CommonSense: matrix LCR meter with a HID interface

__red__ · 20 May 2017, 09:02

Sadness wrt vendors

tigpha · 22 May 2017, 06:38

DMA wrote: ↑
wcass wrote: ↑So, ... at low volume, FR4 is better quality and a lot cheaper.
Wow. Is it because of silver?

Most likely to be the one-time cost of tooling. Only big production runs make the up-front tooling cost viable by spreading the cost over many units. The units themselves are probably dirt cheap, which is why membranes are dominant these days.

__red__ · 22 May 2017, 21:21

There was one company that had a technology that let them just print the stuff straight to acetate sheet. They no longer do prototyping runs. There has no be another way, we just have to find it I guess...

DMA · 22 May 2017, 21:37

__red__ wrote: ↑There was one company that had a technology that let them just print the stuff straight to acetate sheet. They no longer do prototyping runs. There has no be another way, we just have to find it I guess...

Well, copper tape and #1 hobby knife

Anyway, with project MF in hibernation and beamspring people unwilling to experiment, this project reached the end of the road.

I'll update the repo to use CY8CKIT-059, (in case there ever be a second user), and try to summarize my findings and know-how on DT wiki somewhere (so that someone willing to pick up the flag doesn't have to walk all the way to it in this swamp, and can use the paved way).

emdude · 22 May 2017, 21:41

DMA wrote: ↑Anyway, with project MF in hibernation and beamspring people unwilling to experiment, this project reached the end of the road.

That is too bad. Thanks for your efforts, DMA. I hope the MF can use CS in some form when it is revived.

seebart · 22 May 2017, 21:55

DMA wrote: ↑...and beamspring people unwilling to experiment...

What exactly do you mean by that?

Looks like I'll have to get some xwhatsit controllers made after all.

DMA · 22 May 2017, 22:21

emdude wrote: ↑That is too bad. Thanks for your efforts, DMA. I hope the MF can use CS in some form when it is revived.

If you don't mind soldering - you can use it, actually. Configuration is a bit inconvenient right now - but __red__ was able to get his instance working in a day.

If the MF project is revived - ping me, I promise I'll be back and help.

seebart wrote: ↑
DMA wrote: ↑...and beamspring people unwilling to experiment...
What exactly do you mean by that?

I offered to switch in Wodan's xwhatsit GB post. No one took me seriously.
Because of that I have an impression that people want something that they know is working - even if it doesn't work reliably.
Project MF was to be a proof that CS actually works. Without it.. I don't want to start the GB to prove the point (because registering LLC and figuring out taxes costs money and headache - and interest check without putting money where your mouth is will not prove anything) - but I don't think there would be more than 10 people actually committing.

seebart wrote: ↑Looks like I'll have to get some xwhatsit controllers made after all.

You can use CY8CKIT-059, like __red__ did. But see, that's exactly what I'm talking about. You'd rather go and get some proven designs made

seebart · 22 May 2017, 22:30

Trust me, after all this work you've shown us here you are taken very seriously. You don't have to start a GB to prove anything you already did, after all we did not know the MF project was suspended. The work you did here is more valuable than any GB. I think I will follow __red__ and use CY8CKIT-059 just to find out for myself because I already have two xwhatsit's here I know those.

__red__ · 22 May 2017, 23:02

Do eeet!!

The only advice I'll give you is to make sure you don't put any stress on the USB socket on the devkit. Make sure you clamp that cable down.

The firmware works flawlessly on my 5251. 10/10, would flash again

snoopy · 26 May 2017, 11:36

DMA wrote: ↑ Project MF was to be a proof that CS actually works. Without it.. I don't want to start the GB to prove the point (because registering LLC and figuring out taxes costs money and headache - and interest check without putting money where your mouth is will not prove anything) - but I don't think there would be more than 10 people actually committing.

With the ongoing Model F hype, I bet you could easily get 100 orders within the first days (if you also involve the geekhack guys).

idollar · 28 May 2017, 12:26

@DMA - I have only browsed through the thread and it seems very interesting.
It would be a pity not to continue. My experience in prototyping is that indeed, people in general may not be interested, but some would support it. I will for sure.

snoopy wrote: ↑
DMA wrote: ↑ Project MF was to be a proof that CS actually works. Without it.. I don't want to start the GB to prove the point (because registering LLC and figuring out taxes costs money and headache - and interest check without putting money where your mouth is will not prove anything) - but I don't think there would be more than 10 people actually committing.
With the ongoing Model F hype, I bet you could easily get 100 orders within the first days (if you also involve the geekhack guys).

