homing bumps on other keys!

mr_a500

01 Nov 2015, 19:51

No, I mean specific posts, like :
http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/hom ... ml#p262721

(yes, I just accidentally found out how to do it and answered my own question)

Here's a 60's IBM 2260 - notice no deep dish on F&J. (see full size)
IBM 2260.jpg
Last edited by mr_a500 on 01 Nov 2015, 20:01, edited 2 times in total.

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Muirium
µ

01 Nov 2015, 19:57

In general: grab the URL by selecting the little file icon beside the post time, under the user's name and avatar. Right click, copy link, ought to do it.

mr_a500

01 Nov 2015, 19:59

Oh! Thanks. It's not that obvious. I was looking over at the bunch of icons below the post.

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scottc

01 Nov 2015, 20:05

It took me embarrassingly long to find that post icon too. It's not exactly jumping out!

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Muirium
µ

01 Nov 2015, 20:10

60s pre-beamspring IBM computer keyboard, eh? I've heard of them before, but that could be the first picture I've seen. Nice Selectric/beamspring style caps. Were IBMs even clicky back then?

mr_a500

01 Nov 2015, 20:12

That's the first you've seen of the 2260? Now I know you haven't been paying attention to my posts. I've posted at least 6 different photos of that thing.

I'd love to find out what switch is in that thing. It came out in 1964, so it can't be beam spring.

A few more photos:

Image
Image
2260 UW Canada.jpg
IBM 2260 1.JPG
...and the weird version with only numeric keypad:

Image
Last edited by mr_a500 on 03 Nov 2015, 17:32, edited 1 time in total.

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

01 Nov 2015, 20:22

I've seen the 2260 before, but the picture with that kid is awesome. They had small headsets like that?!?

mr_a500

01 Nov 2015, 20:27

I think that picture with the kid is around 1968-1971. Even then, everything looks super high-tech.

Notice the variants of the 2260: black surround on monitor, or just white; black around keyboard, or just white; black & blue keys, or just blue. I've never seen a numeric keypad only terminal before.

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

01 Nov 2015, 20:40

mr_a500 wrote: ...and the weird version with only numeric keypad:
You gotta find a better picture of that. :shock:

mr_a500

01 Nov 2015, 20:45

How's this :P :

Image
http://www.starringthecomputer.com/appe ... =660&c=111

No, I can't find any better pictures, but I know it's real. I read a 2260 manual pdf somewhere where it was listed as an option.

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

01 Nov 2015, 20:47

Yeah that's better. I have no doubt it's real. Real and super rare.

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joc

01 Nov 2015, 21:25

mr_a500 wrote: I'd love to find out what switch is in that thing. It came out in 1964, so it can't be beam spring.
The IBM 2260 keyboard was an electromechanical system similar to the IBM 029 keyboard. See chapter 2, page 17 (physical page 61) here.

Here's a screenshot of the alphanumeric and numeric keyboards from the linked PDF:
ibm_2260_keyboards.png
ibm_2260_keyboards.png (624.43 KiB) Viewed 1346 times

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

01 Nov 2015, 21:38


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joc

01 Nov 2015, 21:53

Sure, no problem. It was a lucky find. When I Google "IBM 2260 keyboard" on my laptop, the PDF isn't in the search results - I only see it when I Google "IBM 2260 keyboard" on my smartphone.

I like the vintage look of that announcement brochure.

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

01 Nov 2015, 21:59

There is actually quite a bit of information online about these old systems, but obviously never with the sole focus on the keyboards.

mr_a500

02 Nov 2015, 03:07

Awesome. Thanks joc! So now we finally know the pre beam spring IBM keyboard mechanism - probably also used on the 1130 and 2250. I would have thought the terminals used something different from the keypunch.

I've seen spacebars with "Space" written on them before, but never something so elaborate as "Space/Erase Advance". I also like the "0" with the dot in the centre.

The screen closeup surprised me because of the square "O". That's one thing I hated about the TRS-80 Colour Computer font, but now I see that IBM had it back in 1964.

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joc

02 Nov 2015, 15:37

mr_a500 wrote: Awesome. Thanks joc! So now we finally know the pre beam spring IBM keyboard mechanism - probably also used on the 1130 and 2250. I would have thought the terminals used something different from the keypunch.

I've seen spacebars with "Space" written on them before, but never something so elaborate as "Space/Erase Advance". I also like the "0" with the dot in the centre.

The screen closeup surprised me because of the square "O". That's one thing I hated about the TRS-80 Colour Computer font, but now I see that IBM had it back in 1964.
Yeah, that zero is really unique and eye catching.

