Word processing - what do you use?

[nathanscribe]

Microsoft Office is definitely the best package you can get, it's still the most popular office suite on Mac OSX (ahead of Apples own). I barely do any word processing or require the type of package that MS Office provides, so I get along fine with Pages and Numbers at the minute (for a fraction of the price of Office). I'm sure if I was back studying though, MS Office would be one of the first pieces of software I'd buy.

When I got my first Mac (iBook G4) in 2005, I bought Office for it. It was more or less automatic, I just thought I'd need it, after it being dominant on Windows machines everywhere. But over time I came to think that most people don't require most functions in software like that - not just Office, it's one of the great simultaneous strengths and weaknesses of a number of products of similar nature, trying to do everything and ending up almost always being overkill (and perhaps with steep learning curves, unfathomable feature-sets, etc.). When I updated my desktop OS to Snow Leopard last year, I just ran with iWorks or whatever it's called, with Pages, Numbers etc. It's fine, I'll still probably never use half the stuff they do.

I wonder if there's a modular package out there which allows user customisation of features from a basic starting piont..?

[webwit]

Man, word processors are like colors. No use reviewing them or arguing strengths and weaknesses. It's all a matter of personal preference and everyone's feel of opinion is equal. Do you like purple?

[Brian8bit]

I like pastel colours.

[nathanscribe]

Well yeah but pastel purple is objectively better...

[webwit]

Is this the part where you are actually going to describe what makes OSX better for you? But noooo...

[nathanscribe]

Well it was supposed to be a WP thread, but if you're genuinely insterested:

I got an iBook in 2005 after seemingly endless XP PC trouble. I was not tech-savvy enough to troubleshoot the PC properly, I had two web-designer friends who primarily used Macs, I thought I'd try one of their portables. I liked it, it was stable, it was different enough to Win that it took some getting used to. I had no preference either way exactly at that point, but when it came to having room for another desktop I bought an iMac (2007, still using it). I run Snow Leopard on it, and aside from word processing and occasional spreadsheets I use Logic for my musical travesties.

I find OSX to be stable, which is important, and I can find my way around easily. There are features that I find useful - the contextual menus, modifiable by hitting Option; the menulets; the dock too but I'd like to be able to hide it as default so my forays into the bottom of the screen don't bring it up. Installation and removal is a piece of cake, OSX isn't fussy about which USB port you want to use, and I get the impression (as I'm not what anybody would call a power user) that it has been set up to work solidly out of the box with as little user tinkering as possible. Those are some of the things that come to mind right now.

It has a purple background.

None of the above means that I believe Windows cannot be highly effective when set up by someone who knows exactly what they're doing with it, but my own experience is that Windows needs a bit of tweaking to get the best out of it (particularly with regard to music production) and I was not prepared to spend time learning how to optimise it given my previous machine's unreliability (the causes of which I was never certain of). So being an OSX user is not a position I'm in because of any rational comparison of objective feature sets - it's a position I'm in because I found a practical solution to a problem I had, and it worked so I stuck with it.

[webwit]

Yes OS X is better than Windows XP from 2001, but why is it better than Windows 7? You say you like stuff, but don't compare these to Windows. I find both OSX and Windows 7 stable, and I can find my way around easily, and there are features that I find useful, but that doesn't say much of anything really. This is why I think the current OSX is The Emperor's New Clothes. When they were ahead, people could name hundreds of things which were better. The dock this, the dock that. Now the Windows 7 taskbar is ahead, it is no longer a subject of comparison. So what is the case here is that you are a happy Apple user, subjective, yet snubbed someone's objective, reasoned assessment as without value, because it was not subjective. It's a bad show from Apple, I'd have found it negligent if I had any AAPL. Why is it a bad show? Because they had them by the balls during the Windows XP period and Windows Vista debacle. Vista should have been their sign to pass them and leave them behind. Such opportunity. Instead all focus went to new toys, and Windows 7 closed the distance and passed them. Now they have to play catchup again. Supposedly there will be a cloud service in the new OSX. Observant AAPL owners might have noticed Amazon's disaster hasn't been good to the charts.

[nathanscribe]

I never said OSX SL was better than Win 7. I've never used Win 7 so can't compare them. As for my reasons for liking OSX, I've said what I can be bothered to about it. I've never sat down and rationalised it, I get on with things and if the tools work I use them more. That's about it really. And I never said you were wrong to believe WIn7 better than the current OSX, I just said (or meant to say, whether I did so effectively or not) that I don't think it's true that the word 'better' is only applicable to objective context. It's also used substantially in subjective contexts, which is part of the picture in most matters of preference.

I see no further use for my being part of this discussion. I began this thread to talk about word processors.

[webwit]

Yes, and we gave you answers for which you thanked no one, Your Eminence. But I feel your pain in being offended by being pointed out you replied to give a genuine comparison of OSX vs Windows 7 in your own thread, only not to give any comparison with Windows 7 whatsoever. Clearly an outrageous thing to point out, leaving you with nothing but leave your own thread, filled with these ludicrous responses.

[nathanscribe]

There's no need to be patronising. Actually I am grateful for the replies, I've bookmarked a couple for further investigation. LaTeX looks interesting.

[webwit]

I'm sorry. I'm just having difficulties with people who feel things. I feel the moon is made of cheese.

[mSSM]

I tried to get a Macbook. A Macbook without MacOS. I tried real hard. They don't let me. The pain!

[xbb]

There's no need to be patronising. Actually I am grateful for the replies, I've bookmarked a couple for further investigation. LaTeX looks interesting.

