Need help with keyboard construction

Muirium · 25 Aug 2015, 18:13

Wireless will be difficult. As far as I know, nobody in the community has even made a split wireless keyboard before.

Muirium · 25 Aug 2015, 22:39

Good luck with that. Wireless keyboard design, especially the PCB layout and software, is nontrivial. I've stumbled over this hurdle a few times. Years ago, I built a keyboard I intended to contain a wireless controller, but it went nowhere as I couldn't find anyone willing to collaborate. The plate and case was easy enough, so it wound up being USB. A later sub 60% project picked up a teammate for the case, but again the controller and PCB proved more work than anyone could pitch in for free.

Redmaus · 25 Aug 2015, 22:47

Muirium wrote: ↑Good luck with that. Wireless keyboard design, especially the PCB layout and software, is nontrivial. I've stumbled over this hurdle a few times. Years ago, I built a keyboard I intended to contain a wireless controller, but it went nowhere as I couldn't find anyone willing to collaborate. The plate and case was easy enough, so it wound up being USB. A later sub 60% project picked up a teammate for the case, but again the controller and PCB proved more work than anyone could pitch in for free.

Still pining after bluetooth for your kishsaver?

Muirium · 25 Aug 2015, 22:51

I want Bluetooth in everything. But right now, I've got it in nothing! Just my Apple Wireless Keyboard, the one I had before getting into mechs in the first place. I had no interest in USB keyboards then. Still strikes me as dumb that I have no choice now!

(Also, don't mass quote a larger message directly above yours. It's very GH! Just hit Quick Reply and type. Like this.)

flabbergast · 25 Aug 2015, 22:54

It's got a lot easier to make a BT keyboard these days with gadgets like Adafruit's EZ-Key (or if you're willing to go BLE then LE Micro even has atmega32u4 integrated on board). The problem I have with things like this is battery life - they (I mean proper BT, not BLE) consume huuge amount of current, so you get a battery life a couple of hours (like hasu's HHKB controller).

Redmaus · 25 Aug 2015, 23:01

out of stock ;(

Muirium · 25 Aug 2015, 23:03

@Flabbergast: Yup. I've a lot of respect for Hasu (thanks for all the TMK! even if I don't understand code well enough to use it myself) but a few hours battery life is a neat proof of concept, not a practical keyboard. The Bluetooth Model M at one of the maker sites had the same problem.

My first Bluetooth mech will be one of my SSKs, once Phosphorglow's made me his latest gen controller. I'm already using the original (USB only) and it's great. An EZkey and battery stuff lies in my drawer, waiting for the upgrade. Phosphor's getting much better than a few hours of battery out of his. He could be the guy to talk to actually.

Dan · 26 Aug 2015, 18:45

flabbergast wrote: ↑...I mean proper BT, not BLE...

What do you mean by "proper" BT? Isn't the Low Energy BT preferable for a keyboard?

flabbergast · 26 Aug 2015, 18:55

Dan wrote: ↑What do you mean by "proper" BT? Isn't the Low Energy BT preferable for a keyboard?

I just meant to distinguish between BLE and previous bluetooth versions.

I'd say it (=BLE) is preferable, modulo some "recent technology" problems, like not working on Windows <= 7 and some Macbooks as recent as 2013. Other than that, the great advantage (as advertised by name) is that it should require much less juice.

hasu · 26 Aug 2015, 22:55

Muirium wrote: ↑@Flabbergast: Yup. I've a lot of respect for Hasu (thanks for all the TMK! even if I don't understand code well enough to use it myself) but a few hours battery life is a neat proof of concept, not a practical keyboard. The Bluetooth Model M at one of the maker sites had the same problem.

Around 12 hours with 1000mA :p It dpends on battery capacity of course.
Mainly because of Topre capacitive switches and BT module RN-42 without fine-grained power control.

My first Bluetooth mech will be one of my SSKs, once Phosphorglow's made me his latest gen controller. I'm already using the original (USB only) and it's great. An EZkey and battery stuff lies in my drawer, waiting for the upgrade. Phosphor's getting much better than a few hours of battery out of his. He could be the guy to talk to actually.

I don't think it is so longer than my HHKB BT controller. Bluefruit EZkey also doesn't seem to have good power control.
But membrane (and mechanical) switches can be scaned with lower power consumption than capacitive swiches and Model M has huge cavity for battery, these can lengthen battery life in the end. But to get weeks and months battery life we need to handle fine grained power control of BT module but I think modules like RN-42 and EZkey have no the fine grained power control, instead, they offer 'easy to use' at cost of power saving.

flabbergast · 26 Aug 2015, 23:16

hasu wrote: ↑Around 12 hours with 1000mA :p It depends on battery capacity of course.
Mainly because of Topre capacitive switches and BT module RN-42 without fine-grained power control.

That's pretty good (from my point of view of microcontroller enthusiast) - I am curious - do you use a module which has better power control, or tweak it manually somehow?
On the other hand - from the point of view of a keyboard user - I must agree with Muirium that it's not there yet.

hasu wrote: ↑ ... but I think modules like RN-42 and EZkey have no the fine grained power control, instead, they offer 'easy to use' at cost of power saving.

I agree here, EZ-Key FAQ says 25mA continuously, transmitting 27mA. That's too much for a battery powered keyboard solution I think.

I am curious about the power requirements for the BLE modules...

hasu · 27 Aug 2015, 02:31

I bought a nrf51822 board months ago but have not had enough time to play with and I don't know how well it performs yet. Some people in the community trying this BLE chip so I hope we will see great fruition before so long.

Besides Bluetooth you can use proprietry wireless technologies and we already have seen some people got huge success. kile reported his keyboard worked for a year just with a coin cell battery.

http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/stee ... t5929.html
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40880.0

b1gtuna · 27 Aug 2015, 06:06

hasu wrote: ↑I bought a nrf51822 board months ago but have not had enough time to play with and I don't know how well it performs yet. Some people in the community trying this BLE chip so I hope we will see great fruition before so long.

Besides Bluetooth you can use proprietry wireless technologies and we already have seen some people got huge success. kile reported his keyboard worked for a year just with a coin cell battery.

http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/stee ... t5929.html
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40880.0

Ya I think BLE is the way to go too. I also am picking up BMD-200 (nrf51822) tomorrow and have made a breakout board for it[1]. Really hope BLE is the saving grace for all of us. I really respect Hasu's wireless mods. 40+ hours per charge would be ideal though!

[1] https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/f1aGKcII