Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions

[Hypersphere]

Body of board -- have glass fiber and/or carbon fiber been considered?

[XMIT]

Body of board -- have glass fiber and/or carbon fiber been considered?

This would be easy enough with a mold, but no, haven't looked into this yet.

[zslane]

At this point I expect that the initial group buy will be with 87 key ABS boards in ANSI and ISO, and that we'll use this as a stepping stone for further work.

Sigh.

I hope this vendor has substantially lower standards for sales than Cooler Master, or else this will go the way of the NovaTouch and die in the marketplace before they ever make a version I am willing to buy and use.

[Chyros]

But, they are double shot, and PBT, and inexpensive.

Are they actually? Because the ones from my Lingbao, which look so identical they're probably from the same manufacturer, are ABS iirc.

[XMIT]

But, they are double shot, and PBT, and inexpensive.

Are they actually? Because the ones from my Lingbao, which look so identical they're probably from the same manufacturer, are ABS iirc.

They feel like PBT, and the manufacturer said they were, but I haven't done the acetone test. I'll update this post once I do run the test.

EDIT: Definitely not ABS. The key caps are completely resistant to acetone. This begs the questions: if these PBT caps are so cheap, why don't we see them in more keyboards? I think it's because, even if PBT is cheap, ABS is cheaper. I'll insist on PBT for the group buy but they do offer ABS as an option for people who like key caps that get shiny over time (?!).

[XMIT]

I hope this vendor has substantially lower standards for sales than Cooler Master, or else this will go the way of the NovaTouch and die in the marketplace before they ever make a version I am willing to buy and use.

This is a fabrication house, a small outfit. To put things in perspective a 50pcs order is big and a 500pcs order for them is very big. They can handle that many units but they don't crank them out the way say Costar does. By comparison they are more of a startup.

Cooler Master has some fabrication facilities and some outsourcing, their minimum quantities are higher. I'm willing to bet there are about 10k Novatouch units out there.

They really do appreciate the feedback we're giving them. It's a symbiotic relationship: our feedback improves their product, their improved product will see more sales.

The real key is incorporating this design and these sensors into other keyboards. No promises but we're hoping to move in this direction.

[SL89]

I'm not so familiar with hall effect, but is the spring the thing that dictates the feel of the keys? What standard 'weights' are in these boards so far?

[XMIT]

I'm not so familiar with hall effect, but is the spring the thing that dictates the feel of the keys? What standard 'weights' are in these boards so far?

Yep. In this implementation it's just a magnet moving up and down over the PCB. These have a slider and a spring so they are linear switches.

50g, 70g, and 85g springs are offered, and they'll do any weight we want for a slight upcharge. I haven't tested yet to see exactly where actuation is in terms of distance and force with my samples but both of these are up for modification. I'd like a 2.00mm actuation point assuming 4.00mm of travel.

[Chyros]

But, they are double shot, and PBT, and inexpensive.

Are they actually? Because the ones from my Lingbao, which look so identical they're probably from the same manufacturer, are ABS iirc.

They feel like PBT, and the manufacturer said they were, but I haven't done the acetone test. I'll update this post once I do run the test.

EDIT: Definitely not ABS. The key caps are completely resistant to acetone. This begs the questions: if these PBT caps are so cheap, why don't we see them in more keyboards? I think it's because, even if PBT is cheap, ABS is cheaper. I'll insist on PBT for the group buy but they do offer ABS as an option for people who like key caps that get shiny over time (?!).

ABS is easier to mold than PBT is. I'm sure material costs are not the issue, it's the tooling.

[XMIT]

ABS is easier to mold than PBT is. I'm sure material costs are not the issue, it's the tooling.

That may be part of the reason for the unpopular legends: stencil legends (no completely isolated areas, like the inside of the letter 'o') are likely easier to cast.

[Chyros]

[quote="Chyros";p=328239ABS is easier to mold than PBT is. I'm sure material costs are not the issue, it's the tooling.

That may be part of the reason for the unpopular legends: stencil legends (no completely isolated areas, like the inside of the letter 'o') are likely easier to cast.

Oh yes, good point. They are definitely part of the problem, it looks absolutely awful. Tbh at this point the only major thing I've seen so far that sets me off is the keycaps. I'm not a huge keycap person generally, but because I don't touch-type, I have to look at my keycaps a lot more than most people, so if they're especially ugly, it shows more for me. I can type blindly to some degree, but I do look at the keyboard once in a while, often to re-calibrate my hands (they float above the keys rather than sitting on the home rown).

[zslane]

I dislike stock keycaps too. That's why custom keycap group buys are my salvation.

[Chyros]

I dislike stock keycaps too. That's why custom keycap group buys are my salvation.

Yes, but those are extremely expensive, and tbh, I prefer to review keyboards with their original caps on.

[zslane]

Custom keyboards with high-end switches are expensive too, but that's only half a keyboard as far as I'm concerned. High-end keycaps are the other half. Spending substantial treasure on one but not the other makes no sense to me.

