IBM Model-F-like keyboard designs

[Chyros]

Oh dear! Is everything alright? Oo

[RickCHodgin]

Oh dear! Is everything alright? Oo

Yes. Thank you.

I hope to return to the project quickly. Work will continue, though scaled back, on its software and hardware design, but no creation of production equipment for manufacturing will occur until some time later.

Again I apologize.

[gianni]

Sorry for that. I hope that you'll be able to solve those problems and that you'll be back with simpler objectives

[RickCHodgin]

Sorry for that. I hope that you'll be able to solve those problems and that you'll be back with simpler objectives

Objectives remain the same. I am intending to craft great keyboards. And later other products.

[Techno Trousers]

Take care, Rick. We're well accustomed to delays around here.

[RickCHodgin]

For the past several weeks I have been considering returning to this project. I have two other projects I am interested in working on as well, but they are entirely software design ... and I do that for a living and it's boring.

I need something to do that's physical, and I'm considering returning to this project after a many month break.

[green-squid]

For the past several weeks I have been considering returning to this project. I have two other projects I am interested in working on as well, but they are entirely software design ... and I do that for a living and it's boring.

I need something to do that's physical, and I'm considering returning to this project after a many month break.

With the sky-high prices of IBM keyboards on eBay and Ellipse likely trashing his molds after he's done with his F runs (hopefully I changed his mind on that ), we need projects like this more than ever! Rock on!

[Chyros]

Yeah, I was thinking that as well, considering how much Ellipse managed to rake in, and how much Fs are going for now, I think this'd be worth pursuing ^^ .

[Techno Trousers]

We're rooting for you!

[j0d1]

What are the two other software projects? Are they keyboard-related?

[RickCHodgin]

What are the two other software projects? Are they keyboard-related?

A CPU design for a protected-mode only 80386 multi-core offshoot, and the software to author the CPU design in a new way, one like the 3D software app called Blender, and specifically the way its node editor works.

[Scarpia]

I’d be interested in your CPU design / Blender node designer project (for reasons unrelated to CPU design and related to neural network design instead) - will you be posting about that somewhere?

[RickCHodgin]

I’d be interested in your CPU design / Blender node designer project (for reasons unrelated to CPU design and related to neural network design instead) - will you be posting about that somewhere?

My CPU designs are here:
Arxoda is a 40-bit 80386 with support for an ARM ISA as well -- The current version is a Love Threading Oppie-3, which is more primitive:
http://www.libsf.org:8990/projects/LIB/ ... wse/arxoda

Here's an FPGA design:
Arlina -- http://www.libsf.org:8990/projects/LIB/ ... wse/arlina

And here's Arlita, another 80386 derived system with a low pin count:
http://www.libsf.org:8990/projects/LIB/ ... wse/arxita

The software is called Logician. It is not developed in that repository, just hints of it are there.

[wobbled]

Good to see this project actively being discussed again!

[green-squid]

My CPU designs are here:
Arxoda is a 40-bit 80386 with support for an ARM ISA as well -- The current version is a Love Threading Oppie-3, which is more primitive:
http://www.libsf.org:8990/projects/LIB/ ... wse/arxoda

And here's Arlita, another 80386 derived system with a low pin count:
http://www.libsf.org:8990/projects/LIB/ ... wse/arxita

If someone can figure out a way to put a display in this keyboard, we could run Doom! I mean, it's 386, so it checks out.

[RickCHodgin]

If someone can figure out a way to put a display in this keyboard, we could run Doom! I mean, it's 386, so it checks out.

The keyboard itself will not use an 80386-based CPU. It will use a small FPGA, and will have the ability to be completely configured inside and out (you can make the shift key be the backspace as the code issued from the keyboard, and not through a software layer). There will also be a software layer that allows local machine configuration and wrapping to other keys. You can also have "soft configurations" which allow you to context switch keyboard arrangements, key assignments, and assigned macros, based on the application which has foreground machine focus.

If you're in Blender, you see these keys working this way. If you're in a word processor it works this way (however you set it up). If you're in a programming language, then this way, etc.

I want to empower everybody to have a keyboard that meets every need they have, and be a single keyboard you can buy and use until you die, and it will continue on after that with your heirs. I want to make it so every component has replaceable parts and is able to be updated and repaired (etched out keys with paint so they can be filled back up as they wear down over time, for example).

[green-squid]

You are a legend! I'm keeping an eye on this!

[RickCHodgin]

You are a legend! I'm keeping an eye on this!

My son and I are working on the keyboard portion of it right now. I've decided for my first product I'm going to create a capacitive board that will sample keys and communicate over a USB or PS/2 connector. It will allow existing Model-F keyboards to have their existing board replaced, and use this new one, which will tie into my enhanced keyboard driver which will allow existing Model-F's to work as my UKM keyboard will once the physical boards are completed.

In this way, I'll start with the software and controller board end of it, and make existing Model-F's have new life.

[digital_matthew]

...I want to empower everybody to have a keyboard that meets every need they have, and be a single keyboard you can buy and use until you die, and it will continue on after that with your heirs. I want to make it so every component has replaceable parts and is able to be updated and repaired (etched out keys with paint so they can be filled back up as they wear down over time, for example).

That's awesome. I'd like to buy one of your keyboards one day.

