Silicon Graphics Granite ISO Part number 9500904

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

31 Mar 2015, 17:22

nothing new here.Several members here own this keyboard. I have wanted one of these for a long time. Thanks to a fellow DT member I was albe to buy this recently. The overall condition of this SGI is mediocre. As you can see there is yellowing on the case, for some reason in this case more green than yellow? The plate has little rust spots on it, nothing big. Switches are Alps SKCM Cream Damped. There is one slider that has a differrent color! Looks salmon, strange. This is like the deluxe version of the Dell AT 101. The keycaps are real nice. The controller chip reads Philips. I have yet to test the keyboard for function. Notice how ISO layout has the legendary Mµ cap. :mrgreen:

http://deskthority.net/wiki/SGI_Bigfoot_series
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HzFaq

31 Mar 2015, 17:26

Mµ's cap is standard fare on DE ISO boards I thought...

Candidate for retrobrighting? Not sure if it will un-green the case though.

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Muirium
µ

31 Mar 2015, 17:30

Yeah, he's just teasing me!

Is this PS/2 or SGI protocol? The former is easy to convert, of course, but the latter is a different story. I found the spec, and it isn't even 5 volt like USB, AT, XT and ADB. How does + and - 12 volts sound to you?

Image

Jings!

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

31 Mar 2015, 17:31

HzFaq wrote: Mµ's cap is standard fare on DE ISO boards I thought...

Candidate for retrobrighting? Not sure if it will un-green the case though.
Yes you're right that cap is nothing special. Regarding that green on the case I'm not sure either. I've never encountered that before myself.
Muirium wrote: Yeah, he's just teasing me!

Is this PS/2 or SGI protocol? The former is easy to convert, of course, but the latter is a different story. I found the spec, and it isn't even 5 volt like USB, AT, XT and ADB. Jings!
Of course I had to emphasize the Mµ cap! 8-) I do not know what protocol it speaks yet. I'll try it later. I do still have a Dell AT102 in the basement, is that controller usable?

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Muirium
µ

31 Mar 2015, 17:43

Looking at the wiki (which is hard to do, this page is crashing my old iPad 1 so much) you've got the traditional "Granite" PS/2 model so you should be fine.

Andy mentioned a Dell controller swap for my SGI protocol model, but I don't know if they're compatible at all. Mine came from Cindy in great shape, not even needing much cleaning, and the only peek I took inside confirmed it's a nice looking PCB in there behind a giant EMI shield. Feels well built. Although the chances of getting around its daft protocol are slim, so I'll probably have to take it out eventually.

But my spacebar and case are unyellowed, so there!

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HzFaq

31 Mar 2015, 17:47

Ah ok, teasing Mu is fine.

If it does run a silly protocol, couldn't you just gut-swap in a Dell AT10*? Or are they just similar enough to look the same but not similar enough to be compatible?

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chzel

31 Mar 2015, 17:48

seebart wrote: Of course I had to emphasize the Mµ cap!
While on the subject, can someone explain to me why on earth the Germans need the μ on their layout?

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chzel

31 Mar 2015, 17:50

HzFaq wrote: If it does run a silly protocol, couldn't you just gut-swap in a Dell AT10*? Or are they just similar enough to look the same but not similar enough to be compatible?
I think the insides are the same, if you want I can snap a pic of my AT101W's PCB to compare

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

31 Mar 2015, 17:52

The connector on mine looks identical to PS/2. I'll try it later. I don't know if a Dell AT102 swap would work, I remember Andrew mentioning something about that recently.
chzel wrote:
HzFaq wrote: If it does run a silly protocol, couldn't you just gut-swap in a Dell AT10*? Or are they just similar enough to look the same but not similar enough to be compatible?
I think the insides are the same, if you want I can snap a pic of my AT101W's PCB to compare
don't bother, I'll take a look at mine. Well the μ cap is for all those german scientists who never figure out anything usable in real life but get paid top cash for their "research" work.
Last edited by seebart on 31 Mar 2015, 17:58, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
guk
1896 Vintage Reds

31 Mar 2015, 17:58

If it's identical to mine, it is PS/2. That salmon slider is odd though, don't remember if that also was the case with my one.

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jou

31 Mar 2015, 18:00

Muirium wrote: I found the spec, and it isn't even 5 volt like USB, AT, XT and ADB. How does + and - 12 volts sound to you?
When you only need to receive, RS232 can be converted quite easily: http://www.kmitl.ac.th/~kswichit%20/ap275/ap275.htm. I used that to build the converter for the trackball part of my Marquardt HEROS keyboard and it worked fine.

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scottc

31 Mar 2015, 18:02

Really excellent keyboard! I love the SGI boards. I hope to have one of my own some day.

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

31 Mar 2015, 18:06

thank you for that link jou!

Thanks scottc, the granite look actually obscures the yellowing a little.

zts

31 Mar 2015, 18:08

This should be a beautiful board after some heavy-duty cleaning and spot-detailing ... but it's a beauty.

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

31 Mar 2015, 18:11

zts wrote: This should be a beautiful board after some heavy-duty cleaning and spot-detailing ... but it's a beauty.
I did clean it already! That yellowing / green will not come off with just regular cleaning in my opinion. That little rust on the plate is fine. I'll leave it.

