Alps Lubricant FOUND!

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andreas

31 Aug 2021, 09:22

Interesting finds. I wonder about the implications of boiling Creams with what effect it has on the dampeners.

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soyuz

31 Aug 2021, 14:38

andreas wrote:
31 Aug 2021, 09:22
Interesting finds. I wonder about the implications of boiling Creams with what effect it has on the dampeners.
Someone I know has experimented, no effect. I wasn't boiling damped ones tho.

andresteare

13 Sep 2021, 03:13

CallmeJohn wrote:
27 Aug 2021, 12:20
Just tried to wax mod a model m key stem cause why not and it works really well, it removes all the binding from off-centre key presses and increases the smoothness a bit. I didn't try to boil to clean the stem first which would probably help the smoothness but I'll try that now.
Any updates?

SK-8K

13 Sep 2021, 05:59

What would happen if you combined a lubricant with the wax (like PTFE) would it make it "slipperier"?

CallmeJohn

13 Sep 2021, 07:56

andresteare wrote:
13 Sep 2021, 03:13
CallmeJohn wrote:
27 Aug 2021, 12:20
Just tried to wax mod a model m key stem cause why not and it works really well, it removes all the binding from off-centre key presses and increases the smoothness a bit. I didn't try to boil to clean the stem first which would probably help the smoothness but I'll try that now.
Any updates?
I never tried it in the end cause I was unsure if the stem would warp and the fact that the barrels just might be dirty not the stem, ill try it over the weekend and report my findings.

Jezzuz

13 Sep 2021, 17:11

SK-8K wrote:
13 Sep 2021, 05:59
What would happen if you combined a lubricant with the wax (like PTFE) would it make it "slipperier"?
I tried mixing the wax with nyogel and it was just slightly better than nyogel no where near as good as pure wax. But I still feel like there is something that could be added to make it even better.

thechemtrailkid

14 Sep 2021, 01:04

Has anyone had any success with waxes other than paraffin? For some reason I am having trouble getting an even coating.

CallmeJohn

14 Sep 2021, 01:28

thechemtrailkid wrote:
14 Sep 2021, 01:04
Has anyone had any success with waxes other than paraffin? For some reason I am having trouble getting an even coating.
Sounds like you're adding too much wax.

Jezzuz

14 Sep 2021, 03:59

thechemtrailkid wrote:
14 Sep 2021, 01:04
Has anyone had any success with waxes other than paraffin? For some reason I am having trouble getting an even coating.
Might have too hard of wax, if are are doing the boiling method maybe try stirring longer

thechemtrailkid

14 Sep 2021, 08:58

SK-8K wrote:
13 Sep 2021, 05:59
What would happen if you combined a lubricant with the wax (like PTFE) would it make it "slipperier"?
I think that paraffin wax plus PTFE powder is commonly used for pike chains so it doesn't sound like a bad idea.

thechemtrailkid

14 Sep 2021, 09:02

CallmeJohn wrote:
14 Sep 2021, 01:28
thechemtrailkid wrote:
14 Sep 2021, 01:04
Has anyone had any success with waxes other than paraffin? For some reason I am having trouble getting an even coating.
Sounds like you're adding too much wax.
Jezzuz wrote:
14 Sep 2021, 03:59
thechemtrailkid wrote:
14 Sep 2021, 01:04
Has anyone had any success with waxes other than paraffin? For some reason I am having trouble getting an even coating.
Might have too hard of wax, if are are doing the boiling method maybe try stirring longer

I went ahead and cleaned the stems off by boiling them and placing a smallish piece of wax into a measuring cup with about 2 cups of water in the microwave. Once vigorously boiling, I added in the stems (a little less than a hundred) and boiled them for another minute. This boiling (compared to my stove top) is much much, more vigorous.

This seemed to work better. I think both of you were right. Thank you.

parked

06 Oct 2021, 16:34

Interesting... Reminds me of waxing the hardwood floor.... (back in the old days..)

thousandperfume

07 Oct 2021, 22:40

SK-8K wrote:
13 Sep 2021, 05:59
What would happen if you combined a lubricant with the wax (like PTFE) would it make it "slipperier"?
My favorite combination so far was using boiled paraffin wax on the sliders, and using Tribosys 3203 on the slider tracks. I'm not sure if my wax was actually paraffin since I just happened to find an old candle from my basement, when I find a new one I should be able to confirm. The sound changes (which is to be expected) but for those who don't mind it, in terms of smoothness, I liked it better than boiling both the housing and sliders with wax.

Forgot to say, I tested it on SKCM White Damped, bamboo, undampened and linearized.

