Damped NovaTouch vs. Topre Realforce and HHKB

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Muirium
µ

05 Aug 2015, 16:48

Here's a five minute video of me nattering about, and typing on, my four Topre switch keyboards:
It's a bit blurry at times — just an iPhone 4S! — and the sound levels won't be a perfect perspective on these boards either, but I managed to keep the story straight at any rate.

The damped NovaTouch is something of a star. I gathered the others together to put it into perspective. What a difference a set of these makes…

Image

Any questions — especially those caused by my quick talking without a script — don't be afraid to ask.

User avatar
chzel

05 Aug 2015, 17:05

Great video!
The rings make a ton of difference!
Also, you should have used an F instead of the SSK! That'd teach them noise!

andrewjoy

05 Aug 2015, 17:13

that pbt spacebar makes all the difference it sounds far better than the default one i tested.

the dampers make the novatouch sound amazing. Much More like the realforce.

You also sound much younger than i expected.

You did however spoil your loverly rubber dome video with a real mechanical at the end :).

Is that your formerly NIB one or one of the pre-loved ones ?

cooldiscretion

05 Aug 2015, 17:18

I'll second that, that was a really good video. For not having a script you seemed pretty focused. I would probably say umm and blabber a ton if I made a video without a script. :D

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Redmaus
Gotta start somewhere

05 Aug 2015, 17:23

Man those caps are amazing.

I agree with chzel too the model F sound is divine and blows anything else away.

Not to be mean, but I thought tow-pray was a little funny because it seems everyone pronounces topre different.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

05 Aug 2015, 17:27

It's my way. And it's legit!
002 wrote: Speaking of YouTube videos. Here's one with the actual Topre pronunciation within the first 10 seconds :)
cooldiscretion wrote: I'll second that, that was a really good video. For not having a script you seemed pretty focused. I would probably say umm and blabber a ton if I made a video without a script. :D
Ah, you see, I "rehearsed." As in that was my second attempt after I accidentally failed to record the first take. Bloody iPhone just shot a picture that time instead! I turned up the screen brightness and double checked after that, which is why I sound a little distracted at the start.


@Andy: Yup, the PBT spacebar is extra thocky on the Realforce and HHKB. But I think most of what you heard on 002's was some stabs in need of lube. The stock spacebars were fine on my two, noise wise.

Heh, glad people imagine me as some grumbly old git! But you've already heard my positively childlike glee when Round 5 arrived.

The IBM intruder on the oneness with cup rubber party is my $25 Cindy special, with Phosphorglow USB controller in it. My main SSK. I'm keeping the NIB as NIB as possible! No need to spoil it quite yet.

Overall, obviously, I'm mightily impressed at how much better the NovaTouch is now. It's by far my favourite keyboard for Round 5 caps, and currently in a one on one duel with my Realforce for the coveted work desk spot. I'll settle it by pulling out the Kishsaver if things get violent.
chzel wrote: Also, you should have used an F instead of the SSK! That'd teach them noise!
I was rapidly running out of desk space, even with all these TKLs! The original plan was to show the Cherry MX Board 6.0 to highlight how surprisingly loud MX red is compared to these guys, and I considered the Kishsaver alongside the SSK. But no room to shoot them properly all at once. I might as well make a series of videos of the boards I've got, like Chyros but with more unobtainium!

colomb

06 Aug 2015, 02:41

Muirium,

Did we go shiny side up or down for the dampening rings? Also, are you testing those Topre PBT spacebars for Matt3o, or have they started shipping?

noobie94

06 Aug 2015, 08:57

HHKB sounds so good, damn! I should use mine more often (not silent version)

I am not sure if I should be happy or not that my Novatouch will arrive this afternoon :? the sound is really..ewwww :cry:

zts

06 Aug 2015, 09:58

Great stuff, Mu!!! I think I'm biased towards RF typing sound, but that NovaTouch seems to be really improved with the silencing rings.

