Unpopular keyboard opinions

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snacksthecat
✶✶✶✶

01 Dec 2018, 02:43

A lot of us have differing views when it comes to keyboards. What's comfortable to some is garbage to others.

I figured we need an unpopular opinions thread.

I'll kick it off:

Rubber domes provide the best tactility.

What is your unpopular opinion?

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Muirium
µ

01 Dec 2018, 09:40

snacksthecat wrote: Rubber domes provide the best tactility.
Agreed. Domes vary, but the best of them have tactility that’s sublime: an S curve, not a trapdoor or a sticky bump. Mind, this is the Topre fan club opinion stated without their name!

Beamspring is the one (no rubber, no dome) switch I know that approaches Topre in its succulent, swingy tactility. Then it clicks!
snacksthecat wrote: What is your unpopular opinion?
I don’t like lock lights. Light shining up at me from the keyboard is much too irritating. Fortunately, I hardly use caps lock (and num lock is very almost useless, while scroll lock is truly useless) so they’re seldom on, even in the boards which have them. A nice indicator can look pretty, but I’m always happier when it’s off!

Don’t even get me started on backlighting.

Findecanor

01 Dec 2018, 10:41

snacksthecat wrote: Rubber domes provide the best tactility.
Yes! And without the tactile function introducing any scratchiness or noise.
I have said for years that I would like to see a switch that has a rubber dome (or sleeve) and a coiled spring in parallel — the dome for tactility and the spring for gentle cushioning after actuation.
Muirium wrote: I don’t like lock lights.
Hey, these can't be "unpopular" opinions if we all agree! :lol:
I don't use locking keys and I don't bother to install any LEDs in my builds.

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hansichen

01 Dec 2018, 11:49

Muirium wrote:
snacksthecat wrote: What is your unpopular opinion?
I don’t like lock lights. Light shining up at me from the keyboard is much too irritating. Fortunately, I hardly use caps lock (and num lock is very almost useless, while scroll lock is truly useless) so they’re seldom on, even in the boards which have them. A nice indicator can look pretty, but I’m always happier when it’s off!

Don’t even get me started on backlighting.
I have to agree. I'm one of the stupid people who buys some vintage cherry boards cause they have rare-ish windowed caps and then never uses them cause I'd never use indicators on my board. I don't even have a caps lock key and with numlock, well, I guess everyone on a fullsize board has numlock enabled, do we really need to have a LED for that all the time?


Another unpopular opinion: too much tactility is bad. Sony BKE domes, holy pandas and similar switches suck. They give me such a hard bottom out that my fingers hurt when typing.

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ThePillenwerfer

01 Dec 2018, 14:57

The nav-keys between the Enter button and Num Pad are a waste of space.

I always have the Num Lock off and use the navigation functions on those keys. I don't do a lot of figure work and when I do want to enter a number use the top row. I learnt to type on a combination of mechanical typewriters and a ZX Spectrum +2 and that's all there was. For about twenty years after that I was using 84-key PC keyboards which didn't have dedicated nav-keys.

My ideal layout would be that of an ISO Model F but with twelve function keys along the top and the addition of Windows 95 keys, though the latter isn't a big deal.

As for lock lights the only time I find they are handy is if a computer seems to have locked-up poking a lock key and seeing if the light comes on is a way of finding out if it's still listening to the keyboard.

Scroll Lock's only use is as a spare key that can be re-purposed; pressing it doesn't even switch the light on on my Linux machines.

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zrrion

01 Dec 2018, 22:55

Homing dots/bumps are bad and deeper dishes are even worse. I don't home row type and having keys with weird stuff on messes up the keyboard slightly but meaningfully.

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Muirium
µ

02 Dec 2018, 10:40

Slightly but meaningfully: our whole area of interest summed up in a nutshell!

I much prefer homing bumps to deep dishes. And yes, I type just as well without them on my Model Fs, so they’re a bit superfluous.

Re: Num & Scroll Lock, I’m a Mac guy and those modes are entirely nonexistent here. Num Lock is an occasionally used, TKL internal feature for me.

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Hypersphere

02 Dec 2018, 15:07

And what's up with "underglow" ?!?

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depletedvespene

03 Dec 2018, 00:32

Ok. Here I go.

Scroll Lock is not useless — I toggle it so much that I mapped it to the "rule" key on my F122.

