Genius idea of the day

User avatar
Hypersphere

01 Feb 2019, 20:16

This is not new, as the switches are already available, but build a keyboard with NKK LCD switches -- electronically relegendable!

NKKswitch.jpg
NKKswitch.jpg (224.47 KiB) Viewed 560 times
https://www.powell.com/item/NKK-Switche ... gLSLPD_BwE

15.5 x 11.6 mm viewing area; 64 x 48 RGB pixels.

Now only $60.65 per switch!
Last edited by Hypersphere on 01 Feb 2019, 20:20, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
TheInverseKey

01 Feb 2019, 20:20

Hypersphere wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 20:16
This is not new, as the switches are already available, but build a keyboard with NKK LCD switches -- electronicallly relegendable!


NKKswitch.jpg
https://www.powell.com/item/NKK-Switche ... gLSLPD_BwE

15.5 x 11.6 mm viewing area; 64 x 48 RGB pixels.

Now only $60.65 per switch!
They better be very bloody smooth for that price.

User avatar
Laser
emacs -nw

01 Feb 2019, 20:23

A perfect switch for your next Morse code-enabled keyboard :lol:

.............................................................................
.............................................................................
.............................................................................
.............................................................................
(trying to hide the spoiler text from the spy preview)
.............................................................................
.............................................................................
.............................................................................
.............................................................................
Spoiler:
i.e. one key keyboard

User avatar
Hypersphere

01 Feb 2019, 20:31

Make a keyboard with volume and tone controls -- not media controls for your speakers, but controls for the acoustics of the keyboard itself. The case design might be inspired by the violin and the violin's sound post. The controls could actuate servomechanisms to exert variable forces on the top and bottom case components to change the amplitude, pitch, and timbre of the keyboard sounds.

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purdobol

01 Feb 2019, 22:05

Laser wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 20:23
A perfect switch for your next Morse code-enabled keyboard :lol:
-. . . -.. ... - --- -... . .- -. .- .-.. --- --. ... .-- .. - -.-. .... - .... --- ..- --. .... .. -. --- .-. -.. . .-. - --- -.-. .-. . .- - . -.. .- ... .... . ... .-.-.- --- .-. - .-- --- -.. .. --. .. - .- .-.. -.- . -.-- ... .-.-.-
--... ...--
Spoiler:
Needs to be analog switch though in order to create dashes. Or two digital keys.
73

User avatar
Laser
emacs -nw

01 Feb 2019, 22:09

Well, you can keep it pressed longer for a dash, and shorter for a dot :)

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purdobol

01 Feb 2019, 22:10

In theory.
You cant if keyboard sends release codes :P

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Laser
emacs -nw

01 Feb 2019, 22:16

It's you who makes the keyboard ;)

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purdobol

01 Feb 2019, 22:33

Lets make a deal. You create a firmware with built in decoder sufficient enough to translate morse code without perfect timing (no operator I know can keep constant perfect spacing between dots,dashes and words). And I make a video using such device in practice.

Jokes aside. The issue is more complicated. For example in morse there's no capital letters not to mention modifiers and many characters. So it would be useless for normal typing purposes.

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Hypersphere

01 Feb 2019, 22:59

purdobol wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 22:33
Lets make a deal. You create a firmware with built in decoder sufficient enough to translate morse code without perfect timing (no operator I know can keep constant perfect spacing between dots,dashes and words). And I make a video using such device in practice.

Jokes aside. The issue is more complicated. For example in morse there's no capital letters not to mention modifiers and many characters. So it would be useless for normal typing purposes.
Perfect for the younger generations. The way many people write these days, they think there is no need for capital letters, complete sentences, punctuation, and other niceties of classical language use.

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Muirium
µ

01 Feb 2019, 23:20

Bunk. I hear they’re very much into the understated subtleties of the eggplant, for just a start.

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Laser
emacs -nw

02 Feb 2019, 02:52

purdobol wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 22:33
Lets make a deal. You create a firmware with built in decoder sufficient enough to translate morse code without perfect timing (no operator I know can keep constant perfect spacing between dots,dashes and words). And I make a video using such device in practice.

Jokes aside. The issue is more complicated. For example in morse there's no capital letters not to mention modifiers and many characters. So it would be useless for normal typing purposes.

