Chinese glorious history and cultural...

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ohaimark
Kingpin

02 Dec 2016, 21:44

And this is what it has resulted in.
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Chyros

02 Dec 2016, 22:01

That's nothing.

Image

IKSLM

03 Dec 2016, 14:13

Holly shit, not a single line makes sense :D

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XMIT
[ XMIT ]

03 Dec 2016, 15:34

Every decade or so a new generation gets a good laugh out of this. I first saw that tag line on chopsticks about 14 years ago. :-P

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Ray

03 Dec 2016, 15:54

Wow Chyros, that one is ridiculous, I like how it goes to 11!
made my day
Last edited by Ray on 03 Dec 2016, 17:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Chyros

03 Dec 2016, 16:46

Ray wrote: Wow Chryos, that one is ridiculous, I like how it goes to 11!
made my day
The first time I saw that thing I was laughing so hard that I was literally on the floor with tears in my eyes xD .

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tentator

03 Dec 2016, 23:33

please.. stop.. rotfl!!!
the best of all is "can not move bowels in the urine the pond"!!!

lolllllllllll

marijan

04 Dec 2016, 15:40

Just a warning guys: do not trust those instructions. I followed everything to the letter and after so many failed attempts the only conclusion is that they do not work.

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fohat
Elder Messenger

04 Dec 2016, 15:43

marijan wrote:
I followed everything to the letter and after so many failed attempts the only conclusion is that they do not work.
When the dissatisfied foot went into the toilet it was unable to have a bowel movement?

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Chyros

04 Dec 2016, 20:15

I like how there's a warning to not "clamor loudly" in the toilet to frighten other people xD .

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y11971alex

10 Dec 2016, 10:19

It's worse than Google translate. I wonder how they managed to produce such an appalling translation.

On a related note, from what is legible of the Chinese portion, the original was badly written Chinese anyway. It's intelligible, but no normal person would ever write like this. It's like trying to write a university text with kindergarten vocabulary, the result of which is clunky, unwieldy, and just qualifies as prose.

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Mr.Nobody

14 Dec 2016, 02:40

y11971alex wrote: It's worse than Google translate. I wonder how they managed to produce such an appalling translation.

On a related note, from what is legible of the Chinese portion, the original was badly written Chinese anyway. It's intelligible, but no normal person would ever write like this. It's like trying to write a university text with kindergarten vocabulary, the result of which is clunky, unwieldy, and just qualifies as prose.
Most teachers even professors in University speak shitty English, even though they are major in English they are supposed to be good at it. On the other hand, those who master English have no interests in doing the translation job neither in teaching...

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Chyros

14 Dec 2016, 03:08

Mr.Nobody wrote:
y11971alex wrote: It's worse than Google translate. I wonder how they managed to produce such an appalling translation.

On a related note, from what is legible of the Chinese portion, the original was badly written Chinese anyway. It's intelligible, but no normal person would ever write like this. It's like trying to write a university text with kindergarten vocabulary, the result of which is clunky, unwieldy, and just qualifies as prose.
Most teachers even professors in University speak shitty English
I've found that among my colleagues at uni, almost none of the native speakers can spell properly, including professors. I know Brits that asked me to check their spelling for them, which feels rather weird xD . I'm a language enthousiast though, so I like learning about stuff like this. Foreigners, I've found, tend to struggle more with grammar than spelling.

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Mr.Nobody

14 Dec 2016, 04:05

Chyros wrote:
Mr.Nobody wrote:
y11971alex wrote: It's worse than Google translate. I wonder how they managed to produce such an appalling translation.

On a related note, from what is legible of the Chinese portion, the original was badly written Chinese anyway. It's intelligible, but no normal person would ever write like this. It's like trying to write a university text with kindergarten vocabulary, the result of which is clunky, unwieldy, and just qualifies as prose.
Most teachers even professors in University speak shitty English
I've found that among my colleagues at uni, almost none of the native speakers can spell properly, including professors. I know Brits that asked me to check their spelling for them, which feels rather weird xD . I'm a language enthousiast though, so I like learning about stuff like this. Foreigners, I've found, tend to struggle more with grammar than spelling.
What's your mother tongue? Don't tell me it isn't English, according to your review videos you have no foreign accent at all at leat to my ears. I am kind of an entheusiast as well, have you watched the video titled "English is bullshit" made by AVGN(Angery video game nerd) ... really funny... Chinese is an analytic language which doesn't have tenses or plural forms or subjunctive mood whatsoever which means words(no matter it's a noun, verb or adjective) don't change forms.To Chinese people English is a complex language the rules are way too comlicated and there are too many exceptions and when you organize a sentence it seems everything(nouns verbs adjectives) is changing all the time which consummes a lot of brain energy...plus, pronounciation is hard to manage...but spelling is a matter of attitude rather than ability. That's why I can't accept native speakers misspell a lot...Some people are just too lazy to make things accurate.

