Has your keyboard enthusiasm ever decreased?

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

03 Jul 2015, 16:45

jbondeson wrote: I had a F660C and really didn't like it. Topre is just like any other switch: some love it, some hate it, and most are probably indifferent.

They're also very expensive so you do have some post-purchase rationalization that muddies the issue as well. ;)
Now that's an interesting point about Topre. A lot people "expect" and "envision" some magic switch that will blow everything else away. And then when they got one sitting in front of them...

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Muirium
µ

03 Jul 2015, 16:45

That's what 002's touring Realforce is for. True, I had sky high expectations. When it arrived: they were met 100%. Quite unlike Matias switches and Mitsumi, alas.

Don't forget their sky high resale value!

I love the HHKB to bits. If I were rich and silly, I'd buy a non-Type-S for comparison, and maybe a silenced Realforce TKL as well. Might even be able to make a profit out of it if I then resold them, as I'd be bootlegging them into Europe on bloody principle!

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

03 Jul 2015, 16:47

You're also a self proclaimed "Topre snob" Mu. :mrgreen:

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Muirium
µ

03 Jul 2015, 16:48

Yup. IBM and Topre are where I'm at. IBM was cheap and easy to try. Topre should not have been, but thanks to 002 it was!

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HzFaq

03 Jul 2015, 16:50

seebart wrote:
HzFaq wrote: FWIW, I don't like my HHKB.
You being serious? You don't like it at all?
Yeah, seriously. For me the switches are alright, not great and the layout (including the FN layer) just doesn't work for me. I'd like to try a proper Realforce at some point to see if that feels any different to the HHKBs switches but I'm in no real rush.


edit - Seems apt that I'm seebarting this in reply to seebart but to elaborate a little, I really like the split backspace and control in capslocks position next to A, but everything else about it just grates. Probably because I'm an ISO user and it's an ANSI board really. Oh, and the FN layer is totally contra to my philosophy which is using the keys on the bottom left/right corners of boards to activate FN layers based around the home row.
Last edited by HzFaq on 03 Jul 2015, 17:04, edited 3 times in total.

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

03 Jul 2015, 16:51

Muirium wrote: Yup. IBM and Topre are where I'm at. IBM was cheap and easy to try. Topre should not have been, but thanks to 002 it was!
So what about you're little Cherry adventure. How did that go.
HzFaq wrote:
seebart wrote:
HzFaq wrote: FWIW, I don't like my HHKB.
You being serious? You don't like it at all?
Yeah, seriously. For me the switches are alright, not great and the layout (including the FN layer) just doesn't work for me. I'd like to try a proper Realforce at some point to see if that feels any different to the HHKBs switches but I'm in no real rush.
From what I remember the Realforce has supreme build quality. So yes the Topre switch might feel a little different in the Realforce. Since you own both, what's your take on that comparision Mu?

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Muirium
µ

03 Jul 2015, 16:57

The force is strong with Seebart today. First, @Hz:

The Realforce is a pretty decent safety net! But if the switches aren't really doing it for you, better to explore further afield. Topres are brilliant all in one packages, but customisation is lacklustre thanks to Topre refusing to sell HiPro caps and such. They really are the Apple of keyboards, fine stuff without a care for playing with the other brats!


Now, to answer Seebart:

I'm too headachey for close up work like switch modding, so the Cherry campaign is on pause until better conditions on the ground. I'll pose caps, sure, but I ain't modding pesky little switches!

As for HHKB vs. Realforce switch feel: HHKB makes them lighter, and more supple on bottoming out. I wouldn't say mushy, like a weak PCB mount MX board. There's a lot more plastic in the HHKB than that. But the Realforce's metal plate definitely makes a difference. My taste likes the HHKB better. But I know 002 is a fan of the metal. It's a noble enough choice.

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

03 Jul 2015, 17:04

That's cool. I'm a fan of the metal plate too. And not just in RF. Yeah switch modding is serious work. This is usually the time of day I hit the road on my bike. But since it's about 35 celcius outside today I decided to stay here and post the shit out of DT. So my biking energy has got to go into posting now. I might add some stuff to the wiki later. tactica is watching me closely over there, at my own request. He's not an "easy camper" either. But nothing like Beardsmore.

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Muirium
µ

03 Jul 2015, 17:09

Beardsmore clubbed the shit out of me a few times over matters of the wiki. You think the road is hard on your head? Have I got news for you…

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samuelnsh

03 Jul 2015, 17:12

seebart wrote:
samuelnsh wrote: Seeing how a lot of you stopped growing your collection after getting an HHKB... I'm kinda worried about getting one and letting it end my keyboard hobby :(.

Should I just get one and end the money sinkhole (though so far it's less a sinkhole than headphones for me :P), or should I wait for another few years? :D
No it did not work for me that way because HHKB is not even in my top 5 favorites. I do like the Topre switch, but I'm not a 60% type of guy. Now if I got a Realforce that might change. Might not. The only two reasons I'm not buying as many keyboards anymore is that I got a lot of what I wanted by now. My quest was to own one of each that I thought I would like. There is not much left, that I know of! Have you been able to try the Topre switch? You might not like it!
I actually do own a 87u 10th anni variable and a HiPro! I love both of them, but having them didn't stop me from continuing to seek out other types of keyboards. They are great, but each of them have minor annoyances (to me) such that they didn't give me a perfect Topre experience. I think HHKB has the potential to outshine them.