[RickCHodgin]

That's awesome. I'd like to buy one of your keyboards one day.

Thank you for the encouragement. My son has me working on capacitive touch panels for our house right now. He wants to turn his room into a Star Trek touch panel-like interface I think.

[RickCHodgin]

If any of you are interested in working with capacitive switches in general (where you touch your finger to a metal plate), there's a good video here which gives you a primer. The Arduino product lines give you an excellent and easy way to create your own home projects and are a good place to start. There's a Capacitive Sense library you can download for the Arduino which makes reading the capacitive switch just a few lines of source code. Once you download it, add the ZIP to your tool library and you'll have it.

If any of you are interested I advise starting there. Arduinos vary in price, but are less than $50 for the biggest one, and they have a host of add-on features in the form of "hardware shields" that you buy and plug in, and with those you can create all kinds of things with. The Arduino itself plugs into a USB port on your Windows-based computer, and you do all the programming on your computer and upload it to the device. It has the ability to send text back to a display so you can send messages from the Arduino to your computer to monitor things. It's really a very easy to use and mature platform.

I'm not selling anything here, but only offering my assistance for free. If you are interested in trying them out and you get stuck, PM me and I'll see if I can't help you out.

You can use the Arduino to drive output pins which go through relays which do real things in your home. A simple toggle circuit (touch once on, touch again off) will let you turn on lights or outlets with a simple touch. By using low voltage driver pins, and remote relays on your application, you can have a single Arduino turn 30 or 40 things on and off, each controlled individually. And by using programming logic in the Arduino (it's basically like a C programming language) you can create many complex and exciting features which do multiple things, like turn on LEDs, make sounds, there's a shield you can buy which plays MP3 files from an SD card, etc.

It's an interesting hobby to begin exploring, and especially for capacitive touch sensors if interested in Model-F-style keyboards. Your mind begins to think of the "what if?" possibilities.

[RickCHodgin]

I've been working on this project and am making some final design decisions on the physical key forms themselves. In so doing I've been reviewing existing keyboards I have and looking at their various form factors.

For example, I have an IBM Model M that has key caps like these https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c ... 8a2e2b0c-c. You can see certain keys like backspace, ctrl, alt, shift, caps lock, ins, del, and the plus on the num keypad all have a standard key footprint at the top, but then a skirt which goes down to fill in their larger base.

I was looking at them today and I really like their appearance. I think they make the keyboard look quite nice, but I'm not sure how efficient they would be for keystrikes on long use. Typing a few keys on them and they seem odd, but I think I could get used to it quickly. But in general, they may provide an odd tactile experience and be undesirable for that reason coupled to the greater precision needed to strike the key more at its center rather than anywhere across the wider full key footprint.

Does anyone have any experience or advice here?

My other option is to go traditional http://www.wikiwand.com/en/IBM_PC_keyboard where all keys are uniform to their physical size and take up the rectangular area of their full footprint all the way to the top. I think these keys are less attractive, but they may be far more practical.

Thank you in advance.

[depletedvespene]

Does anyone have any experience or advice here?

There's a reason IBM abandoned most of the stepping in keycaps as early as in the Model F AT keyboard, and ended up keeping a bit of it only on the Caps Lock and ISO Enter keys. EMWV, of course, but generally speaking, a keycap that covers all of its area is better regarded than a stepped one that only presents half its area available for usage (1U stepping on a 2U key) or worse (as is the case on the hideous 3U numpad+ key in the F XT you link to).

[Techno Trousers]

Agree that the stepped caps can be aesthetically nice, but in use it's rather annoying to be forced to hit long keys only in one small spot. I would definitely recommend designs that fill the available space between keys and can be hit anywhere along their length (necessitating some sort of stabilizer for the long keys).

[RickCHodgin]

I appreciate the advice. I am still considering it, as I really like the stepping. Maybe if it was reduced, so the delta between key and step was marginal, and mostly for appearance sake.

[Muirium]

Sounds Wyse to me!


keyboards-f2/wyse-pce-int-l-840362-01-t19442.html

Stepped keys are a pretty nice look. Subtlety is the way to go, however. Ideally, stepping shouldn’t get in the way of either typing comfort (every stepped mod on the IBM XT!!) or switch placement (Caps Lock on IBM Model M and many other 80s keyboards). It’s more of a style thing than a necessity worthy of compromising other factors.

[Techno Trousers]

My favorite to look at were NMB's implementation of stepped caps. Pics are not mine; they're from a completed eBay auction.

Rick, the tiny backspace and big-ass enter key are totally UNcool, so don't get any ideas.

[//gainsborough]

My favorite to look at were NMB's implementation of stepped caps.

Do the outer steps serve any functional purpose or is it just for looks?

[zslane]

Well, given the functional purpose behind stepping, I don't see how the outer stepping on the Shift and Return keys could be anything but aesthetic in nature there.

[RickCHodgin]

My favorite to look at were NMB's implementation of stepped caps. Pics are not mine; they're from a completed eBay auction.

Rick, the tiny backspace and big-ass enter key are totally UNcool, so don't get any ideas.

I have my keyboard layout .

I like the NMB key form/design. I think the Ctrl, Alt, and other keys on that row, should all be full size, with possibly one-side mini steps. I like the little skirts / step areas.