The perfect mechanical Keyboard...

Shihatsu

21 Feb 2016, 12:30

Hey DT, I am quite new here (been a lurker for quite a while though) and I am badly infected with some kind of virus or something called "mechanical keyboard". Currently the only protection against is my wifes supervising of the families wallet, but I am in uttermost fear that this protection will loosen over time. So, here I am.
First of all, my motivation and history: I do work with this kind of things. It's not just a plaything or a hobby, but also profession. I earn my money using outlook, word, excel and co in the IT, so I am a heavy typist. I am also a gamer in my spare time, focusing almost exclusively on the Blizzard franchise (currently D3 and SC2). Back in the days when I was a single and started my computer job I used to use my dirty, old M2 (and a second one at work). Guess what - both coworkers and wife nowadays tell me it is "to loud", so I switched keyboards years ago towards rubberdomes. A few years later my hands started to dislike those, so I started to switch back. I use a scissorswitch IBM at work currently, which has to be replaced, and a WASD V2 TKL green at home. The collegues at work told me the dampened WASD V2 is still to loud, so I didn't bought another one (which was original my plan: buy the WASD, damp it, test it at work, get an okay, buy another one). I have tried other, quiter switches and none was satisfying as the Greens are - with the exception of Topre 55g, which was "okayish" - but compared to Greens still not as good. So much to hostory / motivation.
One thing you still got to know: I am german. Drastically reduced keyboard options...

So, what I was searching for was a TKL ISO DE with heavy build and aluminium / metallic case. Alu fpr 60s? NP. Alu for TKL? No way. Sturdier build quality than WASD with MX greens in ISO DE? Forget it. One option left: GON. Made a calculation and looked at a 4 digit number. Yeah, funny. Nope, sorry. If I have to go 4-digit, it must be perfect. Aaaaaand here I am. This is my wishlist:

High priority:
-ISO DE TKL
-Heaviest Build Quality possible
-Very clean outfit*
-Metall build
Mid priority:
-Open switches possibility like the phantom
-Case should be anodized, not printed
-Plate mounted
-Seperate Numpad
Low priority:
-LEDs
-Programmable controller

Sound easy, meh? What are your thoughts about it, how could this be done? Could this be done? Did anyone of you had similar ideas?

octovert

21 Feb 2016, 12:53

If you like mechanical switches but need something quiet, take a look at logitech's romer-g switches. The 810 board satisfies some of your requirements at least. And they'll likely put out a tenkeyless version of that later this year.

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Chyros

21 Feb 2016, 13:11

Don't worry mate, I suspect >95% of people here are in IT or related professions xD .

User avatar
Muirium
µ

21 Feb 2016, 13:22

I suggest a new job and a new wife.

Orson

21 Feb 2016, 13:55

Your wishlist immediatly reminded me of UNIQEY: http://www.uniqey.net/
Maybe someday it will finally happen, wonder if it will be this century.

amospalla
let's go

21 Feb 2016, 14:22

I have always been motivated to look at quiet switches by myself. The best switches I've used are these, in order of best tactility/silent relation:
  1. Topre 55g with Hypersphere rings (or Type-S which I have not tried but are supposed to produce a bit less dampening). Incredibly silent.
  2. Matias Quiet, tactile and less quieter than Topre with rings.
  3. Cherry MX Clear, may or may not be enough silent for an office, only downstroke can be dampened right now (see below).
  4. Cherry MX Brown which has the slightest tactility, may or may not be enough silent for an office, only downstroke can be dampened right now (see below).
I am waiting for GMK QMX-Clip sound dampening brackets to be available, just to be able to take off the dust from all my Cherry boards and get a decent modern PCB mounted keyboard so I can play with all those switches again. I can not talk about this dampening system as I have not tried it but I have the impression it will revive the Cherry game for me if I ever get these. This dampening system is supposed to dampen not only key press but also the upstroke.

Amongst them the Cherry ones are the ones I dislike the most, not in a bad sense as I prefer those much better than any rubber dome.

In this list Matias switches have the most sharp and crisp tactile feel, while Topre tactility is soft and kind to the fingers, not as sharp but also more stable with less wooble. Cherry MX tactility is not sharp compared to buckling spring or Alps (Matias).