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Mr.Nobody

14 Dec 2016, 04:41

Here is an example on how does it feel speaking Chinese:
Let's say you want to say the following sentences:
Yesterday, I bought 3 apples I ate one of them. Today my friend Jack has the rest two. I feel happy and he feels even happier.

In Chinese it'll be like this:

Yesterday, I buy 3 apple, I eat one of them. Today my friend Jack have the rest two. I feel happy and he feel even happy.

see? verbs nouns adjectives won't change forms and there is no tense reflected by forms of verb. A Chinese knows when a thing happens by paying attention to words like "yesterday" or "today" not by paying attention to words "bought or "buy" ...he knows there are more than one apple mentioned not because you write the word "apple" in plural form “apples” but obviously because there is a "3" in front of it, to Chinese speakers plural form is absolutely redundant which only makes things complicated...He knows Jack is happier not because of the word "happier" but because there is an "even" in front of it.

I hope you guys have an inkling about it now, most Chinese people have this feeling when they are learning English or other Indo-European languages---"Why you guys have to make simple things complicated, we can't manage it, what are those variations for ? Not necessary at all. We can make ourselves understood without those useless variations...western languages are fxxking stupid..."
Last edited by Mr.Nobody on 14 Dec 2016, 05:27, edited 1 time in total.

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micrex22

14 Dec 2016, 04:49

Chyros wrote: I've found that among my colleagues at uni, almost none of the native speakers can spell properly, including professors. I know Brits that asked me to check their spelling for them, which feels rather weird xD . I'm a language enthousiast though, so I like learning about stuff like this. Foreigners, I've found, tend to struggle more with grammar than spelling.
Coincidentally a British coworker sometimes asks for proofing assistance as well. And it could be argued native English speakers suffer from poor grammar constantly, especially with contractions, or things like 'affect / effect'.

There are actually many problems with English for foreigners:
  • Copulae in sentences that are otherwise not extant in most other languages
  • The fact the Latin alphabet was never designed for English sounds
  • The concept of 'to be' being mandatory
There are so many exceptions that you just have to know, for instance; "there's a chicken" versus "I ate some chicken". But we can't say "there's a pig" versus "I ate some pig", pig has to be 'pork' whereas 'chicken' can remain the same.

And of course we haven't even brushed up on the problems with spoken English, such as the infamous ð.

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Chyros

14 Dec 2016, 05:23

Mr.Nobody wrote: What's your mother tongue? Don't tell me it isn't English, according to your review videos you have no foreign accent at all at leat to my ears. I am kind of an entheusiast as well, have you watched the video titled "English is bullshit" made by AVGN(Angery video game nerd) ... really funny... Chinese is an analytic language which doesn't have tenses or plural forms or subjunctive mood whatsoever which means words(no matter it's a noun, verb or adjective) don't change forms.To Chinese people English is a complex language the rules are way too comlicated and there are too many exceptions and when you organize a sentence it seems everything(nouns verbs adjectives) is changing all the time which consummes a lot of brain energy...plus, pronounciation is hard to manage...but spelling is a matter of attitude rather than ability. That's why I can't accept native speakers misspell a lot...Some people are just too lazy to make things accurate.
I'm Dutch. I didn't grow up bilingual, I just learned to speak English out of interest. My four-and-a-half year stay in the UK has actually made my English worse as I've picked up lots of slang and accent bits from British colleagues from all over, so I'm now much harder to understand for international speakers xD .

I think it's precisely the fact that spelling can be learned, while grammar has to be "felt", that foreigners tend to be better at spelling and worse at grammar than natives. While most natives grow up with an instinctive understanding of their language's grammar, there is no real drive to learn perfect spelling other than the obvious language fascism. If you read people's posts, and they consistently confuse there/their/they're or it's/its or otherwise abuse apostrophes, they are almost always natives, I've found. I suspect this is because the use of the different forms is derived from insights and concepts so obvious and fundamental to the language that it is entirely below, and would never have come to the attention of, a native speaker, while a foreigner would have had to consciously learn it. This isn't limited to English either, maost Dutch people I know have embarassingly awful spelling, derived from a fundamental lack of understanding of the concept of how Dutch words are built up, which is now so terrible that almost every other word is fundamentally wrong.

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y11971alex

14 Dec 2016, 06:47

Chinese can also be much more flexible than English in many ways. The lack of formulaic grammatical rules makes it difficult for someone accustomed to the liberty of the Chinese language to conform to stricter English patterns of speech.

I bet nobody knew that Chinese is my native language, right? ;)

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Mr.Nobody

14 Dec 2016, 07:28

y11971alex wrote: Chinese can also be much more flexible than English in many ways. The lack of formulaic grammatical rules makes it difficult for someone accustomed to the liberty of the Chinese language to conform to stricter English patterns of speech.

