Please welcome the new owners of Deskthority

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Muirium
µ

19 Mar 2021, 19:21

Bjerrk wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 19:08
Muirium wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 18:25
Thing is: if those ‘“likes”’ aren’t used to sort (or in any way even bold) the post in question, does it make a sound?
I liked your post in the woods, but no-one heard it.
No one but us shittin’ bears.

User avatar
Bjerrk

19 Mar 2021, 19:27

kbdfr wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 17:07
DT is a forum, not another asocial media outlet.

Muirium wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 17:34
(Anti)Social media is pervasive now. People are trained to “engage” with those buttons. And you’re seeing them make their natural request here.

If you like that post so much, then tell them so by pen!
Well put, both of ya.

The trouble with likes is not just (or even primarily) the lack of nuance.

It is that as soon as you starting quantifying ''popularity'', it homogenizes a community. People begin to alter their behaviour to fit in with the dominating narrative. It's a well-known effect. When you start quantifying 'success', people will seek to maximize that metric.

r/MechanicalKeyboards, for instance, seems very homogeneous. Keyboards are small form-factor, switches are MX-style, photographs conform to a certain style, and keyboards must be compared to candy or similar edibles. It's unbelievably predictable.

A post on r/MechanicalKeyboards about recreating the Symbolics LISP Keyboard (which should be genuinely interesting to keyboard aficionados) got 1 upvote and quickly faded to obscurity, whereas a post comparing a 60% keyboard to a waffle completely predictably gets thousands of upvotes.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

19 Mar 2021, 19:32

Entirely correct. The conformity thing, not the waffle thing. That really depends on the syrup.

Personally, my +1up is getting Mr. Choc to grump. Oh, brother, do I like me some of *that* feedback. Gimme!

User avatar
matt3o
-[°_°]-

19 Mar 2021, 19:37

you can't remotely compare reddit to a forum community. On reddit you need instant gratification, you don't search for actual information just quick mindless entertainment. Also it's *their* community, they like waffles so be it, who are you to say that a symbolics is more important? Personally I don't follow reddit, problem solved. Saying that a "like/thanks" button would turn DT into reddit means having no respect in this community.

User avatar
Bjerrk

19 Mar 2021, 19:44

Of course I can :) In fact, comparing things that are different is one of the most useful features of comparisons :D

r/MechanicalKeyboards, Deskthority and Geekhack are the three major (mechanical keyboard forums, like it or not. Might as well learn from each other
matt3o wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 19:37
Saying that a "like/thanks" button would turn DT into reddit means having no respect this community.
First of all, I don't think anybody said that.
Second, take a chill pill dude :)

User avatar
Muirium
µ

19 Mar 2021, 20:09

I do agree it would change this community. All the more over time. People do respond to crowd feedback. Right now it comes in the form of bespoke, hand written complaints from us stalwarts. But give the plebs a button, and just you see!

What I can’t foretell is exactly what that change would look like, or if it would necessarily be worse. Just different.

User avatar
matt3o
-[°_°]-

19 Mar 2021, 20:10

fortunately it's not up to me anymore. what a relief!

Archie

19 Mar 2021, 20:11

Muirium wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 17:34
Ever less folk have that shared experience. Let alone the usernet stuff that was toast before my time. Or the dialup BBses, or that weird French version of Ceefax, or good old pen pals…
OMG, you remember Usenet, Netscape and BBS?!? Do you have a 2400 modem hiss as your smartphone ringtone? :D

User avatar
Muirium
µ

19 Mar 2021, 20:13

I remember Netscape, yes. And the smell of hot modems in the morning. But the others were just lore by my time. Passed down by grumpy elders, whose grumpiness just seemed to be a part of who they were. Buggered if I know what upset them.

Hmm!

Archie

19 Mar 2021, 20:17

I recalled how badly we've wanted the *.GIF files to be loaded starting from the bottom, not from the top. Of course, these were purely technical pictures, nothing more: I swear!