Well of course I was joking, let's not forget where we started! Of course Morse typing would be hugely impractical, how the heck would I hit backspace for example? I'd have to invent extended Morse (I bet it exists somewhere though, plenty of self-hurting people out there). I don't pretend to know how to write the perfect firmware for it, solving all its problems, and I wouldn't ever bother to waste my time doing it :P But, since people adapt, and some learn to love even their s***ty rubberdome keyboards, maybe an imperfect firmware for a Morse keyboard would do just as well :)

mcmaxmcmc

02 Feb 2019, 09:08

depletedvespene wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 11:51
mcmaxmcmc wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 10:40
Keycaps with interchangeable stems... why is this not a thing yet?
Getting them hand-aligned with the required submillimetrical position (so as they wouldn't look "crooked") would be a pain in the ass for most people (and downright impossible for gits with thick, clumsy fingers, like myself).
Perhaps a multipart cap like the Model M, but multiple types of stems are available would be a better way to word it. It would be pretty expensive and pretty precise, but certainly it's doable.

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purdobol

02 Feb 2019, 09:29

Laser wrote:
02 Feb 2019, 02:52
Well of course I was joking, let's not forget where we started! Of course Morse typing would be hugely impractical, how the heck would I hit backspace for example?
I know it was a joke. Just this topic is fascinating to me, because communication using morse is actually pretty amazing stuff.
All is forgiven though. You have "emacs -nw" under avatar. You're disciple of the Church. May good saint IGNUcius bless you. :lol:

User avatar
Laser
emacs -nw

02 Feb 2019, 10:31

purdobol wrote:
02 Feb 2019, 09:29

I know it was a joke. Just this topic is fascinating to me, because communication using morse is actually pretty amazing stuff.
All is forgiven though. You have "emacs -nw" under avatar. You're disciple of the Church. May good saint IGNUcius bless you. :lol:
Well, I use evil-mode, so I'm not sure if blessings apply :mrgreen:

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depletedvespene

02 Feb 2019, 14:14

purdobol wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 22:33
Jokes aside. The issue is more complicated. For example in morse there's no capital letters not to mention modifiers and many characters. So it would be useless for normal typing purposes.
Unimorse + UMTF-8 to the rescue!

A string like "Aquí" would be rendered as:

Code: Select all

.-.....- .---...- .---.-.- --....-- -.-.--.-
Comfortable, amirite? :mrgreen:

User avatar
Laser
emacs -nw

02 Feb 2019, 14:21

Cool! :D

Also, I take it back the Morse typing would be slow - if one touch-types, he/she can type 10 times faster, writing 10 slow different phrases at once (one per finger). If all of the inner voices agree ...

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purdobol

02 Feb 2019, 15:14

Average: 15 - 20 WPM
Normal: 20 - 25 WPM
Advanced: 25 - 35 WPM
Grand Master: 35 and up

Of course there are differences between straight key and the paddle. But in general sounds about right. For comparison average typist speed is 41 WPM and english language world record is 216 WPM. So quite a difference...

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Muirium
µ

02 Feb 2019, 16:07

[Un]Genius Idea of the day…

What's the WPM record for chording keyboards, I wonder? They're a bitch to learn, too, but at least have the potential to be ludicrously fast.

User avatar
Laser
emacs -nw

02 Feb 2019, 18:13

Muirium wrote:
02 Feb 2019, 16:07
[Un]Genius Idea of the day…

What's the WPM record for chording keyboards, I wonder? They're a bitch to learn, too, but at least have the potential to be ludicrously fast.
I understand it can be as low as 25-35 WPM, but if you add stenography techniques (mapping combos to words for example) you can go higher than 200 WPM. Of course, that could be used with normal keyboards too. Some discussion thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11997761