The numpad was and continues to be a disastrously designed cluster. At least two of the 2U keys should have never been there to begin with (even more so if the numpad is restricted to a 5×4 area) and Num Lock should have been remapped as a secondary function of the Scroll Lock key in the first place (as it was, indeed, in the Model M SSK) and killed off for good 20+ years ago.

Kidsh theshe daysh chop off and move around keysh and clushtersh, but they don't bother to actually think about what they're doing — I've mentioned before that I've given up hope on the 60% form factor because it wipes away (or moves to a layer) too much stuff, but... no one else seems to give a shit at the actual layers that already exist (the AltGr fiasco), which is what's truly needed, and many of the designs (in general, but specially on 60% ones) are just BAD.

The Backtab key should come back. And/or adding a few dedicated keys for navigating windows.

__red__

03 Dec 2018, 01:07

I'm 100% with you on the backtab and the AltGR key.

Sell me on ScrollLock. What do you use it for such that it demands a primary key?

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samuelcable

03 Dec 2018, 01:10

depletedvespene wrote: Ok. Here I go.

Scroll Lock is not useless — I toggle it so much that I mapped it to the "rule" key on my F122.

The numpad was and continues to be a disastrously designed cluster. At least two of the 2U keys should have never been there to begin with (even more so if the numpad is
The Backtab key should come back. And/or adding a few dedicated keys for navigating windows.
I had an idea for an layout based on kishsaver that keeps an ansi enter key but uses an iso shift and backslash, and replaces the ansi /| key with a back tab so it is opposite side to be symmetrical

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depletedvespene

03 Dec 2018, 01:23

__red__ wrote: I'm 100% with you on the backtab and the AltGR key.

Sell me on ScrollLock. What do you use it for such that it demands a primary key?
It's useful for anything that has a large working area of which the monitor only displays a small part of (a spreadsheet is the quintessential example). Yes, it has fallen out of favor with the "cool kids", but it still is quite useful; I think that if text editors at their time had made proper use of it at their time, it'd be commonly used now.

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depletedvespene

03 Dec 2018, 01:24

samuelcable wrote:
depletedvespene wrote: Ok. Here I go.

Scroll Lock is not useless — I toggle it so much that I mapped it to the "rule" key on my F122.

The numpad was and continues to be a disastrously designed cluster. At least two of the 2U keys should have never been there to begin with (even more so if the numpad is
The Backtab key should come back. And/or adding a few dedicated keys for navigating windows.
I had an idea for an layout based on kishsaver that keeps an ansi enter key but uses an iso shift and backslash, and replaces the ansi /| key with a back tab so it is opposite side to be symmetrical
In my design for the right-Shifted keyboard, the BACKQUOTE key is meant to become a Backtab. That said, I'm going to make my first tests with a pingmaster (which will go with the secondary possibility in the design: an Esc key).

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Muirium
µ

03 Dec 2018, 01:27

IBM was thinking similarly at the time…

Image

Findecanor

03 Dec 2018, 01:54

depletedvespene wrote: The Backtab key should come back. And/or adding a few dedicated keys for navigating windows.
__red__ wrote: I'm 100% with you on the backtab and the AltGR key.
To all points of the above: Why?
What do you mean with "dedicated keys for navigating windows"? Keys that navigate between windows and move windows around or navigate inside windows?
What is wrong with Shift-Tab? Why choose a separate key for Back-Tab over having a larger Enter/Return key?
What are the issues with the Alt Gr key?

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XMIT
[ XMIT ]

03 Dec 2018, 01:59

I really like Plum keyboards with aftermarket Korean domes. I think these are unpopular because they're basically unknown.

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abrahamstechnology

03 Dec 2018, 02:28

The AEK's nonstandard homing bumps make perfect sense. Your middle fingers are the longest, so they touch the keyboard first and press down the hardest.

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depletedvespene

03 Dec 2018, 02:35

Findecanor wrote:
depletedvespene wrote: The Backtab key should come back. And/or adding a few dedicated keys for navigating windows.
__red__ wrote: I'm 100% with you on the backtab and the AltGR key.
To all points of the above: Why?
What do you mean with "dedicated keys for navigating windows"? Keys that navigate between windows and move windows around or navigate inside windows?
Sorry, I wasn't clear. Keys to navigate between windows (and between tabs, or whatver equivalent there might be, depending on each application).
Findecanor wrote: What is wrong with Shift-Tab? Why choose a separate key for Back-Tab over having a larger Enter/Return key?
Shift-Tab in and of itself isn't bad (and that's why Backtab disappeared). Ctrl-Shift-Tab, OTOH... is uncomfortable.

