Any gearheads on Deskthority?

User avatar
vivalarevolución
formerly prdlm2009

21 Dec 2017, 17:43

So does anybody around here drive a diesel car? The market in the USA for diesel cars is very small (and even smaller since the VW debacle), but I’ve been looking at the Chevy Cruse diesel. Gets about the same mileage as a hybrid, but with better power and no batteries. I’m intrigued.

User avatar
vometia
irritant

23 Dec 2017, 01:37

Mine's a diesel: they're pretty common in the UK as they pushed everybody into buying diesels before deciding that it's completely evil. :D I actually rather like it; doesn't rev as high as a petrol engine but as it's a six-speed auto it doesn't really matter. Chugs a bit when idling as they all do but once you're going it's no noisier than any other car I've been in. Can't speak for the fuel economy, I don't do a lot of mileage these days and I tend to be rather lead-footed when driving anyway!

User avatar
Khers

23 Dec 2017, 08:59

We have a similar situation in Sweden, so I'm driving a diesel as well. Definitely frugal but it sounds like a tractor.

In the wake of dieselgate, the disparity between what the consumers crave (cheap, long range EVs) and what car manufacturers offer is huge. If I was in the market for a car today, I'm not sure what type of vehicle I'd pick, but given the recent tax increases and diesel prohibition in city centers, I'd be hesitant to pick up a diesel. With that said, I don't know what the general attitude towards diesels is like in the US, but since most manufacturers are pulling their diesel cars from the market, I can't see how it would be any better.

User avatar
seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

23 Dec 2017, 13:07

Khers wrote: In the wake of dieselgate, the disparity between what the consumers crave (cheap, long range EVs) and what car manufacturers offer is huge. If I was in the market for a car today, I'm not sure what type of vehicle I'd pick, but given the recent tax increases and diesel prohibition in city centers, I'd be hesitant to pick up a diesel. With that said, I don't know what the general attitude towards diesels is like in the US, but since most manufacturers are pulling their diesel cars from the market, I can't see how it would be any better.
What you call "dieselgate" is the single biggest fraud in the history of car manufacturing. What VW and others have pulled off is astounding to put it mildly.

Polecat

23 Dec 2017, 21:55

Khers wrote: We have a similar situation in Sweden, so I'm driving a diesel as well. Definitely frugal but it sounds like a tractor.

In the wake of dieselgate, the disparity between what the consumers crave (cheap, long range EVs) and what car manufacturers offer is huge. If I was in the market for a car today, I'm not sure what type of vehicle I'd pick, but given the recent tax increases and diesel prohibition in city centers, I'd be hesitant to pick up a diesel. With that said, I don't know what the general attitude towards diesels is like in the US, but since most manufacturers are pulling their diesel cars from the market, I can't see how it would be any better.
Here in the US the smog (and inspection) laws vary from state to state, and in some cases (California...) county to county. Diesels in California are now subject to smog inspections as gasoline engines have been for decades, which means a visual check as well as an exhaust sniffer. Manufacturers are required to warranty smog parts for ten years, so if it doesn't pass it's on them to fix it. If they can't (or won't) it becomes a legal mess, and in the case of VW they'll likely have to buy them back in bulk. Details on that are still to be seen, but nobody is in a hurry to buy a diesel at this point in time.

In addition to that, as of January 1 the gas tax here in California gets bumped up once again, as do the registration fees. Typically there's an overreaction to these things, with everyone running in circles like ants on a hot skillet. Sales of hybrids and shitbox economy cars will spike briefly, gas prices will drop a few cents, and folks will be back to huge SUVs by the end of spring.

User avatar
vivalarevolución
formerly prdlm2009

25 Dec 2017, 23:05

Khers wrote: We have a similar situation in Sweden, so I'm driving a diesel as well. Definitely frugal but it sounds like a tractor.

In the wake of dieselgate, the disparity between what the consumers crave (cheap, long range EVs) and what car manufacturers offer is huge. If I was in the market for a car today, I'm not sure what type of vehicle I'd pick, but given the recent tax increases and diesel prohibition in city centers, I'd be hesitant to pick up a diesel. With that said, I don't know what the general attitude towards diesels is like in the US, but since most manufacturers are pulling their diesel cars from the market, I can't see how it would be any better.
I think the general attitude towards diesels in the US is that most people don't even know they exist as an option for passenger vehicles. Other barriers for diesel in the US are price (diesel usually is more expensive than typical petrol) and long-held incorrect stereotypes about diesel (it doesn't work in the winter!). Yea, there are plenty of consumer level pickup trucks and heavy duty commercial trucks that have diesel engines, but the diesel car market always was thin and is even thinner with the VW scandal. The German automakers were pretty much the only manufacturers that offered diesel cars in the US, while the Big 3 have floated a few models here and there. Chevrolet is now testing the market with a few models at the moment (Cruze sedan and Equinox SUV), with engine tech pulled from their international ventures.