I bet nobody knew that Chinese is my native language, right? ;)

In fact, I know it by guess...coz I am Chinese hahah....

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y11971alex

14 Dec 2016, 07:41

Mr.Nobody wrote:
y11971alex wrote: Chinese can also be much more flexible than English in many ways. The lack of formulaic grammatical rules makes it difficult for someone accustomed to the liberty of the Chinese language to conform to stricter English patterns of speech.

I bet nobody knew that Chinese is my native language, right? ;)

In fact, I know it by guess...coz I am Chinese hahah....
:o :shock:

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Parjánya

14 Dec 2016, 07:44

I’ve studied a bit of classical Chinese, and I can’t quite understand how you people cope nowadays, using synonyms everywhere; easy things like "I see the dog" now are said like "I see watch the dog hound" thanks to all the homonyms. I know very little Chinese, but Confucius really seems so much easier : o )

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y11971alex

14 Dec 2016, 07:46

Parjánya wrote: I’ve studied a bit of classical Chinese, and I can’t quite understand how you people cope nowadays, using synonyms everywhere; easy things like "I see the dog" now are said like "I see watch the dog hound" thanks to all the homonyms. I know very little Chinese, but Confucius really seems so much easier : o )
Single-word phrases are typically expanded into two-word phrases to make them easier to tell apart from similar-sounding words. Classical Chinese is only easy in written form; if read aloud, it's hardly intelligible.

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Parjánya

14 Dec 2016, 07:51

I feel oddly at home with him, the man was great, and so straightforward it even hurts. The things he said about 禮 seem very close to what some sanskrit texts say also, about being proper, acting in an agreed form so it’s easy for everyone to understand what you mean, all that. But there are sooo many logograms, my memory feels full and fragmented enough already : o ) to read everything in the original text. Huge respect, anyway. My favorite novel of all is 紅樓夢, but I doubt I’ll ever read the original either. Oh well.

About spoken classical Chinese, that’s why by the time they wrote the classics the homonyms didn’t sound the same yet. Chinese had consonants at the end, and their loss caused the tones, tonogenesis (http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4906). So 馬 and 瑪 were quite different, for instance (even if 瑪 has the clue that ‘the precious stone that sounds like 馬’)
Last edited by Parjánya on 14 Dec 2016, 07:56, edited 2 times in total.

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Mr.Nobody

14 Dec 2016, 07:53

I'm Dutch. I didn't grow up bilingual, I just learned to speak English out of interest. My four-and-a-half year stay in the UK has actually made my English worse as I've picked up lots of slang and accent bits from British colleagues from all over, so I'm now much harder to understand for international speakers xD .

I think it's precisely the fact that spelling can be learned, while grammar has to be "felt", that foreigners tend to be better at spelling and worse at grammar than natives. While most natives grow up with an instinctive understanding of their language's grammar, there is no real drive to learn perfect spelling other than the obvious language fascism. If you read people's posts, and they consistently confuse there/their/they're or it's/its or otherwise abuse apostrophes, they are almost always natives, I've found. I suspect this is because the use of the different forms is derived from insights and concepts so obvious and fundamental to the language that it is entirely below, and would never have come to the attention of, a native speaker, while a foreigner would have had to consciously learn it. This isn't limited to English either, maost Dutch people I know have embarassingly awful spelling, derived from a fundamental lack of understanding of the concept of how Dutch words are built up, which is now so terrible that almost every other word is fundamentally wrong.
Me neighter, from middle school until graduation from university English is a must-study course to everybody here and it is underscored very much, nonetheless, most people just couldn't master it even after 1.5 decade of efforts. due to the huge difference between the two languages and terrible teaching methods. But I got into it and couldn't stop since.....

Last year I spent a lot of time studying psychology, from one book I read I knew that language is in fact THE MOST DIFFICULT skill human being has managed to wield, and it's the only tool we use to think, when we think, we talk silently to ourselves right? If a person only knows 2 words "sleep" and "eat", he can't possibly think other things except for sleep and eat, that means how rich your vocabulary is, how accurate you can use words determines how rich and accurate you think. This makes the ability to harness language seem rather important...

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Mr.Nobody

14 Dec 2016, 07:59

Parjánya wrote: I’ve studied a bit of classical Chinese, and I can’t quite understand how you people cope nowadays, using synonyms everywhere; easy things like "I see the dog" now are said like "I see watch the dog hound" thanks to all the homonyms. I know very little Chinese, but Confucius really seems so much easier : o )
Classical Chinese is synthetic language, modern Chinese is analytic. Even for a learned native Chinese, Classic Chinese is rather difficult to learn let alone to master, but it's immeasurably beatiful... The unique characteristics of Chinese language make it a rather perfect tool for writing peoms and rhymes and jokes.
Last edited by Mr.Nobody on 14 Dec 2016, 08:16, edited 3 times in total.

