A new US Republican thread 2016

[seebart]

Young boy to Pence: Are you Trump's apologist?

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/m ... ump-226666

Good one, I like that. In fact I bet there is some truth to that. Next to Trump Pence seems normal and calm. And I'm sure there was a good reason that Lewandowski dude quit.

[fohat]

2007 Interview of Donald Trump by Wolf Blitzer: (just to show that what goes around, comes around - or not)

BLITZER: The war is hovering over politics right now, as it should -- this is the dominant issue, at least right now, of our time. Give us your assessment. Is there a way out?

TRUMP: The war is a total disaster. It's a catastrophe, nothing less. It is such a shame that this took place. In fact, I gained a lot of respect for our current president's father by the fact that he had the sense not to go into Iraq. He won the war and then said, Let's not go the rest of the way. And he turned out to be right. And Saddam Hussein, whether they liked him or didn't like him, he hated terrorists. He'd shoot and kill terrorists. When terrorists came into his country, which he did control and he did dominate, he would kill terrorists. Now it's a breeding ground for terrorists. So, look, the war is a total catastrophe.

BLITZER: Who do you blame?

TRUMP: Well, there's only one person you can blame, and that's our current president. I mean, obviously Rumsfeld was a disaster, and other people that are giving him advice have been a disaster.

BLITZER: How does the United States get out of this situation? Is there a way out?

TRUMP: You know how they get out? They get out. That's how they get out. Declare victory and leave. Because I'll tell you, this country is just going to get further bogged down. They're in a civil war over there, Wolf. There's nothing that we're going to be able to do with a civil war. They are in a major civil war, and it's going to go to Iran, and it's going to go to other countries. They are in the midst of a major civil war, and there's nothing -- and by the way, we're keeping the lid on, a little bit. But the day we leave anyway, it's all going to blow up.

BLITZER: Thank you very much. Let's talk politics. All right? A lot of people thinking about politics right now. I'm going to mention some names: give me your thoughts right away. Hillary Clinton.

TRUMP: Very talented, very smart. She's a friend of mine, so I'm a little bit prejudiced. She's a very, very capable person and I think she'll probably be the nominee. We'll see, but I think she'll probably be the nominee.

BLITZER: Is she ready to be commander-in-chief?

TRUMP: I think she is. I think she's a very, very brilliant person, and as a senator in New York, she has done a great job. Everybody loves her. She just won an election with a tremendous majority and she really -- she's become very, very popular in New York. And it wasn't easy.

[seebart]

Of course he's right on the war, but the last two answers are brilliant.

[vivalarevolución]

Easy there, let's not hold politicians accountable for their words, that doesn't work these days.

[seebart]

Easy there, let's not hold politicians accountable for their words, that doesn't work these days.

Very true, especially in the case of trump. Zig zag flip flop.

President Ronald Reagan's daughter Patti Davis denounced Donald Trump's "Second Amendment" remarks via a popular open letter on Facebook:

http://www.snopes.com/2016/08/11/patti- ... ces-trump/

[fohat]

Something will eventually get the Mongol horde's attention:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/15/us/po ... .html?_r=0

[fohat]

Trump is finally realizing that being deep in bed with the Russians is not something that even his imbecilic followers will tolerate.

Hopefully, criminal charges against Manafort will quickly follow.

Then, when Trump is forced to admit that he has been complicit in illegal international politics for many years, he will be forced out and his minions will begin to understand that he has duped them even more thoroughly and insidiously than the Koch brothers did.

[vivalarevolución]

You're expecting the minions to know when they have been duped? That is expecting too much.

Anyways, looks like the Trumpet has dug himself into a rather deep hole at this point. He will have some difficulty getting himself out of this one. I think many of the voters are basing a decision on the culmulative effect of his past statements and actions, rather than anything he does from here on out. Hillary has a comfortable lead. I wonder if the entertainment sideshow known as the debates will change anything. Probably not, those are too long for an average American's attention span.

[fohat]

anything he does from here on out

Hillary has a comfortable lead.

the entertainment sideshow

I think that the end game is coming into focus. Rather than steering inwards, he has hired the most vile and toxic attack dogs imaginable to lead his campaign into full battle mode.