LaTeX is not a word processor, but you can use to make professional documents and much more.

[nathanscribe]

LaTeX is not a word processor, but you can use to make professional documents and much more.

Yes, I had a quick read of their info - I suppose once a text has been drafted/edited elsewhere the final layout etc. would be organised in LaTeX.

[yench]

I'm sorry. I'm just having difficulties with people who feel things. I feel the moon is made of cheese.

I don't get your problem. When people want to buy something because it looks 'cute', let them be. Personal preference is a legit point in a purchase.

While we're at it: What's the better coke? Cola or Pepsi?

PS: I know, there's no discussion because coke itself is crap.

[webwit]

Perhaps you failed to notice I don't believe in operating systems as colors or simple sugar drinks. Especially I think this is a load of crap by people who don't think and don't want to think, yet want to put forward their feelings about things, on equal terms. I.e. idiots and children. Then some go further and attack any form of sophisticated discussion as suspect. Yes, you're allowed to have a subjective preference. Perhaps you should also respect that people try to find objective qualifications. In all cases, subjective opinions without reasoning are infinitely worth less. You, for instance, did not say anything at all, like you're crapping into a void.

[nathanscribe]

In all cases, subjective opinions without reasoning are infinitely worth less.

Presumably you can qualify this. Otherwise it's just an opinion.

[webwit]

Nope, reason > feeling. Apes feel.

[Daniel Beaver]

I take issue with the hostility towards "feelings". The operating system is the man/machine interface of the computer, and all such interfaces (whether they be car dashboards or the handle on your drill) must take into account the fickleness of human emotions. Apple UI designers understand this, and have absolutely nailed intuitive design.

But there is a difference between "intuitive" and "powerful" UI. A computer newbie sitting down to a session of Emacs for the first time will be utterly confounded, and begging for Notepad. Emacs is objectively more useful than Notepad, but it comes at the cost of intuitiveness. An intuitive design will "feel" better to use initially, and that is a good goal to strive for in UI design.

(Despite all this, I agree with webwit's position that Windows 7 is objectively better for productive tasks. Your mileage may vary, but I find OSX's entire application management paradigm to be regressive.)

[webwit]

I think you're confusing two things. Usability research and design and the resulting product, and people's disability to say why they like something (such as good usability), of which I'm not a fan. Usability is quite quantifiable, even when talking in flavors, such as gnome vs kde philosophy. You could study and graduate on the subject. For example, the referenced "fickleness of human emotions" isn't so fickle when applied to user interfaces and brand marketing. The idea it is fickle is romantic. Apple for example have many usability sessions where they monitor hundreds of users, to discover quantifiable cognitive patterns. Numbers, graphs. There is no magic. Also I think this is exactly where Windows 7 has been doing so well - the taskbar, the window handling. But I agree with the rest of what you said (especially the part where you agree with me) and you post nice cat pictures, so I'm willing to let it go

[mSSM]

You got it wrong.

Windows and MacOS have a horrible usability. They are very intuitive to use, but their usability is terrible. It's great that you find it easy to use the panel. That is truly great. And you have mentioned that Windows has some sort of algorithm to have two windows fill exactly half the space each.

It does not change the fact that the panel as well as that window scaling are extremely inefficient in terms of usability (again, albeit intuitive).

When I want to get work done, I am particularly not using Windows or MacOS or Gnome or KDE or whatever. All of those systems have TERRIBLE usability.

[Brian8bit]

I only work in the command line. Graphical user interfaces are an enemy to your freedom.

[webwit]

What are you using mSSM? Some basic windows manager?
Of course, my current favorite OS is FreeBSD. This server runs on it. Shell only, but it's not a workstation.

[JBert]

When I want to get work done, I am particularly not using Windows or MacOS or Gnome or KDE or whatever. All of those systems have TERRIBLE usability.

You didn't add what you do use, and what it does better.

Are you talking about some WM like RatPoison or Awesome or are you a command-line junkie?

[Daniel Beaver]

...should we start an Window Manager thread? I would kinda like that...

[sixty]

Maybe we can revive this one.

[mSSM]

webwit, JBert:
I am using Xmonad, and I am mainly working with vim and mutt.

[itlnstln]

I use only the best: MS Word.

[7bit]

I don't do much word processing, but when I do, I always run in trouble if I want to do more than the equivalent of Windows' Write. Do people just make headers, lists, bold, italics, and that stuff? I hardly do complex stuff, but I run into trouble anyway.

For example (and this is just one), I sometimes write an organized document of specs like this:
a. Chapter
a.b Section
a.b.c Item
a.b.c.d List item

With a-d replaced with increasing numbers.
This makes points in the document easy to reference.
Then I'd like the margins to line up.
...

I strongly recommend LaTeX.

You never have to count your chapters or pages manually anymore, as you have to do in Word&Co.

Also, you can keep your formatting quite separated from the document structure and content. It is also wise to employ a simple language to do the structure and text, from which you can generate LaTeX, HTML or plain text, as needed.

Use whatever text editor fits you best, i.e. either Emacs or VI. There is no other choice!

[ricercar]

> For example (and this is just one), I sometimes write an organized document of specs like this:
> a. Chapter
> a.b Section
> a.b.c Item
> a.b.c.d List item
>
> With a-d replaced with increasing numbers.

FrameMaker does this without breaking a sweat, and it doesn't fuck up indentation or hierarchy when you go back and add a sub-bullet later, like Word does. FrameMaker also maintains formatting separately from content, so that's a big win. Plus, it's available on UNIX as well as Windows. There's no better tool for technical documentation than FrameMaker.