I am sure that if turns out to work, you will could get your work paid back.

seebart · 28 May 2017, 12:28

__red__ wrote: ↑Do eeet!!

The only advice I'll give you is to make sure you don't put any stress on the USB socket on the devkit. Make sure you clamp that cable down.

The firmware works flawlessly on my 5251. 10/10, would flash again

OK good to know. I may contact you along the way.

__red__ · 29 May 2017, 03:39

seebart wrote: ↑
__red__ wrote: ↑Do eeet!!

The only advice I'll give you is to make sure you don't put any stress on the USB socket on the devkit. Make sure you clamp that cable down.

The firmware works flawlessly on my 5251. 10/10, would flash again
OK good to know. I may contact you along the way.

Please do... I'm __red__ on irc freenode too.

I have a few edge-connectors arriving on Tuesday. I'll proto with one and maybe make a short-run 5251 -> Cypress adapter board for myself instead. I'm planning on putting six Raspberry Pis inside this 5251 to make a 24 core erlang cluster

lot_lizard · 29 Aug 2017, 16:16

A small update... I have been moving rocks around in the dark, and we made some headway. As mentioned in the MF thread(s), I will just plan on fronting all of this, and have the complete MF project in hand before we do the buy again.

I haven't been on here in multiple months, but did reach out to DMA yesterday to start down our CommonSense path. I didn't realize we already had a logo, but threw this together on a plane trip several weeks ago. Not advocating it's use (I like DMA's) but posting here just for posterity (and I'll forget to later

). Captain Modesty preferred we removed his name from the logo below regardless

: commonSense.png (13.99 KiB) Viewed 7208 times

EDIT: The trailing semi-colon was tribute to Thomas Paine along with being nerdy

Techno Trousers · 29 Aug 2017, 18:05

Hey there, lot_lizard. So nice to see you around again. I hope this means I can soon stop being envious of the progress on the F62/F77 project and start getting hyped again for the real form factor model MF.

emdude · 29 Aug 2017, 19:24

lot_lizard wrote: ↑I haven't been on here in multiple months, but did reach out to DMA yesterday to start down our CommonSense path. I didn't realize we already had a logo, but threw this together on a plane trip several weeks ago. Not advocating it's use (I like DMA's) but posting here just for posterity (and I'll forget to later ). Captain Modesty preferred we removed his name from the logo below regardless

commonSense.png

That logo is really cool.

Seeing this or DMA's Descent-style logo on CS would be great!

Appreciate the general update, looking forward to the resumption of the MF GB!

DMA · 16 Sep 2017, 04:15

Thought I'll leave this here. Got this in the mail today.

: cs-mf.jpg (230.31 KiB) Viewed 7023 times

Techno Trousers · 16 Sep 2017, 06:15

Wowie wow wow, that is one gorgeous piece of hardware!!

drevyek · 16 Sep 2017, 10:58

fantastic! Really great looking board.

JP! · 22 Sep 2017, 04:01

Really nice work of this project.

tigpha · 22 Sep 2017, 20:27

"Device 'PSoC SLP CY8C5888LT*-LP097' was successfully programmed at 09/22/2017 19:13:24."

Ordered the Cypress device yesterday from RS for £7.69 which is silly cheap, and it arrived today. Awesome service from RS.

What prompted me to try again was that I am on sick leave, bored, and recently was given a proper MS-Windows 64-bit O/S laptop at long, long last. I can finally program on the tools I am given to use!

Next up is compiling the Flight Controller, and trying to understand which wires connect where on the salvaged IBM Model F PC-XT that I plan to torture...

Can anyone offer hints and help with the wiring?

lot_lizard · 22 Sep 2017, 20:40

One thing that would be HIGHLY valuable going forward would be a proper UI for key mapping and tuning (unique per key) if anyone is bored. I'm sure DMA has some great thoughts already

__red__ · 22 Sep 2017, 22:15

Define "propper".

The current UI does do all the required configuration. What's missing?

Daniel Beardsmore · 22 Sep 2017, 22:21

__red__ wrote: ↑Define "propper".

It should be an agent noun for a person or object that props things, but instead it's "a manufacturer of clothing and gear for tactical, law enforcement, public safety, and military applications" established in 1967. The first "P" should be a capital letter.

HTH.

