Split, Ortholinear Beamspring...

__red__ · 14 Feb 2017, 03:32

So, this just happened...

: lefthand.png (145.01 KiB) Viewed 4704 times

ohaimark · 14 Feb 2017, 03:46

Now you just need to design the case... And source the keycaps... And cut the plate...

BUT this is awesome. Great start -- I look forward to the rest of the project.

__red__ · 14 Feb 2017, 03:53

I'll likely laser the top and bottom plate from Acrylic and cover with grounded copper-foil. Quick and easy (and in theory I have all of those parts already in my shop here).

Ir0n · 14 Feb 2017, 04:19

:> Jee DT is full of talent.

The pcb looks a lot like a Model F one.. would it be possible to make a custom plate and just put beamspring switches in a model f with some other modding? :S

__red__ · 14 Feb 2017, 04:32

Ir0n wrote: ↑ The pcb looks a lot like a Model F one.. would it be possible to make a custom plate and just put beamspring switches in a model f with some other modding? :S

There's a good reason for that.

... and yes it is (but you'd have to change the controller)

However, the distance between switches on an F and a beamspring is slightly different so you would have some gaps.

Wodan · 14 Feb 2017, 07:35

Have you designed capsense PCBs before?

It looks promising but I remember talking to i$ at the German meetup and he showed me his work on capsense PCB and explained that the biggest challenge is to make sure every row and column cross paths exactly ONCE.

If you are getting issues with the rightmost column of your PCB design, this might be due to the fact it is not crossing traces with any of the rows.

seebart · 14 Feb 2017, 07:59

If you ask me the biggest practical challenge will be the Beamspring switches themselfs?!? Sure if you can source some for this one keyboard...

__red__ · 14 Feb 2017, 13:47

Wodan wrote: ↑Have you designed capsense PCBs before?

Nope

Wodan wrote: It looks promising but I remember talking to i$ at the German meetup and he showed me his work on capsense PCB and explained that the biggest challenge is to make sure every row and column cross paths exactly ONCE.

If you are getting issues with the rightmost column of your PCB design, this might be due to the fact it is not crossing traces with any of the rows.

I will confess, I'm cheating. I'm working with DMA so the controller will have the ability to be more granular on each and every key.

seebart wrote: If you ask me the biggest practical challenge will be the Beamspring switches themselfs?!? Sure if you can source some for this one keyboard...

Completely agree. I have ~55 switches. I wish we all had a better source.

Starting fabrication of these was on my list of things to do but I was told that someone else was close to completion. Given that, there didn't seem to be much of a point in continuing my research.
I heard rumors of someone else working on getting these back into production.

Vizir · 14 Feb 2017, 14:17

Oh my god! I've been mulling this over in my head for so long now. I just didn't have the tools to measure out the pads etc to design the PCB. I'd be down to help test anything if you are looking for test subjects. I have a displaywriter which I can source the switches from. What about the controller?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

__red__ · 14 Feb 2017, 16:45

Vizir wrote: ↑I have a displaywriter which I can source the switches from.

If you are looking for beamsprings I can tell you I don't have them, but what I do have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you leave that Displaywriter intact that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you, but if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you and I will save that Displaywriter from you.

In all seriousness, leave the Displaywriter alone... there's stuff in the works...

Vizir wrote:What about the controller?

Look at DMA. His Model F controller is looking really promising.

Engicoder · 14 Feb 2017, 16:49

__red__ wrote: ↑In all seriousness, leave the Displaywriter alone... there's stuff in the works...

Should I infer that you are talking about new beamspring switches?

Vizir · 14 Feb 2017, 16:52

I don't plan to make irreversible changes to any beamspring. The switches can easily be moved and then returned to the displaywriter without any damage.