Since his Russian entanglements have nailed his coffin shut and will eventually impeach even the minuscule credibility he might have had with even his most ignorant and delusional followers, the only play he has left is to inflict as much damage on Clinton as possible.

If we are lucky, this will play out on a personal level and his petty pride and monumental vindictiveness will backfire and show beyond doubt what a horrible infantile person he truly is, with minimal effect on the Democrats. At worst, he will ignite a firestorm (literally) on Election Day, or afterwards. He already has sign-up lists for his minions to "monitor" polling places on Election Day .....

My hope is that a majority of Republican candidates choose to remain tethered to him, and that he will take as many down with him as possible.

But honestly, I suspect that he will capriciously drop out a week or 2 or 3 before the election rather than suffer the embarrassment of a major defeat.
That way, he will be able to point to a few million worthless write-in votes as his true legacy.

[fohat]

As the US sinks deeper into the quagmire, sometimes it is simply too depressing to post here.

And, worse, that we will be saddled with a Brexit-esque nightmare resulting from a large mindless emotional "fuck-you" vote.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/9/13 ... ts-working

[vivalarevolución]

Nice article. I certainly think the media has let him off quite easily by not pressing more on his blatent lies, but instead focusing on the shock. The media tends to treat our presidential candidates as two entities with policies worthy of equal consideration. If the press wanted to examine the political system, they would do some serious work on how rigged the political process is to benefit the two parties rather than actually foster a healthy democracy. The candidates would receive some nominal coverage, as they are only the result of the problem, not the cause.

The pendulum seems to have swung in Trump's favor for the moment, I imagine because his less-assholeish tone and incessant attacks on Clinton are paying off, sowing some doubt in an impressionable independent voter. That's all he has, really, because he has little policy or any clue what he actually will do in office. The only legitimate reasons I can think of to vote for Trump is he isn't Hillary Clinton, he is Washington outsider (like that matters), and he knows a thing or two about running a business (but nothing about running a government).

But as long as the lights are still one and the Internet still fires up on our electronic devices, I don't think most Americans really care what happens.

[fohat]

he knows a thing or two about running a business

Where do you get that information?

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/08/12/dona ... 86091.html

[vivalarevolución]

he knows a thing or two about running a business

Where do you get that information?

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/08/12/dona ... 86091.html

I said a thing or two. Not a lot, but a thing or two.

[vivalarevolución]

Anyways, looks like the Trumpet has dug himself into a rather deep hole at this point. He will have some difficulty getting himself out of this one. I think many of the voters are basing a decision on the culmulative effect of his past statements and actions, rather than anything he does from here on out. Hillary has a comfortable lead. I wonder if the entertainment sideshow known as the debates will change anything. Probably not, those are too long for an average American's attention span.

Eating my words here. The Trump comeback is on.

[andrewjoy]

Well when one candidate insults half of the electorate and one tells everyone that even if they don't vote for them they respect them what do you expect ?

[fohat]

Well when one candidate insults half of the electorate and one tells everyone that even if they don't vote for them they respect them what do you expect ?

Please correct me if I am in error in attempting to interpret your statement above, but if by "half of the electorate" were you mistakenly referring to the (specifically identified) 50% of Trump's ~44% polled supporters (~22% of the "US electorate" at most) whom Clinton referred to as "deplorable"?

Because of course those 22% are genuinely and truly deplorable people, and although Trump's minions are screaming and wailing about the "political incorrectness" of someone speaking in harsh words, the descriptions were precisely accurate.

What is important to note here is that while Trump himself is a ludicrous and lightweight "clown genius" and entertainer, the horror of the circus that swirls around him is that his hardened core of supporters are angry and ignorant and irrational and even more unpredictable than the candidate himself.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... -combined/

[vivalarevolución]

I think you could find a good portion of Clinton supporters that are not exactly model citizens. The USA certainly has some interesting characters that support every major candidate.

[seebart]

What is important to note here is that while Trump himself is a ludicrous and lightweight "clown genius" and entertainer, the horror of the circus that swirls around him is that his hardened core of supporters are angry and ignorant and irrational and even more unpredictable than the candidate himself.