As per its position, I'd rather put it close to the Tab key. In my F122, I have it on EF4. On my planned right-Shifted keyboard, it's directly above Tab.
Findecanor wrote: What are the issues with the Alt Gr key?
It's an improper overloading of the right Alt key; it breaks the general rule of having modifiers on both sides (as Shift and Ctrl have); having just one AltGr key means that certain combinations are uncomfortable to use, hindering the full usage of the AltGr-accessed layers.

__red__

03 Dec 2018, 02:40

depletedvespene wrote:
__red__ wrote: I'm 100% with you on the backtab and the AltGR key.

Sell me on ScrollLock. What do you use it for such that it demands a primary key?
It's useful for anything that has a large working area of which the monitor only displays a small part of (a spreadsheet is the quintessential example). Yes, it has fallen out of favor with the "cool kids", but it still is quite useful; I think that if text editors at their time had made proper use of it at their time, it'd be commonly used now.
That doesn't help me since I don't know what the key does other than affect flow-control on some terminal lines.

What do you use it for?

Excelso

03 Dec 2018, 02:52

__red__ wrote:
depletedvespene wrote:
__red__ wrote: I'm 100% with you on the backtab and the AltGR key.

Sell me on ScrollLock. What do you use it for such that it demands a primary key?
It's useful for anything that has a large working area of which the monitor only displays a small part of (a spreadsheet is the quintessential example). Yes, it has fallen out of favor with the "cool kids", but it still is quite useful; I think that if text editors at their time had made proper use of it at their time, it'd be commonly used now.
That doesn't help me since I don't know what the key does other than affect flow-control on some terminal lines.

What do you use it for?
I use it a lot in Spreadsheets. It keeps the active cell selected even when mvoing around the document.

codemonkeymike

03 Dec 2018, 03:19

Nav and function keys have no reason to be on modern keyboards.
Additionally the num pad should never be on the right

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samuelcable

03 Dec 2018, 03:23

Muirium wrote:
snacksthecat wrote: Rubber domes provide the best tactility.
I don’t like lock lights. Light shining up at me from the keyboard is much too irritating. Fortunately, I hardly use caps lock (and num lock is very almost useless, while scroll lock is truly useless) so they’re seldom on, even in the boards which have them. A nice indicator can look pretty, but I’m always happier when it’s off!

Don’t even get me started on backlighting.
I agree here. i am a user of big boards, never really use anything under 100 percent and it bothers me that if youre a numpad user numlock is ALWAYS on. that little green led annoys me more than it should. just leave leds off keyboards

Findecanor

03 Dec 2018, 03:59

depletedvespene wrote: Keys to navigate between windows (and between tabs, or whatver equivalent there might be, depending on each application).
[..]
Shift-Tab in and of itself isn't bad (and that's why Backtab disappeared). Ctrl-Shift-Tab, OTOH... is uncomfortable.
I think that is mostly a deficiency in how keyboard shortcuts have been designed: often not at all, having grown over time.

I think the purpose of the Windows keys is to navigate between and manipulate windows, i.e. it should be that.
The Alt keys could be used with the cursor keys to move between text fields in a window: also up and down.

I am used to using Ctrl+PgUp / Ctrl+PgDown to switch tabs in Mate (formerly Gnome) on Linux. I would get mad if I would have to use Ctrl+Shift+Tab because I have Ctrl mapped on the key in-between Tab and left Shift.
depletedvespene wrote: It's an improper overloading of the right Alt key; it breaks the general rule of having modifiers on both sides (as Shift and Ctrl have); having just one AltGr key means that certain combinations are uncomfortable to use, hindering the full usage of the AltGr-accessed layers.
Oh, I so agree with that. Most other platforms than the PC had both Alt keys access the symbol layer. Linux distros should not have copied Windows.

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

03 Dec 2018, 10:20

the enter key is overrated

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wobbled

03 Dec 2018, 11:08

matt3o wrote: the enter key is overrated
YehFuckTheSpaceBarToo.

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Wodan
ISO Advocate

03 Dec 2018, 11:51

fuckshifttoo

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Myoth

03 Dec 2018, 11:54

fuck keyboards !

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hansichen

03 Dec 2018, 12:39

Image

Ralph_IT

03 Dec 2018, 13:32

Mine:
PS/2 is clearly better than USB.

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

03 Dec 2018, 13:46

Ralph_IT wrote: Mine:
PS/2 is clearly better than USB.
that's not unpopular. that's just the Truth

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