User avatar
002
Topre Enthusiast

06 Aug 2015, 10:21

He speaks! Nice vid, man. It seems we must have both had caricature ideas of each other's accents as you definitely don't sound like Groundskeeper Willie to me and I guess I don't really sound like Steve Irwin or Crocodile Dundee :)

Realforce is still #1 in the sound department in my books although oddly enough I did like the sound of the NovaTouch *without* the damping rings, which makes sense as I didn't really think much of the Type-S HHKB when I had it.

User avatar
Khers

06 Aug 2015, 11:35

Yet another one thinking you don't sound as Scottish as I'd imagined, Mu, but the video was nice despite this revelation :)

I think that out of the Topres I've got I prefer the sound of the boggo standard HHKB. I haven't tried a standard RF87, since mine is silenced but the sound of the 55g in the vid makes me intrigued, but perhaps not enough to get yet another keyboard.

The root of my verdict is that, imo, there is too large an inconsistency in the sound of the silenced RF and HHKB, with the spacebar (more specifically the stabilizer) being the odd man out. The spacebar probably makes as much noise on the standard HHKB, but since the other keys makes more noise, it's better camouflaged.

Despite this, I'm mostly using the Type-S since the silenced keys are more office-friendly. Before getting the Type-S I did try to silence the standard HHKB using dental elastics. That, however, was a giant fail. Not only did the sound prove too inconsistent for my liking, it also ruined the feel. I would have wanted some of Hyper's silencing rings, but alas the shipping was too high for me to even consider.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

06 Aug 2015, 14:06

I can do a range of accents. That was me trying to be comprehendible! I'm different after a few at the pub.

Oddly enough, I think I silenced my NovaTouch spacebar better than Topre did on the HHKB Type-S. So I might try modding it the same way. I added some bits of foam that Cookie sent me with his earlier prototype silencing rings. The stabiliser is the key. And yes, the HHKB Type-S is a bit unbalanced without those sorted out.


@002: No worries mate, you'll always sound like Steve Irwin to me. Specially now that I know you're a loonie. Balls out, you like the sound of a rattly NovaTouch? Jeezo…


@Colomb: Samples from the man himself. I've no dealings with MassDrop. Too expensive!


Speaking of which: I'm serious. We need to organise something and do a European GB for these rings. They're essential.

User avatar
seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

06 Aug 2015, 14:13

Muirium wrote: I can do a range of accents.
Next time I wanna hear Scotty from the Enterprise. :mrgreen:

User avatar
002
Topre Enthusiast

06 Aug 2015, 14:20

Muirium wrote: Specially now that I know you're a loonie.
Get outta here, you flaming galah. How can a bloke who mungs out on sheep guts call another bloke a loonie!? Dead set drongo.

Really though, it's just the sound I like. No idea how they feel.
I really ought to get my hands on a NovaTouch one of these days but I guess I'm just waiting for Rev 2.0 :)

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

06 Aug 2015, 14:22

002 wrote:
Muirium wrote: Specially now that I know you're a loonie.
Get outta here, you flaming galah. How can a bloke who mungs out on sheep guts call another bloke a loonie!? Dead set drongo.
:o

User avatar
Hypersphere

06 Aug 2015, 14:29

Regarding the pacebar on the HHKB Pro 2, in addition to installing a silencing ring on the switch, I lubed the stabilizers and attached small squares of self-adhesive foam strips (about 1 mm thick) to the two stops on the top of the case under the spacebar. This treatment yields a dramatic attenuation of the spacebar noise.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

06 Aug 2015, 14:36

Yup. I'm considering a spot of stab damping on the Realforce while I'm at it. I like the native Realforce sound, but loud spacebars aren't my thing. I prefer all keys to sound alike.


@002: Likely a wise move on the NovaTouch, seeing as you're well equipped with Topre in the meantime! I've no insider info on it at all, but Bram knows where to find me and if I turn all "no comment" about it, you can tell interesting times are ahead!

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002
Topre Enthusiast

06 Aug 2015, 14:47

Yes our lovable CM rep is very tight-lipped about future projects :)
I actually have a keyboard of theirs right now -- going to review it later this month I hope!