With this said, have you tried a Model M? It sits in the opposite side you are asking for, but if you really enjoy a Model M2, you will love a Model M. If you are not aware of how one feels and don't want to suffer by not being able to use one, don't try it, ever :roll: . I guess Murium words are somewhat in line with this.

User avatar
Thumper
knock knock

21 Feb 2016, 15:45

All ISO Keyboards are the same, the difference in letters (äöü) makes the operating system.

You might want to check those boards, even tho, they are pretty pricy and need an assembly by yourself.

75% - crunched TKL https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78549.0
TKL https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70864.0

Both boards were sold in a Groupbuy which is over, but you might find some board secondhand.

If you are fine with a metal top plate and acrylic case below it, you can check www.winkeyless.kr . I'm currently typing on a b.87 (older version without metal top plate) and its super sleek. Depending on where you are in Germany we can meet and you can inspect it :)

User avatar
zuglufttier

06 Mar 2016, 11:46

I suggest switching to ANSI US, then map Caps Lock + a to ä and so on. While working in IT, you'll come to like the better placement of /, \, brackets and all other special symbols which were not easy to type before.

idollar
i$

06 Mar 2016, 13:50

So you want to have an FSSK :-)

workshop-f7/f-ssk-t10744.html

High priority:
-ISO DE TKL -> Can be done, not problem
-Heaviest Build Quality possible -> IBM Model M
-Very clean outfit -> You have it
-Metall build -> The internals are metal and PCB. The case is plastic. This is not a problem for me. Actually it is a better feeling than the FMK (workshop-f7/ibm-107-472x-41-53951-lot-o ... 10311.html)

Mid priority:
-Open switches possibility like the phantom -> Model F, open PCB and controller design.
-Case should be anodized, not printed -> Plastic ... Refer to the FMK above
-Plate mounted -> IBM F technology
-Seperate Numpad -> Not possible

Low priority:
-LEDs -> Not possible with xwhatsit.
-Programmable controller -> xwhatsit controller and software are just perfect.

Shihatsu

08 May 2016, 17:13

First of all: Guys, thank you for your help and suggestions (yeah, the latter includes you, Mr. Muirium!). It's been a while since my question, and with a bite of googling, your answers and a tight budget I came to the conclusion that GON is the way to go, and that the budget will probably hit the 1k barrier...
octovert wrote: If you like mechanical switches but need something quiet, take a look at logitech's romer-g switches. The 810 board satisfies some of your requirements at least. And they'll likely put out a tenkeyless version of that later this year.
Quiet, yes, but FAR to soft and you know what - the remember me of browns. I tested these bastards on a 910, and o my god, this is the definition of "what I do NOT want".
Chyros wrote: Don't worry mate, I suspect >95% of people here are in IT or related professions xD .
Just added this to show that I do work with my keyboard, to frighten everybody who says "Your taking to much afford in such a simple thing like a keyboard" - on a second thought this was... quite... dumb. This is deskthority, isn't it?
Muirium wrote: I suggest a new job and a new wife.
You don't know my wife. She would kill me. With one single lash of her eye.
Instead, at least the part with my wife is non-existent. Her rubberdome broke while I was on a business trip. Guess who is driving a brand new Ducky Zero with MX Browns...
Orson wrote: Your wishlist immediatly reminded me of UNIQEY: http://www.uniqey.net/
Maybe someday it will finally happen, wonder if it will be this century.
Like the plate-mounted silencers? Or the keycap shop? Or IBM making keyboards again? ...
amospalla wrote: I have always been motivated to look at quiet switches by myself. The best switches I've used are these, in order of best tactility/silent relation:
  1. Topre 55g with Hypersphere rings (or Type-S which I have not tried but are supposed to produce a bit less dampening). Incredibly silent.
  2. Matias Quiet, tactile and less quieter than Topre with rings.
  3. Cherry MX Clear, may or may not be enough silent for an office, only downstroke can be dampened right now (see below).
  4. Cherry MX Brown which has the slightest tactility, may or may not be enough silent for an office, only downstroke can be dampened right now (see below).
I am waiting for GMK QMX-Clip sound dampening brackets to be available, just to be able to take off the dust from all my Cherry boards and get a decent modern PCB mounted keyboard so I can play with all those switches again. I can not talk about this dampening system as I have not tried it but I have the impression it will revive the Cherry game for me if I ever get these. This dampening system is supposed to dampen not only key press but also the upstroke.

