Post a picture of your ideal keyboard layout!

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depletedvespene

18 Mar 2019, 18:34

zrrion wrote:
18 Mar 2019, 18:32
Finally, keys large enough to achieve optimal dick typing!
Richard Palmer, head of Palmer™ Technologies, will be pleased by reading this comment. :mrgreen:

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kbdfr
The Tiproman

18 Mar 2019, 19:43

vvp wrote:
18 Mar 2019, 17:09
[…] point out that it is better to have modifiers easily reachable by thumbs than trying to stretch pinkies for them. […]
Would look less biased if instead of "trying to stretch" you had simply written "stretching" pinkies for modifiers :lol:
As a matter of fact, using your pinkies is simply a matter of training, it is exactly a easy as using any other finger,
Ask a piano player :mrgreen:

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vvp

18 Mar 2019, 20:53

kbdfr wrote:
18 Mar 2019, 19:43
Ask a piano player :mrgreen:
I talked to tp4tissue on geekhack. He is a piano player and loves to move hands a lot around keyboard. I need some time to recover from the stress of that experience ;)

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Tias

18 Mar 2019, 21:25

depletedvespene wrote:
18 Mar 2019, 17:31
vvp wrote:
18 Mar 2019, 17:09
Of course, my reasoning is somewhat weakened by people who hit space bars with palm :roll:
No worries! They are covered by the new, exciting, Palmer™ keyboard.

Palmer.png

(it even comes with an extra set of titanium stabs, because replacing those if when they break is quite a b*tch!) :mrgreen:
Those Palmer™ bottom row keys could almost even be pressed by using ones elbows :lol:

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Menuhin

18 Mar 2019, 21:35

To minimize finger movements during "typing" inputs, I recommend DataHand and OrbiTouch.
Not so much related to traditional keyboard "layout" already though.
Spoiler:
Image

Image

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PlacaFromHell

19 Mar 2019, 02:30

I "palmtype" when I have to press a key which is in a high row (Mostly numbers) before a space. I developed that weird way to type when I was a kid and my main keyboard was a crappy rubberdome with a giant spacebar.

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depletedvespene

19 Mar 2019, 02:33

Tias wrote:
18 Mar 2019, 21:25
……
Those Palmer™ bottom row keys could almost even be pressed by using ones elbows :lol:
Actually, the Palmer™ XL elbowpads have slightly larger keys (not so in the S, M and L models). :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Gampela

19 Mar 2019, 10:11

I feel like palm (or side of it) is the only way to reach the bottom-left-corner ctrl. These days I use the HHKB-style (or wherever it originated from) control position with my pinky. That's a helluva lot easier to use.

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vvp

19 Mar 2019, 10:47

I heard about using palms for the bottom row keys at the sides. You are probably not alone using it that way. That is using palms on still quite small Ctrl keys.

To be honest I have palm keys as well (used as layer shifts). But I never smash them, they are small and it is a custom build, i.e. not comparable to common layouts. I have put a blue keycaps on them on this picture to easily distinguish them.
palm-keys-s.jpg
blue palm keys
palm-keys-s.jpg (83.3 KiB) Viewed 1553 times

Gampela

19 Mar 2019, 11:10

Certainly an interesting looking setup you got there.

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Menuhin

19 Mar 2019, 11:36

Image

Does the thenar region count as part of palm of the hand?
I think "palm keys" in some special keyboard designs are usually located at the outside bottom corner areas of both hands, not on the thumb side.

People may hit the bottom corner keys on a WKL layout with the outer edge of the hands without moving away from the "home row" too much.

samuelcable

19 Mar 2019, 13:07

firefox_odWFsMgUfD.png
firefox_odWFsMgUfD.png (36.4 KiB) Viewed 1491 times
Note the realforce bottom row. ive come quite comfortable with it

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PlacaFromHell

19 Mar 2019, 18:06

Menuhin wrote:
19 Mar 2019, 11:36
Image

Does the thenar region count as part of palm of the hand?
I think "palm keys" in some special keyboard designs are usually located at the outside bottom corner areas of both hands, not on the thumb side.

People may hit the bottom corner keys on a WKL layout with the outer edge of the hands without moving away from the "home row" too much.
This is a lot more acurrated

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depletedvespene

19 Mar 2019, 22:17

samuelcable wrote:
19 Mar 2019, 13:07
firefox_odWFsMgUfD.png

Note the realforce bottom row. ive come quite comfortable with it
The left-side numpad and the supranumpad cluster need some work.

samuelcable

19 Mar 2019, 22:32

depletedvespene wrote:
19 Mar 2019, 22:17
samuelcable wrote:
19 Mar 2019, 13:07
firefox_odWFsMgUfD.png

Note the realforce bottom row. ive come quite comfortable with it
The left-side numpad and the supranumpad cluster need some work.
Sorry... I added the extra 4 keys to the tip of the numpad at the last second. I refuse to put another key above esc tho. Sorry

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depletedvespene

19 Mar 2019, 22:34

samuelcable wrote:
19 Mar 2019, 22:32
depletedvespene wrote:
19 Mar 2019, 22:17
samuelcable wrote:
19 Mar 2019, 13:07
firefox_odWFsMgUfD.png

Note the realforce bottom row. ive come quite comfortable with it
The left-side numpad and the supranumpad cluster need some work.
Sorry... I added the extra 4 keys to the tip of the numpad at the last second. I refuse to put another key above esc tho. Sorry
The Esc key and the unused space right above it are fine. DBS.

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Telstar

22 Mar 2019, 03:22

Here is mine. 1 and half key larger than a TKL, 92 keys total.
Image

Note the place of the DEL, right CTRL, 9u spacebar and the lack of windows and FN keys (which I hate). CAPS lock must have on/off led.
At this point I'm not sure if I will go ahead with it, but definitely to the pcb stage yes.