As for Realforce spacebar sound. I wonder if it could be improved simply with lube? I have EK Mechlube (both types) on the way to me right now actually so I'll put it to the test on my work board. I got it for my Libertouch which has squeaky tabs.

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Muirium
µ

06 Aug 2015, 14:52

Ah! I won't needle you would questions like "Topre or MX?" the review can tell me all about it when the time is right.

Lube is something I often talk about but so far haven't used. (Any cackling 14 year olds in the audience: we're talking keyboards here, damn it!) Certainly seems like something all wire stabs need. I await your results.

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002
Topre Enthusiast

06 Aug 2015, 15:07

MX for this one :)
Regarding lube, you know I can't believe it's taken me this long to bother with it. It was really in vogue there a while back with all the RO-59 and Krytox and "zomg Alps are so much better if you just do dis" and blah blah. I was content with my Realforce back then and still am, although the reports of the squeaky space on the tour board are concerning.

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Muirium
µ

06 Aug 2015, 15:16

I'm skeptical about lubing inside modular switches. It's fiddly, I don't like working at that kind of scale anyway, and specifically Alps are notorious for degrading with dirt anyway, which makes restoring them seem like a hellish proposition to me! I might try with my orange Alps AEK someday, but it'll take some self convincing…

Large items like stabs, though, are a bit of a no brainer. If you have the lube! I'm fearful of just dabbing some Vaseline or the like in there. The mess to remove it, blech. And the chance it'll react with the plastic, ugh. Needs to be a proven lube.

User avatar
002
Topre Enthusiast

06 Aug 2015, 15:21

Lubing Alps is definitely a tedious looking process. From memory it's not what you might have in mind where you apply a kind of viscous gel like Vas to it. It looks more like you paint the sliders with a lube that looks like it has a much runnier consistency and dries clear and hard. Maybe something like nail polish? I don't know...but I am pretty sure it's not a sloppy dust-magnet style lube like what you find on a Realforce's left Ctrl key.

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Muirium
µ

06 Aug 2015, 15:29

Yeah, I vaguely remember pictures of springs fresh from a lube bath from when I've looked into this before. Could be a common procedure for Alps and MX. But just opening those vicious little bastards! And all the work in getting there, blocked by the damn plate.

Gimme the four dozen screws Topre takeapart any day.

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

06 Aug 2015, 15:36

Lubing a full size Alps board would take me day(s). I'm not exaggerating.If you got nothing better to do and that board is even worth the effort.

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Khers

06 Aug 2015, 15:43

I tried my hand at lubing some MX switches back when I built myself am ErgoDox a while back. Wouldn't really want to do it again. It was a tremendous undertaking, I ended up with neck pain after sitting with my neck bent for so long and in the end I wasn't terribly satisfied with the end result.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

06 Aug 2015, 15:45

Cock. It'd probably take me a week. I get angry with fiddly wee stuff, and then make more mistakes.

Fortunately for me only two of my Alps boards show much sign of dirt and use. The orange Alps AEK I, and a green Alps Zenith ZKB1. (They're both still in America for later pickup.) The Apple Extended's caps are awesome, I must try them on a nice fresh AEK II. The Zenith, well, someone with more patience perhaps than me…

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Redmaus
Gotta start somewhere

06 Aug 2015, 18:30

Muirium wrote: Cock. It'd probably take me a week. I get angry with fiddly wee stuff, and then make more mistakes.

Fortunately for me only two of my Alps boards show much sign of dirt and use. The orange Alps AEK I, and a green Alps Zenith ZKB1. (They're both still in America for later pickup.) The Apple Extended's caps are awesome, I must try them on a nice fresh AEK II. The Zenith, well, someone with more patience perhaps than me…
Hey I have a chance to get a whole zenith system that has yellow alps for like 40$. Should I go for it?

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

06 Aug 2015, 18:33

I would. Got a pic?

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Redmaus
Gotta start somewhere

06 Aug 2015, 18:39

no :oops:

User avatar
Muirium
µ

06 Aug 2015, 18:47

Some people really rave about those linear Alps. Mine, well, I couldn't tell for all the caked old dirt.

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