Consumers in the USA mostly crave SUVs of all shapes and sizes, and cheap gas has encouraged those buying habits. People think they need the space, high clearance, and all wheel drive of SUVs for various manufactured reasons (they actually don't need SUVs for their use case), when they would be completely fine with a hatchback or van with FWD for most situations, and snow tires for the winter. Like Polecat said, some change in price or policy might lead to a surge in hybrids and compact cars, but people inevitably return to the SUVs, and almost nobody is buying a diesel.

And now that Consumer Reports is showing that the recent update of the Chevy Cruze has a whole host of reliability issues, I might be off the diesel kick for the moment. There was talk of a Mazda CX-5 is a diesel flavor, but that hasn't made it to the shores yet.

User avatar
vivalarevolución
formerly prdlm2009

25 Dec 2017, 23:08

This is what is offered in the US at the moment:

https://www.dieselforum.org/diesel-driv ... in-the-u-s

User avatar
twinrotor

26 Dec 2017, 21:29

We have very little selection of diesels in factory form in the USDM. Been like this for years with all imports and even domestic manufactures (Fords/GM/MOPAR). Most of it stems from emission compliance, not hate for diesels or ignorance. Since the requirement of all commercial vehicles run on low sulfur diesel, and now DEF, its only gotten worse. Then you have the idiots over at VW pulling their shenanigans by fudging numbers, which doesn't help at all. Emissions are under even more scrutiny now than they were in 1973/1979...

The rotary or Wankle is another example. Mazda stopped importing the RX7 in 1994 for this reason. It carried on till 2002 in the rest of the world. Mazda had to raise the price of the cars so much, due to all the extra emissions added to USDM cars, that it made it almost impossible to sell in the USDM. A 1994 RX7 sold for the same price as a ZR1 Corvette of the same year! The RX8 saw a similar fate, with horrible HP ratings and poor reliability due to, once again, emission regulations.

Even cars like the Fiats are bastardized by Chrysler in Mexico before we get them. Neither the engine or transmission(s) in the US FIat 500 is offered anywhere else in the world, and its the only option! Look in a European catalog and you'll see five engine options and multiple transmission options.

I worked as a mechanic for around 25 years before my body said no more! I now work on computers, as it was my first love any way :)

User avatar
vometia
irritant

27 Dec 2017, 15:49

I suppose I'm surprised at the lack of diesel-powered Fords in the US, I'm quite impressed with their Duratorq engine in my car: 140bhp from two litres seems pretty reasonable and I (perhaps naively) assume that the emissions aren't excessively dreadful as it gets through its yearly test without any unpleasantness. Having said that, the car tax is now emissions-based in the UK and ours isn't cheap.

I'm not surprised about the whole emissions fiasco though: what does surprise me is how come diesels became such a mascot for the green movement for so long, even as a kid I could've told anyone that they were dirty and smelly.

User avatar
seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

16 Jan 2018, 10:02

Great off-topic story for this thread:
Found: the real Bullitt Mustang that Steve McQueen tried (and failed) to buy
https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos ... al-mcqueen#

User avatar
Blaise170
ALPS キーボード

14 Feb 2018, 17:06

Once I moved to Boston and had established myself in the area better I bought a 2006 Lexus IS250 AWD. I bought a separate set of Enkei wheels and threw summer tires on them as seen below, and then took the trashed (read: rusty and peeling) OEM wheels and put winters on it. I was able to drive through that snow with the AWD and winter tires supporting it.

Image
Image

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The US diesel market is also influenced by the engines that domestic manufacturers make. Most diesels are designed for towing power (i.e. pickups) and because consumers aren't asking for diesel, the big players like Ford have no reason to design an engine for smaller autos. Also the price is typically higher than petrol so it's a further reason to not produce them.