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Menuhin

08 Apr 2019, 21:12

Telstar wrote:
22 Mar 2019, 03:22
Here is mine. 1 and half key larger than a TKL, 92 keys total.
Image

Note the place of the DEL, right CTRL, 9u spacebar and the lack of windows and FN keys (which I hate). CAPS lock must have on/off led.
At this point I'm not sure if I will go ahead with it, but definitely to the pcb stage yes.
It's a top designer layout, for the layout runway show!

First impression: Striking character by showing off the XXL size spacebar, and then the egocentric top position of right Ctrl key. Not to mention the selective omission of F4 and F6 to F10 keys.

If key legends are considered, I think it is more difficult to get the top row Ctrl and the bottom row 1.25u Del than the 9u spacebar, and the 1.25u AltGr is not offered as often either.

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depletedvespene

08 Apr 2019, 21:54

Menuhin wrote:
08 Apr 2019, 21:12

If key legends are considered, I think it is more difficult to get the top row Ctrl and the bottom row 1.25u Del than the 9u spacebar, and the 1.25u AltGr is not offered as often either.
Not to mention a particular idea of mine of symmetrical half-stepped keys on the bottom row. Imagine, if you will, bottom rows like this:
semi-stepped-mods.png
Bottom rows with symmetrical bottom row mods.
semi-stepped-mods.png (11.2 KiB) Viewed 1109 times
But just the idea of making new molds for these rips my dream away.

Unless I should convince some kustom maker...

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Validifyed

11 Apr 2019, 17:54

Image

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Menuhin

12 Apr 2019, 12:12

Validifyed wrote:
11 Apr 2019, 17:54
Image
Lucky you:
He should have spare PCBs
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=87511.0;topicseen

And PlastikSchnittstelle from SKB60 may have a few extra case for that special bottom row blockers.

You are all set with < $200 and some soldering.

Findecanor

12 Apr 2019, 13:22

depletedvespene wrote:
08 Apr 2019, 21:54
Not to mention a particular idea of mine of symmetrical half-stepped keys on the bottom row. Imagine, if you will, bottom rows like this:
At least, Signature Plastics still lists being able to mould 2.5u keys like the Ctrl keys on Wyse PCE.

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depletedvespene

12 Apr 2019, 13:39

Findecanor wrote:
12 Apr 2019, 13:22
depletedvespene wrote:
08 Apr 2019, 21:54
Not to mention a particular idea of mine of symmetrical half-stepped keys on the bottom row. Imagine, if you will, bottom rows like this:
At least, Signature Plastics still lists being able to mould 2.5u keys like the Ctrl keys on Wyse PCE.
Those are a tad too large... and I like 'em buckling springs. One more thing in my TO DO list for when I take over Unicomp! :mrgreen:

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Telstar

12 Apr 2019, 23:03

Menuhin wrote:
08 Apr 2019, 21:12
It's a top designer layout, for the layout runway show!

First impression: Striking character by showing off the XXL size spacebar, and then the egocentric top position of right Ctrl key. Not to mention the selective omission of F4 and F6 to F10 keys.

If key legends are considered, I think it is more difficult to get the top row Ctrl and the bottom row 1.25u Del than the 9u spacebar, and the 1.25u AltGr is not offered as often either.
Thank you, I had missed your reply.

I guess 1.5 DEL and ALTGR can do too. Top row CRTL is not an issue with DSA caps, which are the only way I can get enough legends without robbing a bank.
I was thinking of a wood spacebar, so yeah, maybe not so hard to get. :)

I'm gonna test the use a numpad to the left first. I could like it more and in that case I'll do a different layout :)

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Telstar

12 Apr 2019, 23:04

depletedvespene wrote:
12 Apr 2019, 13:39
my TO DO list for when I take over Unicomp! :mrgreen:
Yes, please do. :mrgreen:

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depletedvespene

12 Apr 2019, 23:09

Telstar wrote:
12 Apr 2019, 23:03

I'm gonna test the use a numpad to the left first. I could like it more and in that case I'll do a different layout :)
Be sure to test it out a lot first before actually doing a custom keyboard. I'm in the middle of that these weeks, and some results have been quite surprising.

Findecanor

12 Apr 2019, 23:17

samuelcable wrote:
19 Mar 2019, 13:07
Note the realforce bottom row. ive come quite comfortable with it
The best bottom row IMHO. The modifiers you use the most are big and in the right positions.

It's got so much hate because Filco doesn't use it. "Oh, It's non-standard. Bwa bwa bwa". :roll:
(Late reply, but still)

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Telstar

16 Apr 2019, 03:22

depletedvespene wrote:
12 Apr 2019, 23:09
Be sure to test it out a lot first before actually doing a custom keyboard. I'm in the middle of that these weeks, and some results have been quite surprising.
Finally got ahold of a TKL.
First impression is good, especially for mouse usage. Lack of numpad is not as dramatic as I thought. What is bad is the place of the operational keys in the middle (as per ITA layout). So the first thing i did was to remap 3 of the useless directionals with / - + in a way that mimicked my muscle memory, and move the home button to the left. it leaves 2 useless keys (pause and mode/fn/whatever) and the END key that is not in the best place.

I'm also debating the usefulness of the arrow keys, but in office works they are needed. I kinda feel they are a bit far off, so perhaps a layout like the Leopold FC980M but just operationals a the right instead of a full numpad to the right could be nice.

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depletedvespene

16 Apr 2019, 04:00

Sounds to me that a 75% layout would be the most comfortable for your particular usage and preferences.

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Telstar

16 Apr 2019, 04:37

Agreed. With a little customization, that's the closest thing :)

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