Vintage Games in RGB, Broadcast Monitors and Sexy CRTs

andrewjoy

08 Feb 2017, 14:25

Well i have finally after much deliberation decided to take the plunge into vintage console games.

Now firstly i would like to say i am a PC gamer at heart, i love PC and i love all the retro remakes and emulators on PC, however nothing comes close to original hardware for that authentic look.

I have also given up on consoles after and including the PS3 / Xbox 360 era, that are just slow shit PCs with expensive games and horrible online services. I want to play on real console again!

Ever played a game on an emulator or a recent release of an old game on steam or the retro arcade on your console and think hmm this looks waaaayyy worse than i remember. Or have you hooked up your old Amega or Acorn to your 4k 40 inch display and think to yourself , wow this looks terrible?

Fun fact , its does look way worse than you remember, they where never intended to be displayed on modern pixel perfect displays , they where not designed to be up-scaled it brings out all of the flaws in the games. Not to mention the lag up-scaling old games can add as well as glitches. Some games even don't work correctly as they exploited quirks of a CRT to get better pictures, for example most displays wrongly identify a 240p signal from a console as 480i and totally scullfuck the image, samsungs , especially slightly older ones and plasmas are better at this , they usually handle the signal correctly.

Even if you kept your old TV or have a CRT PC monitor your still going to get problems, most TVs don't properly support RGB or component video, in Europe we have it good as some later TVs had full RGB scart. So , grab a good 4:3 CRT TV and hook up your beloved Megadrive via a scart to your TV and your good to go right ? Well yes but what if there was a way to get even better images from your old console.

Enter the Broadcast Video Monitor!

This is mine. ( well it will be when i go collect it)
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Most people go for the mighty Sony BVM-20F1E and i would love one but they are A: Expensive as hell. B: they have 900 TV lines and in my view this is too much as this makes the scan lines far too thick, it also uses a aperture grille and in my view this is not as authentic as a shadow mask for that more arcade type look. I would love a sony and will get one one day but for now this will do.

Now, what are BVMs?

BVM is a Sony term for a broadcast quality monitor. They where used in TV studios and the likes to monitor , well stuff that needs to be monitored , camera feeds live broadcasts and the likes. To do this job properly they had to be built to last and have an amazing picture with multiple options to calibrate and configure the display.

Similar are Presentation/Preview Video monitors. They are not quite as good as a BVM and where used for editing in fancy 80s and 90s board rooms and for art installs to show video content , we still use Sony PVMs in work to this day to show video on some exhibitions.

Both have real RGB and YPbPr video inputs as well as a host of other cool shit like SDI and S-Video, you could also connect composite video as well i guess if you want to be a dirty peasant. The main difference is the number of calibration options and the quality of the components and the tube used. If it helps think of PVMs as a Model m and BVMs as a Model F , hell its a BEAMSPRING!

Now you will need some way to get your signal into the Monitor but thats a subject for another day. I will however leave you with this little spoiler
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For now i would like to see who else thinks old CRTs are still cool as shit !
Does anyone else like to pay old consoles ?
Possibly you have a real arcade cab in your mancave ?
Last edited by andrewjoy on 08 Feb 2017, 14:28, edited 1 time in total.

andrewjoy

08 Feb 2017, 14:25

[Reserved}

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Topre Enthusiast

08 Feb 2017, 14:43

Man what funny timing...just got into this myself.
I have two PVMs (a 14 and a 20) and about a month ago bought a Sega Astro City that I've been slowly restoring. We're lucky to have Jomac here too so A-grade tubes from CRTs that have been dumped can be re-purposed with a chassis and thrown into a cabinet.

Engicoder

08 Feb 2017, 14:52

Holy input panels!! That is amazing.
I am a CRT fan as well. I have built/rebuilt several 1980's arcade machines and multicades and I would never put an LCD in one. The graphics of the classic games were designed with the pixel bleed of CRTs in mind. Without the bleed they look terrible. The use of high resolution IPS panels and "CRT filters" that simulate the bleed have improved greatly, but still do not have parity with a real CRT.

For the record:
- Favorite mainstream game: Galaga
- Favorite obscure game: Crazy Climber

andrewjoy

08 Feb 2017, 14:55

I need to get into arcade too , but it's sourcing a good tunbe that will work with a universal chassis that is hard . I will build a mame cab at some point but i think I will use the loverly iiyama 22inch VGA monitor I have In the loft, unless I can find a good tube for the universal chassis you can buy
Last edited by andrewjoy on 08 Feb 2017, 15:24, edited 1 time in total.

Engicoder

08 Feb 2017, 15:15

Building a cabinet is a fun project and is relatively simple. It shouldn't be that tough to adapt existing plans to fit your 22.

andrewjoy

08 Feb 2017, 15:25

Do you have any idea where to look for a decent tube ( salvaged form a monitor or TV or just a bare tube) that will work with something like this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Repla ... 0966957215.

Apparently older TVs would work but all the ones i see are more modern "flat" CRTs

Engicoder

08 Feb 2017, 17:37

What size are you looking for?

andrewjoy

08 Feb 2017, 17:48

around 20 would be good , i think thats about the right size for a arcade 4:3

Apparently Toshiba make some loverly tubes

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

08 Feb 2017, 19:02

andrewjoy wrote: Ever played a game on an emulator or a recent release of an old game on steam or the retro arcade on your console and think hmm this looks waaaayyy worse than i remember. Or have you hooked up your old Amega or Acorn to your 4k 40 inch display and think to yourself , wow this looks terrible?
Yes, but since I know what this is about and I remember the arcades I know what the deal is. Getting myself a CRT is just too insane when I think of how many keyboards I have in my basement. Fact is no LCD panel or other modern display can reproduce or emulate the CRT "image feel". One of my other hobbies...
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andrewjoy wrote: Possibly you have a real arcade cab in your mancave ?
I wish. :roll:

http://www.mameworld.info

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elecplus

08 Feb 2017, 20:33

So besides clicky keyboards, you guys are also into retro gaming? I remember buying my youngest son a Nintendo 64 for his 10th birthday. I never had enough coordination to even play Mario Brothers!