It's like the blokes who spend thousands of quid (if you'll permit me to use your native lingo) on a Custom Shop Les Paul guitar and then buy the cheapest solid state amp they can find, as if spending an equal amount of money on a beautiful sounding Marshall stack is somehow an exercise in wasteful spending.

But I admit to my bias: I mostly see keyboards as merely vessels for beautiful spherical keycaps. All the other details are a distant secondary concern. I'm excited about the prospect of these Hall Effect switches, but at the end of the day, they aren't worth buying/typing on if the keycaps aren't replaced with something equally sublime.

[fohat]

I dislike stock keycaps too.

I prefer to review keyboards with their original caps on.

Just use original IBM iron and all problems are solved. You can even dye them if you want a different color, without changing anything else.

That said, there are certain pieces such as the Tai Ho "Dolch" sets that are particularly nice. But many keyboards can be improved with superior caps. Although I strongly prefer PBT for feel, I understand that doubleshot ABS yields the clearest and crispest legend option without exception. That "greasy" shine, though, ugh.

Having the MX-style replacements available for these keyboards is monumental, without a doubt, and I hope all that bullshit like "row 3 profile" will not short-circuit their usefulness.

[Spaceman1200]

Definitely interested in one of these when they go live just not sure on what form factor i'll get lol

[Techno Trousers]

Defiantly interested in one of these

I'm interested too; I don't care what anyone says!!

[bazh]

Wow, this is awesome. Do you know if they would make the switch available separately when things are ready? Look interesting definitely in for a board

[Elrick]

thanks for the hard work XMIT.

honestly the whole "waterproof" thing seems a bit silly to me, not sure why I would need to scuba dive with my keyboard.

It's not because most of the younger generation shall be viewing pron on their PCs and guess what, the overwhelming majority will be male hence the liquid-issue becomes a reality.

That is why there is a high return rate from these pubescents, when they ruin their keyboards at night .

Maybe more keyboard manufacturers should make liquid resisting keyboards, due to these penis-volcanos.

[Chyros]

Waterproof keyboards can be cleaned very easily compared to non-waterproof ones.

[Techno Trousers]

Yep, it would be nice not to have to worry about spills ruining your $100+ keyboard. Especially for those with young children and/or pets in the house.

[matt3o]

It's not because most of the younger generation shall be viewing pron on their PCs and guess what, the overwhelming majority will be male hence the liquid-issue becomes a reality.

That is why there is a high return rate from these pubescents, when they ruin their keyboards at night .

Maybe more keyboard manufacturers should make liquid resisting keyboards, due to these penis-volcanos.

you are kidding right? tell me that you are kidding

[Wodan]

Oh wow the Chinese have finally built a keyboard you can glaze like a donut. That must also be the idea behind all these waterproof smartphones...

[shreebles]

Definitely first world problems... Not sure for how many kids this "liquid-issue becomes a reality".

Kids, pets, spills, I can understand. I'm glad I don't have either at the moment and can use every board worry-free on my desk

[fohat]

these penis-volcanos.

you are kidding right? tell me that you are kidding

Never happens except in the imagination.

[XMIT]

I'm still in discussions with the manufacturer about various options.

One constraint: it looks like, at the moment, the ABS keyboard bodies are (a) only available in the 87-key form factor, and (b) only compatible with mini USB for detachable cables.

So, if I offer the 104-key or 61-key options, only the ABS and the acrylic body types will be available for now. Using glue we might be able to bond the two top layers together so that the screws are hidden.

A couple of reviewers received the bamboo and acrylic body types - any thoughts on these specific constructions in addition to what was mentioned above?

The bamboo boards now ship with a tung oil treatment. This increases waterproofing but can also impose a somewhat unpleasant aroma that not everyone likes.

I'm thinking that I may simply offer the acrylic body type for now. This has the advantage of being easily laser cut for customization. Mine has my name etched in the back! Photos to follow...

[matt3o]

bamboo is fine but don't use oil, simply use wood varnish.

[XMIT]

I was quoted an upcharge for varnish. I'll see if I can get an evaluation copy to test out.

The bamboo board that I received back in July is untreated and, honestly, it's fine. Maybe I'll just offer untreated boards. It's a little rough - as in, should be sanded for a smooth finish - but I've had no problems with it.

[zslane]

I'd like to nudge consideration towards 108-key, rather than 104-key, for a full-sized board. Better, I think, to have four keys you don't need and can ignore, than to be short four keys you could really use.

And a conventional ABS case (with both top and bottom parts) would be preferred by me. Keyboards made out of unusual materials, or with unconventional structures ("floating" or topless boards, for instance) tend to look dated after a while, whereas something as straightforward as a Filco MJ-2 case is essentially timeless in its simplicity.

[XMIT]

The 108-key boards require a pretty substantial minimum order - namely, 500. It would require a new PCB. I don't see it happening this round, sorry. The same with ABS: to get a 104- or 108-key ABS case will take additional development effort. I understand your preferences but these are the realities of manufacturing.

If these boards end up being really popular, or I can find an partner that will carry inventory, or somehow change the MOQ requirements I'll look into this.

I may look into a "frosted" acrylic. It would have a matte surface finish and look somewhat more like the ABS cases.