What is even more disturbing to me is how far he's gotten with this behavior. Months ago before he ended up as the single candidate I thought he will eventually "tame" himself as the candidacy proceeds. Nope, silly behavior as before.

And of course the endless string of quitting campain managers only validate this again:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/20/us/po ... .html?_r=0

[fohat]

Brand new and right on topic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk7dr1GbEs4

Is Putin saying: "Loser"?

[vivalarevolución]

Some more fun articles:

The hard hitting journalists at Cosmo magazine caused Ivanka Trump to hang up the phone. I think she was looking for a press release type interview rather than actual semi-tough questions. Hire these people at NBC: http://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/a3 ... ve-policy/

Oh, and Mark Cuban, a fellow billionaire, explains why he no longer supports Trump and now supports Clinton: https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016 ... ark-cuban/

My favorite quote from the interview:

"I liked Trump’s honesty because it was different and had a chance to change the business of politics. What I didn’t realize he was missing at the time was a complete and utter lack of preparation, knowledge, and common sense.

I made the mistake of assuming that he had to have some interest in learning and keeping up with world events. That he would make the effort to learn what he didn’t know. I obviously was wrong. I can’t say it enough that learning how to learn is one of the greatest skills anyone can have. It’s why I advocate that everyone go to college. I love being challenged and defending my positions and, when I’m wrong, learning from the exchange. It makes me smarter and better as a businessperson. That’s the key difference between us. Trump never takes on the intellectual challenge. He doesn’t even try. He just talks about having a good brain."

[fohat]

I have heard a few "liberals" talk about voting for Gary Johnson, and I can't understand it.

"A list several other positions Johnson supports that most progressives oppose include:

He supports TPP.
He supports fracking.
He opposes any federal policies that would make college more affordable or reduce student debt. In fact, he wants to abolish student loans entirely.
He thinks Citizens United is great.
He doesn't want to raise the minimum wage at all.
He opposes any kind of national health care and wants to repeal Obamacare.
He opposes practically all forms of gun control.
He opposes any government action to address climate change."

[Kurplop]

It looks like Johnson deserves a second look.

[webwit]

That list is compiled by Kevin Drum, who supports Clinton and wants those Johnson votes, yet fails to mention this. You know, what he starts his list with. Another person into propaganda. How cynical is that, that guy tries to play on his readers emotions about TPP and fracking to steal votes for his man, who supports TPP and fracking.

[vivalarevolución]

Just watched the vice presidential with my homeboy Mike Pence and cool dad Tim Kaine. Barely anything said of substance, just mostly attacks on Trump/Clinton with old white guys talking over a woman. I enjoy watching my incompetent governor fumble around in a public arena.

The idea of who wins a debate is completely nonsensical to me when half the stuff said is blatant lies, barely anything of substance is discussed, and it turns into an insult contest. Sure, we can figure out who should be the head of state in an hour and a half. That sounds reasonable. What a dog and pony show.

But people will say that Pence won because he was more controlled and calm and polite, despite his clear bullshit and veneer of a personality. He seemed more likable and probably made people feel better, which is what matters the most in a debate these days, facts are of little consequence anymore. But Pence is so full of obvious shit that I was able to do on-the-spot fact checking for many of his claims as governor of Indiana. Kaine took a page from Trump's book with constant attacks and interruptions, even though he clearly was more knowledgeable and presented more convincing arguments.

Overall, it was a nice dog and pony show for our political entertainment news. Wake me up when the Democrats and Republicans start talking about how they have rigged the system to silence other parties, curate a narrowly focused discussion on non-issues, and continue to swing our dick through the world while citizens at home suffer.

[fohat]

how they have rigged the system to silence other parties,

I don't watch "debates" but I don't think that "the system" has been "rigged" to exclude other parties, but rather that it has evolved to a rigid dichotomy that simply leaves little space for new entries.

And the real problem is that "3rd party candidates" running for president is just pathetic and laughable, unless they truly want to act as a "spoiler" - probably doing the most damage to whoever is closest to them ideologically. The modern exception was George Wallace in 1968 who won several dozen electoral votes without costing Nixon the election.

New parties in the US *MUST* grow organically from the bottom, at the local and state levels, before they can realistically step onto the national stage.