I'm even more intrigued by these keyboards after finding out they aren't beam springs. Figure 2-11 on page 64 that shows how the different components of the keyboard mechanism connect is especially interesting. I attempted to make a desktop wallpaper out of it:
ibm_2260_key_position.png
ibm_2260_key_position.png (144.87 KiB) Viewed 1257 times
The first portable system here has a similar shape to the 2260. Is it old enough to not be a beam spring?
Last edited by joc on 02 Nov 2015, 16:24, edited 1 time in total.

mr_a500

02 Nov 2015, 15:51

I didn't think the 2260 keyboard was thick enough to have such a big typewriter-like mechanism.
joc wrote: The first portable system here has a similar shape to the 2260. Is it old enough to not be a beam spring?
Yes, that probably is beam spring because it came out in 1972. The 3270 beam spring terminals came out in 1971 and that's also when the beam spring patent was filed.
Last edited by mr_a500 on 02 Nov 2015, 17:30, edited 2 times in total.

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

02 Nov 2015, 15:55

snuci has one of these right? I'd love to see the internals. Here it is:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/ibm ... 11864.html

mr_a500

02 Nov 2015, 16:00

seebart wrote: snuci has one of these right? I'd love to see the internals. Here it is:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/ibm ... 11864.html
You didn't watch the first video? It shows the internals.

I was right that the 029 keyboard is not completely separate, but that part of it fits into the desk. This makes it look much thinner than it actually is.

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

02 Nov 2015, 16:06

I did watch it. It gives an idea not an overview with details.

mr_a500

30 Dec 2015, 23:01

Totally unrelated to homing bumps, but...

It looks like after the IBM 2260, there was the 2265. I've seen versions that look similar to the 2260, but then there's this (..and check out those prices!):
IBM 2265.jpg
(earliest beam spring or still "typewriter-like"?)

Then there's this later 4979 terminal (post Series-1), guaranteed to be beam spring:
IBM terminals.jpg
I want one of those 4979 terminals!
Last edited by mr_a500 on 30 Dec 2015, 23:11, edited 1 time in total.

mr_a500

30 Dec 2015, 23:05

Back to homing...

Similar to UNIVAC, this 1974 Decision Data keypunch has deep dish on the whole home row (except right pinky).

Image
(HaaTa's photo)

I definitely prefer deep dish whole home row over any other method.

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infodroid

16 May 2016, 15:19

Tabloid newspaper The Sun has allegedly uncovered the origin of the homing bump:
The ridges on these keys were invented to improve keyboard and typewriters by June E Botich in 2002.
That's right folks... You never saw a raised edge on a keycap before 2002 because they weren't invented yet! That is, until June E Botich came along, who was thoughtful enough to also think of the typewriters...

Except this is not true. When you actually look up the relevant patent you find it's not actually what the patent is about. Botich's idea was to have a vertical edge enclosing the outside of each hand on the home row, which means there is a left vertical edge on "A" & "J" and a right vertical edge on "F" & ";". Needless to say, the patent does not actually cover the invention of homing bumps but only a specific application of them. And it should be obvious from some cursory research that Botich's work was already covered by several expired patents. So much for journalism today!
Modified homing keys by June E. Botich (US6667697)
Modified homing keys by June E. Botich (US6667697)
botich.jpg (190.56 KiB) Viewed 1036 times
The earliest homing mechanism is the deep dish, which was patented in 1915 by Richard D. Scott of St. Albans, Vermont (US1148721). The invention aims at "facilitating the location of certain of the key levers by operators using the touch system of typewriting" through the use of keys with "a comparatively deep, dished or concave upper face". It may also take the form of a detachable cap that is fitted over an existing (typically flat) typewriter key. The deep dish cap may be applied to the pinky keys "A" and ";", although it may be fitted on other homing keys as well. Because Scott's patent expired in 1932, one would expect to find a lot more examples of deep dish keycaps after this date.
Concave keycap by Richard D. Scott (US1148721)
Concave keycap by Richard D. Scott (US1148721)
deep-dish.jpg (112.99 KiB) Viewed 1045 times
A later 1942 patent by Frederick W. Messchaert of Oakland, California (US2350059) introduces the homing bump and covers any type of "touch-responsive indicator ... which when touched by the operator will indicate to the operator's senses the position of the predetermined key to which it is fixed". The patent illustrates the mechanism through the use of ball-like and rectangular indicators affixed to the "F" & "J" keys, although it can take any shape or position and can be used on other homing keys. Since the scope of Messchaert's patent covers any sort of homing bump, I imagine it was only until the patent expired in 1961 that they really took off.
Position indicator by Frederick W. Messchaert (US2350059)
Position indicator by Frederick W. Messchaert (US2350059)
indicator-bump.jpg (456.25 KiB) Viewed 1045 times
Despite all of this, the lie that Botich invented the homing bump continues to make its way around social media and less reputable media sources...

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