Jezzuz

12 Oct 2021, 05:29

I tried mixing pfte lube, super lube, nyogel, and krytox with pure paraffin wax and all result in the same thing which is a wax at room temp but is very soft and melts super easily even with like 20% wax it still is like this and doesn't come anywhere near the effectiveness of pure wax and is a very different consistency from normal lubes

andresteare

15 Oct 2021, 18:55

jusr tested on linearized Alps SKCM Blacks, bamboo and it feels great, binding is absolutely gone and sound is a little bassier

Jan Pospisil

15 Oct 2021, 19:45

andresteare wrote:
15 Oct 2021, 18:55
jusr tested on linearized Alps SKCM Blacks, bamboo and it feels great, binding is absolutely gone and sound is a little bassier
Did you boil both housings and sliders? Did they survive ok?

TheNeonKnight

15 Oct 2021, 19:57

I tested boil and wax on some SKCC tall creams from an M0110a that would bind and stick like crazy. I cant even get a 2u key to bind now.

andresteare

15 Oct 2021, 20:02

Jan Pospisil wrote:
15 Oct 2021, 19:45
andresteare wrote:
15 Oct 2021, 18:55
jusr tested on linearized Alps SKCM Blacks, bamboo and it feels great, binding is absolutely gone and sound is a little bassier
Did you boil both housings and sliders? Did they survive ok?
Forgot to address that, sorry.
Sinced I cleaned them about 5 months ago I just waxed them skipping the cleaning part. I can boil them if you are curious, I doubt it will melt the sliders as long as it's not resting in the bottom.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but ABS melting point is about 105° and water is, obviously, 100° so if there's still water there then it's not at 100° and the slider won't be at the exact same temperature as the water around it.

I will test with a thermocouple tho, I have lots of White Damped sliders so I have something to test with

User avatar
hellothere

20 Oct 2021, 22:08

I mentioned, a couple pages back, that I've been playing around with something called Finish Line Ceramic Wax Chain Lube and I've been extremely happy with it, especially on pine white Alps. Considering the amount of folks that seem to have had good results with this "hot wax" procedure and because someone mentioned that it'd be cool to combine paraffin with PTFE, I did some Googling. There are several different bike chain hot wax treatments, some of which so contain PTFE, like this one.

Also, interesting to me, at least, there have been some studies done on bikes to see if the lube does anything. It does. Note that they also mention that cleaning is more important than lubing.

Again, I'm talking metal bike chains, here, YMMV for plastic parts.

I wouldn't mind trying to do the hot wax thing that has been described in this thread, but I'd like a nice step-by-step guide. I couldn't find one.

Jezzuz

22 Oct 2021, 07:34

hellothere wrote:
20 Oct 2021, 22:08
I mentioned, a couple pages back, that I've been playing around with something called Finish Line Ceramic Wax Chain Lube and I've been extremely happy with it, especially on pine white Alps. Considering the amount of folks that seem to have had good results with this "hot wax" procedure and because someone mentioned that it'd be cool to combine paraffin with PTFE, I did some Googling. There are several different bike chain hot wax treatments, some of which so contain PTFE, like this one.

Also, interesting to me, at least, there have been some studies done on bikes to see if the lube does anything. It does. Note that they also mention that cleaning is more important than lubing.

Again, I'm talking metal bike chains, here, YMMV for plastic parts.

I wouldn't mind trying to do the hot wax thing that has been described in this thread, but I'd like a nice step-by-step guide. I couldn't find one.
This is my most recent video on how to apply the wax https://youtu.be/QIkDOc9cIqw

User avatar
hellothere

22 Oct 2021, 19:26

Jezzuz wrote:
22 Oct 2021, 07:34
This is my most recent video on how to apply the wax https://youtu.be/QIkDOc9cIqw
Questions:
So, it's not really "boiling" water we want, but just really hot, right? I did a quick Google and saw that paraffin melts at a max of 165 F/68 C or so.

How much effort do you have to put in for wiping the wax off the slider on the switch plate side?

How easy is it to reverse this procedure if you don't like it?

Do you have any idea how long this lasts?

Comments:
I literally cringed when I saw you bring out that metal strainer. Please use plastic. Plastic strainers and colanders are really cheap.

I found it interesting that there's nothing done to the top housing except cleaning. I think I've mentioned that when I've used the Finish Line stuff, I only apply it in the top housing rails for Alps whites or other Alps "slick" plastic sliders. That'd obviously be difficult to do using the method described here. It's just been my experience that I've seen more top housings that look bad than sliders that look bad.