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chzel

31 Mar 2015, 18:30

The greenish tint is most likely the result of yellowing over the original bluish-grey, so I'd think only retr0bright will reverse it!

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

31 Mar 2015, 18:34

chzel wrote: The greenish tint is most likely the result of yellowing over the original bluish-grey, so I'd think only retr0bright will reverse it!
That's what guk said too. This will not be my first retrobright test candidate though!

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chzel

31 Mar 2015, 18:50

Definitely not a board to experiment with!
By the way, it must be PS/2, the label reads 5VDC/300mA

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Chyros

31 Mar 2015, 18:55

Looks nice, I hope I get a PS/2 one of these someday :D . About the salmon switch; I'm guessing that's an actual SKCM Salmon switch, right? That's interesting; this board hasn't been reported to come with Salmons. In some Alps boards, the switches are a smattering of switches the board came with over its lifetime, but I guess it's not common to see a switch it never shipped with to begin with Oo .

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

31 Mar 2015, 20:06

It could have been a replacement switch. But why salmon? Strangeness.

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Chyros

31 Mar 2015, 20:31

seebart wrote: It could have been a replacement switch. But why salmon? Strangeness.
You mean someone manually replaced that switch? Should be easy to determine, the soldering will look different in that case. Either that or the slider somehow got lost and someone replaced the slider with a spare Salmon one...

Findecanor

01 Apr 2015, 02:24

Are there any scratch marks on the salmon switch?

It should be PS/2. The SGI-proprietary protocol keyboards has a different case that is smooth around the function keys and with two ports with detachable cable - like Apple ADB keyboards.
chzel wrote: While on the subject, can someone explain to me why on earth the Germans need the μ on their layout?
Because it is uncultured and barbaric to use u instead of µ.

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Mal-2

01 Apr 2015, 04:16

Findecanor wrote: Because it is uncultured and barbaric to use u instead of µ.
Then why don't we all have Å and Δ and π and ħ and «» and — on our keyboards? I had to jump through flaming hoops to get them all (along with ♭♮♯ ¥₤₩£€₠₱₽₹฿)...

μᵥ

Oh, I also think the greenish tint to the case looks rather cool, even if it's not the original and correct color.

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Halvar

01 Apr 2015, 09:14

µ is the only Greek character commonly used with SI units, it's also the only one that has been part of the DOS and Latin-1 8-bit codes and thus available in every font on a German PC before Unicode.

The yellowed case doesn't that look good "in person" compared to the original look. I retrobrighted mine, but the yellow/green is already coming back a bit.

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

01 Apr 2015, 09:47

This SGI is PS/2 indeed, I'm typing on it now. Interesting how these cream Alps feel slightly different from those in my AEK2.
Mal-2 wrote:
Findecanor wrote: Oh, I also think the greenish tint to the case looks rather cool, even if it's not the original and correct color.
hmm I don't know about that but I'll live with it for now. At least the caps are nice with the exception of the creamy spacebar! :mrgreen:

Yes the µ has been in ISO layout for a long tile IMO. I have no idea why though.
Halvar wrote: The yellowed case doesn't that look good "in person" compared to the original look. I retrobrighted mine, but the yellow/green is already coming back a bit.
It does not look so bad due to the darker base color of the case and the SGI granite "pattern".

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Chyros

01 Apr 2015, 12:27

seebart wrote: This SGI is PS/2 indeed, I'm typing on it now. Interesting how these cream Alps feel slightly different from those in my AEK2.
Might be a function of the case, or the switches might have been different marks. The black Alps in my AT101 feel and sound completely different from those in my AT101W, for example (both in excellent condition).

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

01 Apr 2015, 12:39

Chyros wrote:
seebart wrote: This SGI is PS/2 indeed, I'm typing on it now. Interesting how these cream Alps feel slightly different from those in my AEK2.
Might be a function of the case, or the switches might have been different marks. The black Alps in my AT101 feel and sound completely different from those in my AT101W, for example (both in excellent condition).
obviously the same switch in different keyboard altogether can feel quite different, but sometimes a comparison is possible and the "feel" is similair.

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Chyros

01 Apr 2015, 12:58

seebart wrote:
Chyros wrote:
seebart wrote: This SGI is PS/2 indeed, I'm typing on it now. Interesting how these cream Alps feel slightly different from those in my AEK2.
Might be a function of the case, or the switches might have been different marks. The black Alps in my AT101 feel and sound completely different from those in my AT101W, for example (both in excellent condition).
obviously the same switch in different keyboard altogether can feel quite different, but sometimes a comparison is possible and the "feel" is similair.
Indeed.

In case you want to see my comparison video (made it a week ago or so):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6OIXkd5oRg

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

01 Apr 2015, 13:18

ahh but the Dell on the right is the older revision with salmon Alps or also back Alps? Overall they're both much louder than the damped cream Alps, which I had forgotten since it's been ages that I used my Dell.

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Dell_AT101

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Chyros

01 Apr 2015, 14:38

No, GYUM97SK also has black Alps. I have a different comparison video of the Salmon Alps one (GIYAT101-102 iirc).

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