Amongst them the Cherry ones are the ones I dislike the most, not in a bad sense as I prefer those much better than any rubber dome.

In this list Matias switches have the most sharp and crisp tactile feel, while Topre tactility is soft and kind to the fingers, not as sharp but also more stable with less wooble. Cherry MX tactility is not sharp compared to buckling spring or Alps (Matias).

With this said, have you tried a Model M? It sits in the opposite side you are asking for, but if you really enjoy a Model M2, you will love a Model M. If you are not aware of how one feels and don't want to suffer by not being able to use one, don't try it, ever :roll: . I guess Murium words are somewhat in line with this.
Model M: Tried and liked it very much, loud as hell, also a good personal defense weapon in case of Zombie. The reason why I am here. Years later I came to know that even the M has a someone to bow too, the F. But with no modern features I am out.
Thumper wrote: All ISO Keyboards are the same, the difference in letters (äöü) makes the operating system.

You might want to check those boards, even tho, they are pretty pricy and need an assembly by yourself.

75% - crunched TKL https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78549.0
TKL https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70864.0

Both boards were sold in a Groupbuy which is over, but you might find some board secondhand.

If you are fine with a metal top plate and acrylic case below it, you can check http://www.winkeyless.kr . I'm currently typing on a b.87 (older version without metal top plate) and its super sleek. Depending on where you are in Germany we can meet and you can inspect it :)
A keyboard in my opinion consists of everything, including the keycaps - and these are not the same. UK ISO is far more easy to get than ISO DE.
I don't like the style of winkeyless, but your post showed me the beauty of korean customs, thanks for the hint.
The customs in those groupbuys look perfect, but I need traditional layout: I often HAVE to work on someone else's desk. Desksharing, consulting on premise and the baddest rubberdomes in ISO-DE you can imagine goes hand in hand. And no, I cannot use two different layouts. The tool has to be as simple as possible.
zuglufttier wrote: I suggest switching to ANSI US, then map Caps Lock + a to ä and so on. While working in IT, you'll come to like the better placement of /, \, brackets and all other special symbols which were not easy to type before.
See above ;)
idollar wrote: So you want to have an FSSK :-)

workshop-f7/f-ssk-t10744.html
That one in a modern outfit, together with a seperate numpad and modern features would be a wet dream.

Coclusion: Wait for more budget, dream of a korean custom. In the meantime: Try another approach. I bought a Filco with Blues and will mod it as hard as I can. Plan is to make it programmable, change the Switches to Whites and maybe even more. I'll open another topic for it.

User avatar
ShivaYash

09 May 2016, 13:11

I'm late to this one but does Topre does a DE ISO model? Their 87u is good for office work and inconspicuous. I have the ANSI and love it, but since getting into IBM, it doesn't get much use and lives in its box. But its nice to have and use once in a while.

User avatar
seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

09 May 2016, 13:17

ShivaYash wrote: I'm late to this one but does Topre does a DE ISO model? Their 87u is good for office work and inconspicuous. I have the ANSI and love it, but since getting into IBM, it doesn't get much use and lives in its box. But its nice to have and use once in a while.
Sure:
Realforce ISO – 88U
Functionally similar to the Realforce 86U. The 88U does not have an embedded numpad or LED indicators, but it does have the 35 gram and 45 gram weighting of modern 87U keyboards, unlike the 86U. The 88U is unique in that it is probably the Realforce that has been localised for more countries than any other Realforce keyboard. Versions exist in UK, German, French and Swedish/Finnish layout. The popular 87U by comparison only exists in US or Korean languages.
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_deta ... RODUCT=864

Shihatsu

09 May 2016, 13:39

Well, I never understood the Topre Hype. I tried a Realforce once and hated it.

User avatar
E3E

09 May 2016, 13:40

It is far too early for me to be browsing Deskthority right now. I just read the title of this thread as "the perfect medieval keyboard" and immediately clicked it. :?

User avatar
zuglufttier

09 May 2016, 14:02

The interesting question is: What is your perfect medieval keyboard then? You did click it, didn't you?

User avatar
GriffDeLaGriff

18 Sep 2016, 10:48

zuglufttier wrote: The interesting question is: What is your perfect medieval keyboard then? You did click it, didn't you?
I prefer the right one here:

Image

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