The 87u is variable, while I'm quite fine with it being variable, I MIGHT have regretted a little over the years, and MIGHT prefer a uniformly weighted keyboard (it hurts me to admit not loving the 10th anni 100%). As for the HiPro, it's a fun keyboard to play with, but the tall keycaps make typing a bit more tiring in some cases. I have half a mind to get an HHKB or a uniform Realforce to achieve that perfect Topre experience. However, seeing how some forum members put it, and seeing how I already like Topre a lot, a perfect Topre experience might just be what it takes to end the hobby!

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

03 Jul 2015, 17:13

Muirium wrote: Beardsmore clubbed the shit out of me a few times over matters of the wiki. You think the road is hard on your head? Have I got news for you…
I believe that. He was very strict about wiki entry's and edits. Which is understandable. We did not have a picture of an XT until I added mine yesterday at the request of tactica.

http://deskthority.net/wiki/IBM_Model_F

I want to add my Micro Switch to the wiki but that will take some work. Good thing I got all the pictures from my write up, I'll use some of those.

OK that's cool samuelnsh. It's all preference. Welcome to DT btw. ;) Show us some pics of you're HiPro if you want.

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Muirium
µ

03 Jul 2015, 17:24

Hi Sam. Don't worry too hard about the HHKB. It's my favourite keyboard bar none, but didn't stop me. It recalibrated my expectations (I'm serious about being a snob) but did not kick my enthusiasm to the curb. Instead, I want to improve it (smaller chassis, Bluetooth that lasts longer than a glass of Guiness) and to find the cream of the crop in the oldies too. Novelty's no longer enough.

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samuelnsh

03 Jul 2015, 19:04

Muirium wrote: Hi Sam. Don't worry too hard about the HHKB. It's my favourite keyboard bar none, but didn't stop me. It recalibrated my expectations (I'm serious about being a snob) but did not kick my enthusiasm to the curb. Instead, I want to improve it (smaller chassis, Bluetooth that lasts longer than a glass of Guiness) and to find the cream of the crop in the oldies too. Novelty's no longer enough.
Sounds good, I won't hesitate on the supposedly perfect Topre keyboard then :D
In your opinion though, would you prefer an HHKB Pro 2 or a uniform 45g Realforce? I've never owned an HHKB, so the only thing for me to go with is other people's opinion. I don't mind adapting to the HHKB layout if that has the better feeling keys!

I also have half a mind to go for the Realforce 55g 10th anni... love the color scheme. But the ebay asking price is pretty much double a standard 45g uniform :(

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Muirium
µ

03 Jul 2015, 19:18

Tellingly, I haven't even considered the 10th anniversaries. The two Topres in my possession are an HHKB Type-S, which I love to bits, and a uniform 55g Realforce TKL, which is also among the very best keyboards I have. Both are white, of course. I prefer the HHKB. For many reasons, including its layout. If I preferred TKL to 60% though, I could see that being different.

55g metal plate mount is an interesting change to 45g plastic mount Topre in the HHKB. I like having both! But as much as I want to like them equally, it's not happening. The HHKB magic is strong with me!

davkol

03 Jul 2015, 22:11

Topre circlejerk :roll:

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Muirium
µ

03 Jul 2015, 23:27

Sounds like a compelling argument you've got there. Where's the whiteboard?

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ShivaYash

04 Jul 2015, 01:29

seebart wrote:
samuelnsh wrote: Seeing how a lot of you stopped growing your collection after getting an HHKB... I'm kinda worried about getting one and letting it end my keyboard hobby :(.

Should I just get one and end the money sinkhole (though so far it's less a sinkhole than headphones for me :P), or should I wait for another few years? :D
No it did not work for me that way because HHKB is not even in my top 5 favorites. I do like the Topre switch, but I'm not a 60% type of guy. Now if I got a Realforce that might change. Might not. The only two reasons I'm not buying as many keyboards anymore is that I got a lot of what I wanted by now. My quest was to own one of each that I thought I would like. There is not much left, that I know of! Have you been able to try the Topre switch? You might not like it!
HzFaq wrote: FWIW, I don't like my HHKB.
You being serious? You don't like it at all?
I was the same but then got into it... its worth it. But for me, chiming in a little late, the SSK rocks, the HHKB is my travel board, and I have brand new Topre 87u 55g caps that I barely use. I know what it feels like to plateau and then feel like the search is over. This is why I am moving into trackballs now...! And learning just how incredibly good and versatile KARABINER is, with email support from the man who wrote it!

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Muirium
µ

04 Jul 2015, 02:09

Brand new 55g caps? Do you have a Realforce or what, Shiva? (I remember you importing a few once, so I guess you must at least have tried them!)