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

08 Feb 2017, 20:36

elecplus wrote: So besides clicky keyboards, you guys are also into retro gaming?
Yes! :P
elecplus wrote: I remember buying my youngest son a Nintendo 64 for his 10th birthday.
Well I'm sure he enjoyed it! ;)

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elecplus

08 Feb 2017, 20:59

With the difference between NTSC and PAL scan rates, US retro gaming machines won't work overseas, will they?

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

08 Feb 2017, 21:05

elecplus wrote: With the difference between NTSC and PAL scan rates, US retro gaming machines won't work overseas, will they?
That is correct. There are work arounds for the consoles, I know some collectors that have Japanese machines.

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elecplus

08 Feb 2017, 21:09

Too bad! I have an OLD original Atari "Video Computer System" with 19 cartridges that I am willing to part with... Does not say Atari 2600 on it, I think this one is older.

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

08 Feb 2017, 21:11

elecplus wrote: Too bad! I have an OLD original Atari "Video Computer System" with 19 cartridges that I am willing to part with... Does not say Atari 2600 on it, I think this one is older.
Find out exactly what it is, I'm sure you'll find a buyer on your side of the pond! There is a huge market for old consoles, way more popular than vintage keyboards!

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elecplus

08 Feb 2017, 21:20

Model CX-2600A on the back.

andrewjoy

08 Feb 2017, 22:43

elecplus wrote: With the difference between NTSC and PAL scan rates, US retro gaming machines won't work overseas, will they?
NTSC: 525 TV lines , 60htz
PAL: 625 TV lines , 50htz

The are different frequency to put them in line with the local AC phase.

Pal has slightly better colour too.

PAL gets a bad rap from vintage gamers as they say its somehow worse but this is not a problem with PAL itself but with the way games where converted to pal by lazy devs.

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Mr.Nobody

05 Mar 2017, 04:42

I recommend some Youtube Channels and videos in case some guys don't know them yet...
Videos:
Spoiler:
Channels in no order:
CRTcade
phonedork
the obsolete geek
spacehamster
retroware
Tanru nomad
nostalgia nerd
modern vintage gamer
LGR
Dan Wood
retrogamervx
vwestlife


Personally I won't plunge into this thing, but I like watching people doing it. Retro stuff epecially those concern hardwares appeals to me greatly...

edit:
Fxxk, how can we forget the Angery Video Game Nerd's channel: Cinemassacre

andrewjoy

06 Mar 2017, 10:44

i am already subbed to 3 of them :) i have more i can list watch this space

jpkiwigeek ( more vintage computers than games but fucking cool)

mylifeingaming
retroswim
rgbrob
shane mcretro ( does not upload much anymore)
The 8-bit guy

not related to retro games or tech but

michaelcthulhu :because huge swords
mikeselectricalstuff :watch it nuf said
john ward :beacuse watching a well spoken Englishman do electrical work is amazing
rag 'n' bone brown :woodwork form recycled wood .

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Mr.Nobody

09 Mar 2017, 05:24

Thanks I will expand my subscription list, some of them are already in it, like the 8-bit guy/keys...One of my major entertainment is to watch those channels...They are PORN to me...kind of.:)

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Mr.Nobody

09 Mar 2017, 10:51

Were it not for the EMR issue, I would collect some Trinitron myself...

andrewjoy

09 Mar 2017, 10:54

I caved and got a second screen !
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It has had a new tube fitted in 2009 so its as good as you are going to get for less than 150 quid.

The other screen is amazing but there is a loud buzzing coming from the PSU area of the monitor on certain screens. i don't think its the flyback as its on the other side of the case i am guessing bad caps causing coil whine but i could be wrong.

Anyone experienced in CRT PSU issues ?

codemonkeymike

11 Mar 2017, 01:51

Just picked myself up the big Daddy Sony BVM. It is beautiful a d produces some nice thick scan lines with 240p content.
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Topre Enthusiast

11 Mar 2017, 02:12

Dayum...nice
How many hours has it done?

codemonkeymike

11 Mar 2017, 05:11

20k Its quite fresh. I think it may need a bit of calibration though

andrewjoy

11 Mar 2017, 14:38

20k is nothing for one of them sony tubes.


so nice !

codemonkeymike

11 Mar 2017, 16:37

Do any of y'all know a tiny rack that would be able to hold this monster about a foot or two off the ground. I have the rack mounts, just not the space on my cabinets.

andrewjoy

13 Mar 2017, 10:33

ebay makes some MDF racks that you could paint ,

Not sure how many U the monitor is

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/14u-UNIT-19-I ... MwKGt_kz8w


Or you could lackrack it

https://wiki.eth0.nl/index.php/LackRack

andrewjoy

13 Mar 2017, 15:25

I picked up another toy

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Extron-RGB-16 ... fresh=true

what i hope is it will allow me to output RGBs from my PC , my video card should support DVI-A , this can use a passive converter to RGBHV over DSUB this little extron box will allow me to output RGBs to my BVMs.

This way for the consoles i don't have i can emulate them and put them on the BVMs

Fingers crossed the 160 can do what i think it can as i have not see it anywhere on RGB forms only the 200 series , but from the specs its outputs and inputs are the same.

Now i am just with crossed fingers that windows will let me output at 240p or 480i

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