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Parjánya

14 Dec 2016, 08:02

The thing I envy the most is how really justified your texts can get : o ), even in poetry.

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Mr.Nobody

14 Dec 2016, 08:11

Parjánya wrote: The thing I envy the most is how really justified your texts can get : o ), even in poetry.
the book <<红楼梦>> is hard to read because it uses synonyms and homophones to imply figure's destiny or relationships among figures, their names, the little things they use or possess, the trinkets in their rooms all have implications about something; it's impossible to be translated into other languages without losing its undertone. It's not only a novel it's a book of myth, a kind of revelation, however, I won't recommend it to anybody at all, unless he is deeply into Traditional Culture and a master of language and has a lot of time...:D

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y11971alex

14 Dec 2016, 08:22

Mr.Nobody wrote:
Parjánya wrote: I’ve studied a bit of classical Chinese, and I can’t quite understand how you people cope nowadays, using synonyms everywhere; easy things like "I see the dog" now are said like "I see watch the dog hound" thanks to all the homonyms. I know very little Chinese, but Confucius really seems so much easier : o )
Classical Chinese is synthetic language, modern Chinese is analytic. Even for a learned native Chinese, Classic Chinese is rather difficult to learn let along to master, but it's immeasurably beatiful... The unique characteristics of Chinese language make it a rather perfect tool for writing peoms and rhymes and jokes.
I don't think Classical Chinese was a synthetic language, which evokes of other like Greek and Sanskrit. Yes, Classical Chinese had fluid word order, but there were few "inflexions" that characterized synthetic languages.

Classical Chinese is a must for anyone who wishes to write with an eye to style, since pure modern spoken Mandarin simply is unserviceable for literary purposes. Almost all set phrases are in Classical Chinese, and tossing in a few clauses written in the older language is considered good stylistic practice and useful for punctuating important statements. But this must be done with moderation, since an excess of classical construction would interrupt the flow of reading.

A challenging text for me would be something like this: http://ctext.org/shang-shu/pan-geng-i/zh

I can get a basic idea of what's being conveyed, but without a dictionary I don't know the meaning of each word used.

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Mr.Nobody

14 Dec 2016, 09:21

y11971alex wrote:
Mr.Nobody wrote:
Parjánya wrote: I’ve studied a bit of classical Chinese, and I can’t quite understand how you people cope nowadays, using synonyms everywhere; easy things like "I see the dog" now are said like "I see watch the dog hound" thanks to all the homonyms. I know very little Chinese, but Confucius really seems so much easier : o )
Classical Chinese is synthetic language, modern Chinese is analytic. Even for a learned native Chinese, Classic Chinese is rather difficult to learn let along to master, but it's immeasurably beatiful... The unique characteristics of Chinese language make it a rather perfect tool for writing peoms and rhymes and jokes.
I don't think Classical Chinese was a synthetic language, which evokes of other like Greek and Sanskrit. Yes, Classical Chinese had fluid word order, but there were few "inflexions" that characterized synthetic languages.

Classical Chinese is a must for anyone who wishes to write with an eye to style, since pure modern spoken Mandarin simply is unserviceable for literary purposes. Almost all set phrases are in Classical Chinese, and tossing in a few clauses written in the older language is considered good stylistic practice and useful for punctuating important statements. But this must be done with moderation, since an excess of classical construction would interrupt the flow of reading.

A challenging text for me would be something like this: http://ctext.org/shang-shu/pan-geng-i/zh

I can get a basic idea of what's being conveyed, but without a dictionary I don't know the meaning of each word used.
You are right...It's a pleaure to meet someone here who is Chinese and an expert on Lanuage.

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fohat
Elder Messenger

14 Dec 2016, 14:12

I am a native and only English-speaker and I agree with the abysmal state of spelling and punctuation these days, which is exacerbated by mechanisms like Twitter. I was educated 2 generations ago and our classes were far more structured than today's, and our teachers more diligent. My wife is a magazine editor and I have read thousands of books, so language is supremely important to me.

My current reading material is probably the best book I have ever read on the subject of writing (and thinking and speaking) in English, it is a small book called "The Sense of Style" (and that is "sense" as in "the sense of hearing") by Steven Pinker.

I agree with Tom that grammar has to be "felt" intuitively and that it is a nightmare for a non-native speaker.

Recently I heard a fascinating discussion of adjectives and the importance of their order. For example, "the three pristine old small sleek red Italian sports cars" makes perfect sense while "the sports pristine sleek red small three Italian old cars" sounds like gibberish. The study showed that English-speakers intuitively expect adjectives to fall in this order:

1 Quantity
2 Quality
3 Size
4 Age
5 Shape
6 Color
7 Proper adjective (eg nationality or origin)
8 Purpose

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