Decommissioned government autos (police sedans, etc.) are a common sight on US roads as they can be bought for extremely cheap at auction and parts are even cheaper. Crown Vics built by Ford were the auto of choice for police around the country (and indeed most of North America) for decades and are still in use even now. Ford just recently stopped production of the Crown Vic and are now producing the Ford Police Interceptor Sedan and Police Interceptor Utility (SUV). As some trivia, almost every taxi in the US is an old police car because of the cost. Notice the push bar on the taxi below as compared to police:

Image
Image

I actually was considering buying a 2016 Ford Police Interceptor Sedan, complete with pushbar and side-light. It's basically a Ford Taurus with police interceptor engine and AWD. It had 60K miles and was selling for only $10,000. But, it was extremely heavy and I didn't want to spend the time and money to freshen up the interior. Instead, I bought my Lexus IS250 AWD and have been driving it for a little over a year. This is what I was considering (minus the decals obviously), alongside the Ford PI Utility for your info.

Image
Image

User avatar
twinrotor

26 Feb 2018, 20:35

Wow, an actual turbo AWD Taurus Interceptor? Departments here skimp with the FWD non boosted version. They still have the armor and rubermaid interior. However, most officers prefer the SUV. Id agree as a former LEO. Duty belts and the Taurus or the newer 9C1 Caprice are very uncomfortable for even small guys. They use quite a few Tahoes here as well as the Ford SUV. BTW, did you drive a civllian AWD turbo Taurus? They are not bad, but too exspensive for what it is

User avatar
Blaise170
ALPS キーボード

26 Feb 2018, 20:49

I thought all of the new PI Sedans (Taurus) were AWD? Google tells me no but that's a bit odd, why skimp on the price for something so potentially useful in the line of duty? AWD is especially helpful here in the Northeast where we get literal feet of snow at times. Most police here drive the Utility though, I rarely ever see the Sedan. Here is our state police:

Image
Image

Either way, I haven't driven the civilian model (Taurus SHO), only the PIS. The PIS is pretty nice, but once all of the stuff is ripped out there is a bit of stuff to fix up to make it feel nice again. That, and the fact that it is extremely heavy as a car turned me off it a bit.

User avatar
twinrotor

26 Feb 2018, 20:58

Yeah, its a cheaper option. They are few and far between SUVs. Our staties use Chargers, Tahoes and unmarked Challengers. They are V8 cars, but there are 6cly local Chargers serving as prowlers as well. Our city has mostly Exploders and one or two FWD Taurus and two 6cyl Caprices lol Cheap bastards

User avatar
Blaise170
ALPS キーボード

26 Feb 2018, 21:08

My old state (KY) police have finally moved to Chargers, though they used to drive the ubiquitous Crown Vics. Long ago they even used to drive Mustangs. :lol:

Image

User avatar
twinrotor

26 Feb 2018, 21:12

We never had the Mustang, but we did have 93 up Camaros. They were even 6 speed cars. Would only have stripe and badge on passenger fender/doors. They still do it with both Chargers and Challengers, with "normal" colors

User avatar
twinrotor

26 Feb 2018, 21:14

Image

User avatar
Luna
Alt255

27 Feb 2018, 00:17

I wouldn't go diesel if I were you.

Here in (Western in any case) Europe they started to ban diesels from 10 years old on in some cities and taxes on the vehicles and diesel are rapidly increasing.
Everybody is selling their diesels (while they were the hype 15 years ago and everybody sold their gasolines then) and hardly any new ones get sold the change was amazing in the last big car fair. Second hand ones go for peanuts.
I woiuldn't be surpirsed if overstock cars make it to the States as a new rage and overstock engines make it into US cars. The consumer gets screwed as usual.

A diesel has higher torque while a gasoline has more horsepower.Both are nice to have but a diesel doesn't run as smooth. Diesel have better fuel economy indeed but are less fun driving.
As unknown as diesel is in the US, I wouldn't be surprised if anti-freeze additives aren't mixed in already at the gas station. So if you have cold winters you should add that stuff else your fule lines freeze up.
Diesel engines are more expensive (that might very quicly change) because they last longer. Don't expect you 4 cylinder diesel to last longer than a 6 in line Beemer or US V8 Hemi though, they last longer than small gasoline engines, that's all.

I sold my diesel 2 years ago because we saw it coming here. Had to sell my last gasoline cheap because diesel was the fashion all the sudden before that so I was keeping an eye out.
Still have an old wreck that runs on diesel as well but if I go into a big city with that one I get a ticket (150 or 180€ I believe), they check the license plates with cameras.

So, with the much cheaper gasoline in the US, I sure wouldn't hesitate and get me a nice V8 Hemi! :)

User avatar
Mattr567

03 Mar 2018, 06:38

This thread exists? Cool!

