LEDs in mind.

Those braided LEDs are pretty snazzy. :P
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Unread post15 Apr 2017, 14:15

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Ah, I see from the video that the spring stays out of the way. I was arranging to order some Kailh speed switches, and I've just realised that it's these, so I'll have some to play with in a month or so.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5pcs-Ka...25942.html
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Unread post15 Apr 2017, 14:24

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These are definitely some of the most exciting MX clone switches I've seen in a while, but I'm still stubbornly entrenched in Alps land. It's also because I don't want to bleed out more money than I already am, oh god.

I'm happy to see Kailh starting to get away from being synonymous with Razer and being scapegoated for all the things people dislike about Razer anymore. The hate Kailh got because of that always bothered me a bit.
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Unread post15 Apr 2017, 14:29

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Kailh make MX clones, and cloning is never that exciting. However, they're one of very few companies actually innovating and that's good to see. One day I may get to try their mini switches: if they can perfect what Cherry were going for with ML, that would be excellent, as ML is full of potential. In fact, isn't this new switch, the same click system as their mini switches? I assume the issue with ML and similar switches is the short guide shaft for the slider allowing for greater tilt — the way to tell would be to compare the standard (ML1A) and robust (ML1B) types to see if the robust type with its taller guide shaft is less prone to binding. The robust type is however EOL, and very rare — I have some loose, used examples, but I've seen very few keyboards with them in, maybe just one (the Tandberg Data one that someone's got).

Cherry's click system is plastic on plastic, while Alps is metal on plastic, so this click spring design is closer to Alps. It's an interesting idea, that should have less if any of the MX rattle.

I'm curious to hear the pitch compared with blue and/or white Alps side by side in the same environment.
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Unread post15 Apr 2017, 14:44

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Daniel Beardsmore wrote:
Cherry's click system is plastic on plastic, while Alps is metal on plastic, so this click spring design is closer to Alps. It's an interesting idea, that should have less if any of the MX rattle.


Thats what i hope for , a more alps like click
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Unread post15 Apr 2017, 15:33

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