Archie

19 Mar 2021, 20:28

matt3o wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 19:37
you can't remotely compare reddit to a forum community. On reddit you need instant gratification, you don't search for actual information just quick mindless entertainment.
While I myself dislike technical / organisational structure of Reddit, I have to disagree. As a member of /r/Trackballs/ I'd say it's pretty much "a forum" - and plenty of useful information is present there actually.

User avatar
matt3o
-[°_°]-

19 Mar 2021, 20:33

Archie wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 20:28
While I myself dislike technical / organisational structure of Reddit, I have to disagree. As a member of /r/Trackballs/ I'd say it's pretty much "a forum" - and plenty of useful information is present there actually.
it's the exception not the norm

User avatar
Muirium
µ

19 Mar 2021, 20:44

I’m honestly surprised anything with “balls” in its name works well on Reddit of all places.
Archie wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 20:17
I recalled how badly we've wanted the *.GIF files to be loaded starting from the bottom, not from the top. Of course, these were purely technical pictures, nothing more: I swear!
And then someone wants to use the phone line and you’re *almost* there! Ugh! Killing me! No it won’t restart. Go use a friend’s phone, this is research!

User avatar
inmbolmie

19 Mar 2021, 20:47

52ebkv.jpg
52ebkv.jpg (105.48 KiB) Viewed 908 times

Archie

19 Mar 2021, 20:51

Muirium wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 20:44
I’m honestly surprised anything with “balls” in its name works well on Reddit of all places.
Good balls are working anywhere regardless from external conditions.
Go use a friend’s phone, this is research!
I see you understand! :lol:

User avatar
Muirium
µ

19 Mar 2021, 20:56

Hey! IBM supremacist here who also wants (nonbinary!) dark theme and is fluid on likes.

Gonna need more monkeys.

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kbdfr
The Tiproman

19 Mar 2021, 20:58

inmbolmie wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 20:47
52ebkv.jpg
Why are Cherry fanboys missing in the pic?
The post obviously deserves a downvote. But then how do I explain why exactly I give a "dislike"?

User avatar
depletedvespene

19 Mar 2021, 21:00

kbdfr wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 20:58
inmbolmie wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 20:47
52ebkv.jpg
Why are Cherry fanboys missing in the pic?
The post obviously deserves a downvote. But then how do I explain why exactly I give a "dislike"?
It's a "mistype".

User avatar
inmbolmie

19 Mar 2021, 21:02

They are in whichever “ETC” you like more :lol:
kbdfr wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 20:58
inmbolmie wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 20:47
52ebkv.jpg
Why are Cherry fanboys missing in the pic?
The post obviously deserves a downvote. But then how do I explain why exactly I give a "dislike"?

User avatar
Muirium
µ

19 Mar 2021, 21:02

I can has Cheery Emmecs. +1 like and subscribe yes

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depletedvespene

19 Mar 2021, 21:27

matt3o wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 19:37
you can't remotely compare reddit to a forum community. On reddit you need instant gratification, you don't search for actual information just quick mindless entertainment.
... and it was NOT like that, long ago (but not far away). The incentives-path established by the like/dislike system, plus its growth beyond a tight-knit community are what made reddit into what it is now.

User avatar
Bjerrk

19 Mar 2021, 21:58

depletedvespene wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 21:27
matt3o wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 19:37
you can't remotely compare reddit to a forum community. On reddit you need instant gratification, you don't search for actual information just quick mindless entertainment.
... and it was NOT like that, long ago (but not far away). The incentives-path established by the like/dislike system, plus its growth beyond a tight-knit community are what made reddit into what it is now.
Solid point.

+1 Insightful, as they would say on slashdot.

User avatar
depletedvespene

19 Mar 2021, 22:30

Bjerrk wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 21:58
depletedvespene wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 21:27
matt3o wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 19:37
you can't remotely compare reddit to a forum community. On reddit you need instant gratification, you don't search for actual information just quick mindless entertainment.
... and it was NOT like that, long ago (but not far away). The incentives-path established by the like/dislike system, plus its growth beyond a tight-knit community are what made reddit into what it is now.
Solid point.

+1 Insightful, as they would say on slashdot.
Yeah. Note how slashdot had a hard-cap of five points, too.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

19 Mar 2021, 22:46

And how people talk of Slashdot in the past tense, much like they do the Simpsons. Not generally a good sign.