Jezzuz

23 Oct 2021, 02:52

the boiling water works good for cleaning but I prefer to use a hot mixture of soap and simple green then letting it soak for a few minutes stirring every once and a while. After that I rinse with water. You can also boil and or ultra sonic clean them. But once the parts are cleaned using the closed container shake method you want the water to be under 170 Fahrenheit so it doesn’t build up pressure.

For clickies and tactiles you want to remove all the wax from the side on the slider.

It’s still unknown how this method will last into the years but i personally have switches that have gone through about 30000 plus keypresses and many boards have been daily driven and tested with no difference in feel so far

It’s about as hard to remove as other lubes as it is usually removed in hot temperatures

mode1ace

23 Oct 2021, 07:24

hellothere wrote:
22 Oct 2021, 19:26
I literally cringed when I saw you bring out that metal strainer. Please use plastic. Plastic strainers and colanders are really cheap.
Why? I've used a metal strainer for caps and switchparts for years, never had an issue with scratching. Metal isn't inherently scratchy unless you force an edge onto plastic.
andresteare wrote:
15 Oct 2021, 20:02
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but ABS melting point is about 105°
Abs isn't used in pine alps sliders or housings, I've acetone tested them and they don't melt. The materials can withstand a significantly higher temp than 105c.

User avatar
soyuz

23 Oct 2021, 12:42

hellothere wrote:
22 Oct 2021, 19:26

I literally cringed when I saw you bring out that metal strainer. Please use plastic. Plastic strainers and colanders are really cheap.
Yeah, don't do this. Not all plastics are made alike, cheaping out resulted in dripping melted plastic all over my hob from high heat. wasn't fun.

User avatar
soyuz

23 Oct 2021, 12:46

hellothere wrote:
22 Oct 2021, 19:26

How much effort do you have to put in for wiping the wax off the slider on the switch plate side?
take fingernail. run fingernail across area you want to remove wax from. wax gone

SK-8K

23 Oct 2021, 18:38

hellothere wrote:
20 Oct 2021, 22:08
I mentioned, a couple pages back, that I've been playing around with something called Finish Line Ceramic Wax Chain Lube and I've been extremely happy with it, especially on pine white Alps. Considering the amount of folks that seem to have had good results with this "hot wax" procedure and because someone mentioned that it'd be cool to combine paraffin with PTFE, I did some Googling. There are several different bike chain hot wax treatments, some of which so contain PTFE, like this one.

Also, interesting to me, at least, there have been some studies done on bikes to see if the lube does anything. It does. Note that they also mention that cleaning is more important than lubing.

Again, I'm talking metal bike chains, here, YMMV for plastic parts.

I wouldn't mind trying to do the hot wax thing that has been described in this thread, but I'd like a nice step-by-step guide. I couldn't find one.
Thank you! If I ever find a vintage ALPS board, I'll try this type of wax.

User avatar
hellothere

23 Oct 2021, 18:52

Sorry. My post seems to have been eaten. Let me try again.

First thanks to soyuz, Jezzuz, and mod1ace for answering my questions.

Regarding the metal strainer, I'd say if the metal feels rough when you run a finger over it or you can see rust, it's probably not going to be good for you shaking plastic parts in. You can get nylon strainers and their melting point is around 269C. I've also used pretty high temp liquids with plastic colanders. I may be overly cautious, but plastic colanders and nylon strainers are under $10. For me, at least, $10 for peace of mind is a great price to pay.

SK-8K, if you do try either of the bike waxes, I'd love to hear your review! I do have several Alps KBs that need repair, but my schedule says it'll be a while before I get back to them.

SK-8K

27 Oct 2021, 19:39

I'm going to figure out how to chemically apply the wax rather than thermally (so it can be painted on and dried, like the original lubricant was) I will try several solvents and find out which one works best for the bike chain wax.

Jezzuz

02 Nov 2021, 04:15

SK-8K wrote:
27 Oct 2021, 19:39
I'm going to figure out how to chemically apply the wax rather than thermally (so it can be painted on and dried, like the original lubricant was) I will try several solvents and find out which one works best for the bike chain wax.
I imagine isopropyl alcohol would be a good solvent for paraffin wax

SK-8K

02 Nov 2021, 18:13

I will try several solvents, isopropyl alcohol, petroleum, mineral spirits, paint thinner, turpentine, etc. Turpentine seems to be the best solvent for parrafin wax from my research but I'll have to see if it negatively affects the plastic before it can dry.

I will also try to directly apply hot wax with a wax melter and a paintbrush. That would probably be the safest for the plastic but may be hard not to over-apply the wax. Perhaps excess can then be buffed off with a dremel felt tip.

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