Model M NKRO via a Capacitive Conversion?

awesomemodelm

14 Dec 2017, 09:57

I was thinking about the easiest ways of converting the model m to operate with NKRO.

It seems there are three general possibilities:
  • Somehow integrate a TON of diodes throughout the existing membrane matrix
  • Produce a custom flexible PCB for the model m
  • Somehow convert the existing membrane matrix to capacitive operation
Adding the diodes is possible, but is obviously not the ideal option and is certainly not the easiest nor the cleanest option.

Producing a flexible PCB seems the cleanest option, but cost is then the issue for this option. Even via dirtypcbs, the cost quickly becomes excessive, especially if you need to do a few design iterations.

So, I am considering the third option (re the title) wherein I 'somehow' convert the existing membrane, hammers, or whatever with the result being that the model m can then somehow operate with a solution akin to xwhatsit's solution.

Undertaking said conversion, I would want to assure that the existing mechanical operation (movement, force patterns, general 'feel', etc) of the model m remains as close to 'natural' as possible. I would of course not want the model m to feel 'worse' (somewhat subjective) in anyway, sure it could end up feeling more like a model f, that is a consideration, but not 'worse'.

So, I just wanted to come here and ask if anyone had considered such modifications before and also if anyone had any input or feedback to offer.

In terms of the 'easiest' way to convert the model m to full capacitive key operation, I thought that the integration of a VERY thin poly sheet just above the lowest membrane (that nearest the steel plate) would be perhaps the easiest option.

The layout would be:

Steel plate -> existing model m membrane with conductive traces -> thin poly sheet with no holes -> existing model m spacer membrane with existing holes -> second existing model m membrane with conductive traces

The addition of the very thin poly sheet would act to never allow the conductive membrane layers to ever touch each other. Ideally, this poly sheet would be as thin as possible.

Now, for the operation. Basically, when the buckling spring actuates and the hammer depresses upon the membrane stack, this then modifies the capacitance between the two existing membranes with conductive traces. The reason the existing model m's spacer membrane with existing holes is kept is to allow for a greater 'change in capacitance' before and after the hammer depresses the membrane stack. The greater the change in capacitance, obviously, the easier it is to 'detect' when a given key has been pressed or not. This is where the thin poly sheet comes into play also, the thinner the better, as the capacitance change increases per the thinness of the poly sheet. So, it is the combination of the slight air gap provided by the existing spacer membrane and the poly sheet that both contribute to the resultant change in capacitance possible per key per press. Given sufficient change in capacitance, I think this seems a via option.

I hope the above is clear and makes sense what it is I am trying to achieve and how. Any suggestions, thoughts, considerations?

I have the means of producing the above myself, in terms of test equipment and the like, GHz scopes, etc, but, I figured, why not seek some alt suggestions before I embark on a huge project via a defined path when I can may integrate a few paths into one or something?

Thanks all.

User avatar
Chyros

14 Dec 2017, 11:06

Did you read about the Model MF project? It's basically exactly this.

HuBandiT

14 Dec 2017, 18:31

awesomemodelm wrote: I was thinking about the easiest ways of converting the model m to operate with NKRO.

It seems there are three general possibilities:
Two more options:
  • have a replacement 1×N "matrix" custom membrane designed and printed
  • or you could try using the resistance inherent in the conductive film used in the original membrane

User avatar
Ir0n

14 Dec 2017, 18:59

I've looked over what you've post and put my TOP men on the job to come up with something.. this is the result
A PCB for an SSK!

Image
(ignore my caps.. I was lazy and have a bucket full of single piece caps..)

Jokes aside as Chyros said you got both FSSK/MF doing just this. :o

The FSSK files are on there some where if you search for em' then you can get some printed and maybe sell some to members on here.

Edit 1: workshop-f7/fssk-v1-0-installation-user ... 13551.html

Edit 2: I remember seeing in one of the topics lotlizard actually 3d printed a barrel plate for XT style barrels to go with the FSSK.. Lol I thought that was really cool. Wish he posted the files for that.. D;

awesomemodelm

15 Dec 2017, 00:04

Chyros wrote: Did you read about the Model MF project? It's basically exactly this.
No, lol, thanks!
HuBandiT wrote:
awesomemodelm wrote: I was thinking about the easiest ways of converting the model m to operate with NKRO.

It seems there are three general possibilities:
Two more options:
  • have a replacement 1×N "matrix" custom membrane designed and printed
  • or you could try using the resistance inherent in the conductive film used in the original membrane
Now, that is very interesting, both of them, especially the "using the resistance" idea!

Ir0n wrote: I've looked over what you've post and put my TOP men on the job to come up with something.. this is the result
A PCB for an SSK!

Image
(ignore my caps.. I was lazy and have a bucket full of single piece caps..)

Jokes aside as Chyros said you got both FSSK/MF doing just this. :o

The FSSK files are on there some where if you search for em' then you can get some printed and maybe sell some to members on here.

Edit 1: workshop-f7/fssk-v1-0-installation-user ... 13551.html

Edit 2: I remember seeing in one of the topics lotlizard actually 3d printed a barrel plate for XT style barrels to go with the FSSK.. Lol I thought that was really cool. Wish he posted the files for that.. D;
That is absolutely hilarious!

Your team really moves on things fast man, I mean, I just posted not even 24 hours ago! LOL!

Good idea on the offsetting of the cost to make the PCBs, or just having them available for other users of the forum such that they would not need to do a PCB run by themselves.

I happen to have an Airwolf 3D printer, go figure :).

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