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zrrion

20 Mar 2021, 00:00

No likes/dislikes, only discord style reacts but none of the useful smilies are present as options, just :!: :?: :idea: :arrow: and :duck:. Are users more engaged? Probably, they're clicking on buttons after all, but what do the hieroglyphs mean? Who knows.

User avatar
webwit
Wild Duck

20 Mar 2021, 01:05

zrrion wrote:
20 Mar 2021, 00:00
No likes/dislikes, only discord style reacts but none of the useful smilies are present as options, just :!: :?: :idea: :arrow: and :duck:. Are users more engaged? Probably, they're clicking on buttons after all, but what do the hieroglyphs mean? W :maverick: :maverick: :maverick: :duck: :duck: :arrow: ho knows.
:maverick:
top-gun-2-c8bf4e1d40e26788.jpg
top-gun-2-c8bf4e1d40e26788.jpg (12.8 KiB) Viewed 702 times
:duck:
web_fyn-kynd_flickr-creative-common-by-2.0_americanblackduck_flickr-3-adult-male.jpg
web_fyn-kynd_flickr-creative-common-by-2.0_americanblackduck_flickr-3-adult-male.jpg (540.42 KiB) Viewed 702 times

User avatar
NeK

21 Mar 2021, 08:57

Bjerrk wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 12:12
't see why we would want to bring a like-driven culture to deskthority. It usually doesn't bring any good.
I concur. At my own forum (not to brag about it but it is 20 years old now and still going strong) we have made this decision a long time ago, and after a big debate and careful thinking, we decided that any form of like/reputation/vote systems or even a simple "thank you" will invariably end up ruining a good forum and community.

The reason, in very simple terms, is that it adds an extra motivating factor that users will find interesting at first but in the long run, slowly but surely, it will become the focus of the users, instead of the post contents, their quality and what they are actually talking about. This will degrade and alter in a bad way the quality of the content and which will drive off people and will eventually be burried away and eaten by oblivion.

If a thread, a post or a wiki page is interesting and/or popular, there is no need to add any extra markings. It will stand out, will get replies and it will stand the test of time by solely its real substance, which in the case of forums, is the polite, clear discussion and collaboration between members, leaving and building valuable information. That information, despite what marketers or BS artists say, is not missed by google nor any other good search engines. It somehow, against all the SEO of the world trying to compete against it, constantly for years and years, it still always comes on top of the results. And in general, people interested in that topic, will find it.

The thing is, that when they do find it, they should find a great quality discussion, that is on topic, polite, not ruined by kids and swearings and is focused on the topic at hand with on to the point valuable information.

That is what makes people that are interesting in the topic - and most importantly - knowlegable of it, engage in that topic too.

My 2 cents.

User avatar
matt3o
-[°_°]-

21 Mar 2021, 09:16

I'm on a technical forum (3d printing) that has this system since years and absolutely nothing bad happened because of it. When I first registered and posted something informative I got a "like" (I didn't even notice there was a "like" button), I thought it was a kind gesture to a new user. People mostly ignore the system but I think it's more of a way of saying "go ahead, you are doing good" and can be actually motivating.

User avatar
ifohancroft

21 Mar 2021, 10:24

Bjerrk wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 19:08
Muirium wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 18:25
Thing is: if those ‘“likes”’ aren’t used to sort (or in any way even bold) the post in question, does it make a sound?
I liked your post in the woods, but no-one heard it.
I have both liked and not liked your comment, but there's no way for you to know which is true until we get a like button :D

User avatar
Bjerrk

21 Mar 2021, 10:56

ifohancroft wrote:
21 Mar 2021, 10:24
Bjerrk wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 19:08
Muirium wrote:
19 Mar 2021, 18:25
Thing is: if those ‘“likes”’ aren’t used to sort (or in any way even bold) the post in question, does it make a sound?
I liked your post in the woods, but no-one heard it.
I have both liked and not liked your comment, but there's no way for you to know which is true until we get a like button :D
Yes, and I see no reason to collapse that particular wave function! :-D

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