deskthority

New here. Sorry if this is something that's come up before and I simply missed it in searches. Feel free to delete, move, what have you.

My thought is, most people agree that the current state of affairs for typing numbers kind of sucks, right? Either you need a dedicated numpad that takes up valuable space (and in our case as hobbyists, often also costs more), or you use some kind of weird faux staggered faux number pad that disables the alphas until you switch num lock back off, or you just suffer through the number row at the top when you have to use it for passwords; maybe you get really good at some of the numbers, and exclusively use those when it comes down to it. The rest of the time, you assiduously avoid typing numbers, cursing yourself every time you miss the '5' key.

My pitch is: what if we introduced a new modifier? Call it 'Number Shift,' or 'Num Shift,' and put it where Caps Lock is. All this does is, when you hold it down, it turns ASDFGHJKL: into 1234567890. Seems like it would be a great deal easier to build up muscle memory for, right there in the home row. We could still keep the original row for the sake of the special symbols and/or the sake of potential standard users. The more adventurous among us could put F keys or additional rarely-used symbols on them.

What think? Am I nuts? Has this been covered?

There are already keyboards which implement this behaviour, but AFAIK this are only 40% or 45% keyboards, that do not even have a numrow.

One most programmable keyboards, such a numrow could be implemented on a hardware level (TMK: new layer and CAPS as FN key).
If the keyboard is not programmable, for most operating systems, you can probably use software (Autohotkey for Windows)

I like the idea but what would you do with the current numbers row and their secondary symbols (!, @, ...) ?

j0d1 wrote: ↑I like the idea but what would you do with the current numbers row and their secondary symbols (!, @, ...) ?

Not only that but what happens to Caps Lock?

I assume it's for speed more than anything, being able to touch type numbers a little quicker without leaving the home-row. TBH, I just assumed that if you type numbers often enough that you worry about touch typing them quickly then the space concerns of the number pad are nullified. If you're just worried about typing them quickly from the home-row, then you might be better off just learning to touch type on the number row already there

That sounds terrible. Why not just use the number row instead of using an identical row two row below it for which you need to use an additional key?! Oo

Besides, if you work with numbers a lot, you use a numpad, either integrated or external, right? So much quicker than all this mumbo jumbo.

Really depends on the board, I wouldn't use it with the caps lock key but if you have a planck with enough thumb keys it's fine. You need some time to get used to it but it's definitely nice to be able to type numbers in the home row. For the secondary symbols I would use the qwerty row.

For anyone working on at least a regular full size AT keyboard this is obviously really unnecessary.

Yeah, I agree. If you use 40% boards you have no other chance to input numbers, but you will need a lot of training to reach a normal typing speed, the only advantage is that it's way easier to touch type compared to the normal numrow.

Chyros wrote:That sounds terrible. Why not just use the number row instead of using an identical row two row below it for which you need to use an additional key?! Oo

You don't have to move the hand which is pretty comfortable for typing imo. But I wouldn't use caps lock for it, you would use the pinkie finger for it and then you have 9 fingers left for 10 numbers, that's not comfortable at all. If you have a planck where you can toggle the layer with a thumb key it's pretty nice, but apart from some boards with 3+ thumb keys, there are no boards where I would recommend such a number input method.

hansichen wrote: ↑Yeah, I agree. If you use 40% boards you have no other chance to input numbers, but you will need a lot of training to reach a normal typing speed, the only advantage is that it's way easier to touch type compared to the normal numrow.

Chyros wrote:That sounds terrible. Why not just use the number row instead of using an identical row two row below it for which you need to use an additional key?! Oo

You don't have to move the hand which is pretty comfortable for typing imo. But I wouldn't use caps lock for it, you would use the pinkie finger for it and then you have 9 fingers left for 10 numbers, that's not comfortable at all. If you have a planck where you can toggle the layer with a thumb key it's pretty nice, but apart from some boards with 3+ thumb keys, there are no boards where I would recommend such a number input method.

You guys don't use anywhere near enough numbers, I can tell :p .

Strings I input is stuff like

54200006 6 5.17 1100110031 34.21 000554.1 54200600 2 5.17 1001001037 11.35 000554.1 542000276 3 5.17 1100110031 18.05 180184.1.1 etc. etc.

Or rows upon rows of mass numbers or catalysis results (conversions, yields, mass balances, normalisation factors, selectivities, component numbers, calibration numbers, response factors, turnover numbers, turnover frequencies, etc.).

When you use that many numbers, no number shift or clever layout or number row will do.

Well, you are used to entering numbers (and with that amount I would probably use a numpad too) but keyboard layouts are mainly a theoretical thing.
Sure, Colemak is better than qwerty, ortho is better than staggered, ergodox is better than ortho, a better numrow, eg most used numbers (0 and 1 in your case) on F and J. With all these things you will have a better typing experience from a theoretical point of view. Realistically you will be slower with many of these methods because you are used to staggered, qwerty etc and you have become very fast with it within the years.
Same applies to the numpad in your case, numbers in the homerow may be better but if you need a year to reach the normal speed with a better typing experience it's probably not even worth trying it.