I had been thinking of creating an acrylic casing for the sandwich with a custom split pcb and then eventually a whole new case.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

seebart · 14 Feb 2017, 17:51

Engicoder wrote: ↑
__red__ wrote: ↑In all seriousness, leave the Displaywriter alone... there's stuff in the works...
Should I infer that you are talking about new beamspring switches?

In all seriousness, while I belive they could be reproduced I have serious doubts they would feel or even sound like the original.

Phenix · 14 Feb 2017, 19:30

Thats so awesome.
Please continue research to make beamsprings accessible for everyone+in an format thats somewhat normal

__red__ · 14 Feb 2017, 23:16

Phenix wrote: ↑Thats so awesome.
Please continue research to make beamsprings accessible for everyone+in an format thats somewhat normal

To be clear, it's not me that's researching them. I started down that road and started some discussions and was then told OTR that someone was close to announcing something.

__red__ · 14 Feb 2017, 23:19

seebart wrote: ↑In all seriousness, while I belive they could be reproduced I have serious doubts they would feel or even sound like the original.

Anything made of matter by human hands can be reversed ands re-engineered. The question really boils down to the new designer's priorities. Absolute perfect reproduction verses Cost for example.

codemonkeymike · 21 Feb 2017, 16:10

Who is working on recreating beam-spring switches?

Daniel Beardsmore · 21 Feb 2017, 18:41

seebart wrote: ↑In all seriousness, while I belive they could be reproduced I have serious doubts they would feel or even sound like the original.

With that attitude, I will have to confiscate your licence to be a German.

Techno Trousers · 21 Feb 2017, 19:47

codemonkeymike wrote:Who is working on recreating beam-spring switches?

I don't know details, but I recommend keeping an eye on the workshop thread for the Model MF projects. Lot_lizard has spoken positively about an effort to reimagine the beamspring switch in a new, lower profile form factor.

Current development is going towards Model F capacitive buckling spring development, but I think beamspring might be next after that (I'm guesstimating 2018, perhaps?)

lot_lizard · 21 Feb 2017, 20:45

Hope so... man I love that switch. Though like Seebart says, it would be tough to mirror it exactly if we are trying to "fix" somethings about it. Like Techno says, there have already been some designs that aren't public in the works to replicate it in a lower profile height (lots of wasted space there, and it is the one REAL weak point of the switch). Will take several attempts to prove it out and will start publishing when can test and get closer.

To be honest though... its all the leg work that people like Beardsmore, __red__, XMIT, DMA, i$, WCass, Phosphorglow, <insert 30 other names here> do in this space ahead of time that really makes picking up the pieces towards a "big project" (aka. "cat herding") actually even work in the first place. i.e... the XTant, FSSK, and several other projects are why we have an MF.

We have a LLLLLOOOOOOTTTTTTT to do in this beamspring space yet. This is an awesome step towards it. Anxiously tuned in.

Daniel Beardsmore · 21 Feb 2017, 21:01

Hey, I wasn't involved in this, you can't credit me for it :p

lot_lizard · 21 Feb 2017, 21:10

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: ↑Hey, I wasn't involved in this, you can't credit me for it :p

I'm pretty damn sure the wiki was referenced at least twice (times n)

Daniel Beardsmore · 21 Feb 2017, 21:31

The beam spring page is nothing to do with me.

Vizir · 21 Feb 2017, 21:33

OMG a low profile beamspring will be the end game switch for me,

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__red__ · 21 Feb 2017, 22:32

lot_lizard wrote: ↑in this space ahead of time that really makes picking up the pieces towards a "big project" (aka. "cat herding") actually even work in the first place.

I think you seriously undersell 'cat herding'. You make the difference between something sitting in my or someone else's lab and actually ending up in the hands of our community.

I won't quote an irc conversation a few days ago because that would be rude, but I'll say it was among people you know...

We all shared the same sentiment that your motivation, skills, drive, and sheer program management ability is an incredible asset to the community.

So, as we say at Hacker Jeopardy...

PS: please to be sharing some beamspring designs

... I take PMs