Techno Trousers · 22 Sep 2017, 22:23

__red__ wrote:Define "propper".

The current UI does do all the required configuration. What's missing?

IIRC, last I saw, there wasn't a facility to easily program macros. I don't know if that just needed to be built into the UI or if other firmware changes were needed. TBH, I haven't played with the program myself yet.

tigpha · 22 Sep 2017, 22:45

Well, after a few hacks to regress the Flight Controller Qt version to that of Ubuntu 14.04LTS (qInfo isn't available, replaced it with qWarning, and memcpy_s replaced with memcpy, Q_ENUMS possibly(?) misspelled as Q_ENUM etc...) I have permission settings to deal with:

Code: Select all

Acquiring device.. 
Found a node! 
Trying to use /dev/hidraw7 
Cannot open device. Linux permissions problem? . 
Found a node! 
Trying to use /dev/hidraw7 
Cannot open device. Linux permissions problem? . 
... ... ...

Possibly udev rules, or account group settings, or some such. I'm sleepy and out of ideas. I'll continue tomorrow and leave with a plead for help. Any clue is gratefully received...

lot_lizard · 22 Sep 2017, 22:51

__red__ wrote: ↑The current UI does do all the required configuration. What's missing?

I didn't think DMA had started in on a GUI yet. Personally, yaml's and the like comfort me. But for a wider spread adoption, a GUI saves the learning curve for the masses. He might already have one going and I just missed it though.

One thing I did appreciate about the xWhatsit was the key press lighting up for the corresponding row/column map. Again, I haven't been following like I should though on our progress

tigpha · 22 Sep 2017, 22:53

tigpha wrote: ↑Any clue is gratefully received...

... Or maybe? ...

Code: Select all

sudo ./FlightController

D'uh!

I really am tired!

Code: Select all

Acquiring device.. 
Found a node! 
Trying to use /dev/hidraw7 
Downloading config.. ...............................................................
done, unpacking... 
Configuration changed. 
CommonSense v0.1, die temp +30C
Quenched: false, Matrix monitoring: false, setup mode: true
time: 1100514

The "Matrix monitor" is a fantastic testing tool for new PCB matrix designs

But a manual for Flight Controller would be big help right now, the tool is terse and sophisticated.

DMA, if you're listening, a big thanks from me for all the hard work. I've finally got some CommonSense.

DMA · 23 Sep 2017, 05:10

Sorry for the delayed response - Facebook summit week, was away from the keyboard.

Congratulations tigpha, you're officially user #2 (#1 if zero-based)!

tigpha wrote: ↑But a manual for Flight Controller would be big help right now, the tool is terse and sophisticated.

Well, you now have a real chance to contribute

Not to FlightController building instructions - https://github.com/dmaone/CommonSense/t ... r/Qt-build takes care of that - but the user-facing instructions.
The only complicated part there is "Configuring thresholds" - it needs screenshots and better step by step instructions. Everything else is pretty straightforward. Layouts, for example, are pretty easy after thresholds are done - press the key, select what it is in highlighted dropdown, repeat 126 times. There is no macro editor - still can't wrap my head around that. Firmware has macros, but no editor.

As for butchering an XT keyboard - it's quite easy. Look at the PCB between "controller" part and "keys" part. You'll see a row of plated holes. Cut traces on the controller's side, solder wires to those holes. Done.

tigpha · 23 Sep 2017, 10:13

DMA wrote: ↑Sorry for the delayed response - Facebook summit week, was away from the keyboard.

Congratulations tigpha, you're officially user #2 (#1 if zero-based)!

Well, you now have a real chance to contribute ...

Thanks DMA

I certainly want to -- you contributed so much for free.

The build instructions are as clear as they need be -- the only gotchas were caused by the idiot/evil IT dept setting my home directory to be a network drive, not on the local disc. I forgot to specify file and folder paths during installation that are normally taken for granted. This confused PSoC Creator no end until I reinstalled the lot.

The Flight Controller code needed a few alterations before it succeeded. I want to share those with you to be sure that I didn't make foolish assumptions. Please can you suggest how we can share and review code?

The next hurdle is understanding the pin mapping, and which pins on the CY8CKIT are connected to rows and which are the columns. The diagram in PSoC Creator didn't offer a clue. You describe a Recommended Pinout which I will follow. The order of the rows and columns are irrelevant, I suppose, since this is configured using the Flight Controller. I'll try to draw up a set of diagrams and h/w assembly instructions as I progress...