[vivalarevolución]

Yea, the "debates" have envolved into this televised entertainment event marketed towards the lowest common denominator that is an insult to any moderately informed voter. A complete joke. I watched some older debates on YouTube, and even as recent as 2004, the content was more robust. I admit to watching the debates purely for entertainment.

On a positive note, the Indiana governors debate was rather civil and less bullshit with discussion of actual policy ideas. There actually was a discussion of matters that issues and problems that affect the citizens of Indiana. Regardless of who is elected, I suspect they either one will do a better job than Pence. I would like to see a Democratic governor to challenge the conservative Christian Republican unchallenged stronghold on the state government, it's gotten old. The Republicans tend to dodge any questions related to social issues, including treating LGBT and women like first class citizens. The Democrats bankrupted the state The last time they were in charge, but that won't happen again because the Republican legislature has to approve the budget and they will keep spending down.

But national politics have turned into an entertainment sideshow that embarrasses our country on the world stage.

[andrewjoy]

A "debate", hardly. Its a slagging match with both sides dodging answers and bending the truth, or just insulting people and or there supporters.

Why does it have to come to this ?

I have said it before and i will say it again, out of such a large country filled with some of the best minds in the world, they where the best two you could come up with ?

I mean i know i cannot say much considering the mess the UK is in right now but at least Miss May has stepped up and is trying to be fair and do the best for both sides, surprised the hell out of me her being a conservative and all.

[ohaimark]

A few great minds cannot overpower the masses. The masses are pretty damn stupid, so such candidates were inevitable.

Current American culture endorses thoughtlessness and collectivism. It also advertises, falsely, that it is supporting thoughtfulness and individualism. People believe the latter because it's what they want to hear. That's what they're trained to hear.

Edit: there's a lecture at my University on why certain people shouldn't vote. It has some merit.

[vivalarevolución]

A "debate", hardly. Its a slagging match with both sides dodging answers and bending the truth, or just insulting people and or there supporters.

Why does it have to come to this ?

I have said it before and i will say it again, out of such a large country filled with some of the best minds in the world, they where the best two you could come up with ?

It doesn't have to come to this, as our state level governor's debate showed. All the candidates displayed civility and substance to their policy ideas, without resorting to slagging or insults. A lot of commentators says the tone of the race has given them hope. But there was some truth bending and avoiding answers, although not to the scale of the National nonsense.

George Carlin said it best. We get what we deserve and this is the best we can do. When you listen on most of the petty crap that people talk about in person or toss around on social media and Internet forums, you can understand why the candidates usually are morally devoid individuals focusing on petty crap. They reflect how a lot of the voters think and behave. The United States has tens of millions functionally illiterate adults, and many of those that can read choose not to read anything lengthy or challenging. I believe that literacy, regularly using that ability, and discussing/reflecting on what you read is essential to seeing through bullshit, analytical thought, and deciphering suitable arguments. What you read matters, of course, and it's important to be skeptical of anyone making grand claims that they know all or will solve all.

But most of us get our info through TV or short blurbs on the Internet, so we live in this reality where truth and actual meaningful analysis on systematic issues has taken a backseat to ratings and clicks and entertainment. It's feels like a post-postmodernist world at this point, with some of my favorite dystopia novels seeming more real than fiction.

Add all that to the inherent tribalism in our species, and the fear of being judged for doing something different, and you can understand why people continue to support parties and candidates that don't seem to solve anything. As ohaimark said, we are trained to just go along with this system, and don't probe too deeply into the systemactic issues that give us these low quality results.

[seebart]

Well, quite a few developments in recent days, many calling for Trump to quit the race but of course he won't. Not sure where this is going, I found the first TV debate quite entertaining, after these recent developments the coming two will be even more interesting. I read somewhere that one of the two coming debates is like a town-hall setting where the audience can ask questions, that's bound to be fun. Just for the record, I don't like Mrs.Clinton either but she is actually capable of doing the job. This is the single strangest Presidential campain ever IMO, a woman who's husband has been President vs. a colorful buisinessman with a loose mouth. Ahh I love this picture, the good times together...

donald-hillary-800.jpg (302.52 KiB) Viewed 4950 times

Trump defiant as Republicans flee

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/d ... ans-229353