Also: http://www.openstenoproject.org/

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yuchipashe

08 Feb 2019, 08:24

A full keyboard using the first cherry switch

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Laser
emacs -nw

08 Feb 2019, 10:56

Cool :D

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Muirium
µ

14 Feb 2019, 23:17

So, I've been peeking inside a few of my unconverted keyboards, and remembered this:
Muirium wrote:
03 Feb 2019, 20:45
Laser wrote:
03 Feb 2019, 18:04
Another alternative (says it has 6 extra pins compared to the Pro Micro): https://candykeys.com/product/elite-c
USB C, cool. They say the USB pins are broken out (copied to their own pins on the board) which is a nice touch for hooking up your own socket elsewhere.
Image
If I was wiring a new board I’d give this a try.
According to Candykeys, and this Elite-C announcement post on Reddit, the smart wee bugger has its "USB pins broken out" but does it?
Image
There's really not many pins on there! I see GND and VCC, and a handy RESET, but no sign of USB's data lines, which is disappointing. (Or maybe those two lonely unmarked pins in the midsection are USB data? Would help to know which is which!) See, what I really want is something more like the Teensy++ as these old controllers are often its size, as Snacks is exploiting here in a Magnavox:

Image

And! What I really, really want is something that size *with its USB pins broken out* so I can route the port some place else. A big problem I have with many boards, and the Marquardt Mini in particular is simply lack of space for bulky USB sockets and their awful, bulky headed cables. Where would it fit with this plate?

Image

There's just no room for any USB cable to plug into the Teensy++ sized controller. But that controller is exactly the same size as a Teensy 2++ which is what makes it so tempting!

I was also inside my Filco MJ2 earlier, trying to find a good spot for a Teensy 2 inside for running TMK's PS/2 converter. Again, it was the bloody USB cable that was stopping me. The plastic around the jacks are huge! So dumb. There's got to be a better way to inline stuff like this without cramming external cables inside keyboard interiors.

(And yes, I know about Bathroom Epiphany's replacement Costar controllers but I'm talking about more general purpose kit here. The first thing I'd change about this Filco is putting in a USB port where the fixed cable goes. And yes, I know those are a thing too, but I mean a port flush with the case. Besides, it's my vintage boards I'd really like to swap out to USB.)

User avatar
Laser
emacs -nw

15 Feb 2019, 07:54

About the Elite-C USB breakout pins - there are two smaller holes/pads underneath, they could be the D+/D- lines?

Anakey

15 Feb 2019, 14:01

it is a shame that the teensy ++ could not have been made with through hole usb port then it would just have been a simple case of removing the port to expose the holes needed however i guess its more expensive to use through hole stuff. You could get the usb mini ends off somewhere like RS components or mouser and make your own cable that way you cut out the vast majority of the plastic casing, the other option is to remove the usb port from the teensy and then solder onto the surface mount pads directly though it would be extremely fiddly due to the narrow traces and wire that would be needed to avoid a short. I used that method when i did my first hand wired build early last year. https://i.imgur.com/Qk2ZabC.jpg

andrewjoy

15 Feb 2019, 14:16

You can get USB break outs that have the male connector on them

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Micro-USB-Pl ... rk:27:pf:0

But they are quite bulky.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

15 Feb 2019, 15:03

Bulk really is the problem. So often, these vintage boards have an Intel chip with the same footprint as a Teensy 2++ but bugger all room around it. If I could just hook wires straight to it and fit my own socket on the outer case, I’d be all set!

Anyone up for designing a keyboard hacking community PCB for just this purpose?

Expert points for a dual mode USB and Bluetooth controller with battery charging circuit. These cases often have space somewhere, but not where you want. Running wires opens all possibilities.

User avatar
snacksthecat
✶✶✶✶

15 Feb 2019, 15:22

Muirium wrote:
15 Feb 2019, 15:03
Bulk really is the problem. So often, these vintage boards have an Intel chip with the same footprint as a Teensy 2++ but bugger all room around it. If I could just hook wires straight to it and fit my own socket on the outer case, I’d be all set!

Anyone up for designing a keyboard hacking community PCB for just this purpose?
I think engicoder was working on something like this. He mentioned to me:
I have been working on a project to create a replacement board for the Intel MCS-48 series of microcontrollers used in most vintage keyboards (i.e 8048, 8748, 8049, 8032, etc) You seem to do a lot of converting. My goal was create a drop in replacement that used the at90usb646/1286. I have also created a small board that stacks on top to generate 12V and drive an optional solenoid.
No clue about the usb breakout / bulk. Maybe he could chime into the discussion.

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