I have a Audi B5 A4 1.8T manual. Lowered on Eibach springs with Bilstein Sports, BBS RC wheels, tune, clutch, exhaust etc whole bunch of stuff :lol:

Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
vivalarevolución
formerly prdlm2009

11 Mar 2018, 03:09

Luna wrote: I wouldn't go diesel if I were you.

Here in (Western in any case) Europe they started to ban diesels from 10 years old on in some cities and taxes on the vehicles and diesel are rapidly increasing.
Everybody is selling their diesels (while they were the hype 15 years ago and everybody sold their gasolines then) and hardly any new ones get sold the change was amazing in the last big car fair. Second hand ones go for peanuts.
I woiuldn't be surpirsed if overstock cars make it to the States as a new rage and overstock engines make it into US cars. The consumer gets screwed as usual.

A diesel has higher torque while a gasoline has more horsepower.Both are nice to have but a diesel doesn't run as smooth. Diesel have better fuel economy indeed but are less fun driving.
As unknown as diesel is in the US, I wouldn't be surprised if anti-freeze additives aren't mixed in already at the gas station. So if you have cold winters you should add that stuff else your fule lines freeze up.
Diesel engines are more expensive (that might very quicly change) because they last longer. Don't expect you 4 cylinder diesel to last longer than a 6 in line Beemer or US V8 Hemi though, they last longer than small gasoline engines, that's all.

I sold my diesel 2 years ago because we saw it coming here. Had to sell my last gasoline cheap because diesel was the fashion all the sudden before that so I was keeping an eye out.
Still have an old wreck that runs on diesel as well but if I go into a big city with that one I get a ticket (150 or 180€ I believe), they check the license plates with cameras.

So, with the much cheaper gasoline in the US, I sure wouldn't hesitate and get me a nice V8 Hemi! :)
Thanks for the advice. I think diesels are going to be run out by hybrids and plug-in hybrids in the States soon enough. The prices for the aforementioned are just too competitive and diesel does not have a great reputation, thanks to the price and VW scandal.

User avatar
JP!

17 Mar 2018, 20:48

I used to drive an 2004 Crown Vic police interceptor. It was black and white with the partition included. It was fun to drive.

Now I am thinking about getting something a bit smaller. It's a lightweight, turbocharged Miata basically setup for track or street use.
miata.jpg
miata.jpg (61.11 KiB) Viewed 750 times
Last edited by JP! on 17 Mar 2018, 20:51, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Myoth

17 Mar 2018, 20:51

JP! wrote: I used to drive an 2004 Crown Vic police interceptor. It was black and white with the partition included. It was fun to drive.

Now I am thinking about getting something a bit smaller.
miata.jpg
didn't you want a Corvette ? :?:

User avatar
JP!

17 Mar 2018, 20:52

Myoth wrote:
JP! wrote: I used to drive an 2004 Crown Vic police interceptor. It was black and white with the partition included. It was fun to drive.

Now I am thinking about getting something a bit smaller.
miata.jpg
didn't you want a Corvette ? :?:
Haha, Yes! Those are so expensive.

User avatar
JP!

17 Mar 2018, 20:59

Corvettes are very nice but rarely do drivers use them to their potential. So a base Miata has like 100 or Horsepower to the wheels which is fine since they are so light and a corvette lets say has like 400. The Miatas are basically bigger go-karts. The one I am looking at with modifications has closer to 200 horsepower with turbo so this thing should be fun for spirited daily driving with good gas mileage and can drive it on a track on the weekends.

User avatar
Luna
Alt255

17 Mar 2018, 21:11

Check the Abarth 124 Spider, based on the 2017 Miata chassis but with Fiat bodywork and upgraded engine. I test drove one, great little car.
And of course it’s RWD, not WRD! ;P

User avatar
FXT
XT

17 Mar 2018, 21:19

I vote Suzuki Cappuccino for the real street legal go-kart experience. Or give MR2s a shot, I've had 2 NA Miatas and an AW11 MR2 and the MR2 was my favorite by far.

User avatar
Luna
Alt255

17 Mar 2018, 21:23

FXT wrote: I vote Suzuki Cappuccino for the real street legal go-kart experience. Or give MR2s a shot, I've had 2 NA Miatas and an AW11 MR2 and the MR2 was my favorite by far.
MR is mid-engine, no wonder you liked it.
For go-kart experience I vote for the Mini John Cooperworks.

Post Reply

Return to “Off-topic”