The SSK is the battleaxe I use when I need to bash skulls and leave no survivors. (I mean that in a good way.) But the HHKB is the better, more finessed, elegant, and measured board for me. The TKL Realforce is a fine piece of kit as well, on par with the SSK, but the wee man is king.

zts

04 Jul 2015, 02:52

Keyboards and similar hobbies are not that usual ... I mean, you can't really say, "Hey, I like keyboards like the next guy," because the next guy, statistically, is likely not to care at all ... and the next one after him ... and the next ... . The enthusiasm for it will go up and down over time, but will rarely become completely extinct. Just a burn out phase. Interestingly, IMO the peeps who have one "rare" hobby in which they displayed a strong enthusiasm for longer periods of time, usually have at least two or three other hobbies that are equally rare -- for example, for me they are Japanese fountain pens, Japanese paper, and Hamilton automatic/kinetic watches. Weird stuff :shock: At first glance, they are totally unrelated, but I see it myself as a result of being fascinated by some extraordinary level of art-like precision mechanics and superior craftsmanship. These type of interests rarely just disappear, because in everyday life you are reminded all the time why you chose Topre or SSK over a free keyboard that came with the system. Yep ... it's just a phase that probably everyone goes through once in awhile.

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fohat
Elder Messenger

05 Jul 2015, 04:44

zts wrote: it's just a phase that probably everyone goes through once in awhile.
I will probably never "get around to it" but if I ever have the spare time/energy/money/motivation I really want to build one of my F-122s into a steampunk behemoth. I'm thinking of a copper/walnut theme ....

That would allow me to craft something amazing that I would actually use every day.

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Blaise170
ALPS キーボード

05 Jul 2015, 08:06

I've largely stopped buying boards. I am working on my end game keyboard now and I'm selling pretty much the entire rest of my collection. By the time I'm done I'm hoping to only have my Keycool RGB, IBM Pingmaster, and some kind of Alps TKL. I'll use the Keycool on my desktop, the Pingmaster on my old PC/XT Leading Edge, and the Alps TKL for travel. The only boards I'm buying now are for rare switches that I'm looking for (still need a few Alps SKCM/SKCC to finish my collection :( ) or for keycaps.

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Muirium
µ

05 Jul 2015, 13:45

Keeping a Keycool?

Did you already throw out your meds?
Did I?

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

05 Jul 2015, 13:53

Muirium wrote: Keeping a Keycool?

Did you already throw out your meds?
Did I?
If you stare at the Keycool RGB long enough you wont need any more meds! Unless you get into bicycle "stunts" like Mu! :mrgreen:

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Muirium
µ

05 Jul 2015, 14:24

Keyboard backlights remind me of those far too bright LED bike lights people are into now. Why thank you sir, why the fuck should I deserve to see while in your luminous presence…

I like catching them up hills and giving them a piece of my mind. But really I should just brick their lights. It's a plague.

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fohat
Elder Messenger

05 Jul 2015, 14:40

Muirium wrote:
those far too bright LED lights

It's a plague.
Get used to it.

LEDs are 1000x more efficient in every way and are the lights of the future.

Never mind that their spectrum is bad, they cast hideous shadows, and cause considerable eye pain.

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Muirium
µ

05 Jul 2015, 14:41

Yeah, I'm currently looking for a convenient handlebar mount for a truncheon so I can smack them on sight.

Aim your lights at the ground, fine by me. Aim them up into my eyes, and I have some feedback I'd like to make.

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Blaise170
ALPS キーボード

05 Jul 2015, 19:44

Muirium wrote: Keeping a Keycool?

Did you already throw out your meds?
Did I?
Honestly I like it better than my old Ducky Shine. And I like the Kailhs too...

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

05 Jul 2015, 19:45

yes my keyboard enthusiasm just decreased after reading this:

http://deskthority.net/vendors-f52/the- ... ml#p241023

:cry:

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bhtooefr

05 Jul 2015, 20:07

There's certainly times where I'm less enthusiastic about keyboards, and just use the nearest one attached to the machine I want to use (because I'm primarily a laptop user, that means the scissor-stabilized rubber dome attached to the laptop).

Times like when I'm really not liking my 122 F because it's too frictiony, and my Matias board needs a replacement USB cable made... I need to just get a USB socket and solder up a short cable to plug into the controller, so I can use replaceable USB cables.

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ShivaYash

05 Jul 2015, 23:11

Muirium wrote: Brand new 55g caps? Do you have a Realforce or what, Shiva? (I remember you importing a few once, so I guess you must at least have tried them!)

The SSK is the battleaxe I use when I need to bash skulls and leave no survivors. (I mean that in a good way.) But the HHKB is the better, more finessed, elegant, and measured board for me. The TKL Realforce is a fine piece of kit as well, on par with the SSK, but the wee man is king.
Yep, I have a brand spanking new Realforce 87u boxed, I used for about 10 minutes on Christmas day but then upon getting home, my SSK arrived and the RF has been boxed ever since. The second unit was sold.

I'm using the HHKB at work more and more now and its a very nice board, but for me, the SSK wins.

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