Newbie asking about Matias Quiet Clicks vs Matias Clicks.

[disastermouse]

Hey everyone!

This hobby looks as all-consuming as my headphone hobby, but here I am. A little background:

I had a motorcycle accident and have a plate and screw in my right (dominant) wrist. I have reduced flexibility due to the injury. I've been using a Kinesis Advantage Dvorak for more than a year and although I've adjusted and I don't fatigue, I HATE the Cherry MX Browns that are the only switches available for the model. I've been a long-time Dvorak user since before the injury.

I've been vacillating between the Ergodox EZ and the Keyboardio for a couple of weeks. My girlfriend can't stand the clicky sound of Razor Greens or Cherry MX Blues. I'm going mostly toward the Keyboardio because it can be put into negative tilt rather easily. I have concerns about the shift key being twelve-thousand miles away from the home-row, but otherwise, I like that tilting with the octo-pedastals tilts even the wrist-rests, which means that negative tilt will be easier no matter what. Almost everyone who uses the tenting sticks on the Ergodox tilts the keyboard UP, not down, and hence I have reservations about the height of the wrist-rests that come with the board even if I put it into a negative tilt-tent.

I've never used an ALPS or Matias switch before. I need more tactility than what the Cherry Browns provide, but I don't necessarily need the clicks. I want a tactile bump that happens sooner and with more authority than the Cherry MX Browns.

The Keyboardio only comes with Matias Quiet 'Clicks' (no real click, I know) and the Matias Clicks. How much better are the Matias switches compared to the Cherry MX Browns?

If I went with Ergodox EZ and was left to my own devices, I'd choose the Kailh Bronze/Thick Gold. Not necessarily because of the clicks (though they're cool), but because of the tactility the clicking mechanism provides. Nothing else on the Ergodox EZ switch menu appeals, because they're either less satisfying Cherry switches or switches that are described as 'lighter' browns or totally linear switches like the Kaihl Silver.

Any help in making the decision would be wildly appreciated, especially as I haven't ever experienced a Matias switch.

[Chyros]

Matias switches are one of the few out there on the market right now that are truly tactile. Matias don't retain the high-up actuation of Alps switches, if memory serves, but are still quite responsive.

Although I wouldn't call them heavy, they are slightly stiffer than ones you might have tried so far. Both switches are quite tactile, but the clicky switches noticeably moreso than the quiet ones. The quiet ones also have a quite different bottom-out feel due to the damping effect.

A slightly lighter, non-damp, non-clicky Alps switch you might like is orange Alps, although this will necessitate scrounging on the vintage market.

[Zobeid Zuma]

Although I wouldn't call them heavy, they are slightly stiffer than ones you might have tried so far. Both switches are quite tactile, but the clicky switches noticeably moreso than the quiet ones. The quiet ones also have a quite different bottom-out feel due to the damping effect.

I haven't tried them both, but I do have a recent production Mini Tactile Pro with the clicky switches. I find that my typing on it is very fast and confident. It's quite a solid little keyboard, and the key action feels good to me. The click is not all that loud to me, and it almost gets lost among the plastic clack of the keys bottoming out.

As an experiment I pulled one key cap (which really didn't want to come off!) and added a WASD blue O-ring. That seems to tame the plastic clack pretty well. I'm just waiting for a couple more packets of O-rings to show up, then I'll do the whole board and see what is the result. (Incidentally, the few O-rings that I have on hand were left over from doing the CyberpowerPC keyboard with Outemu blue switches, which have a loud, sharp click and a dainty, musical ping. I like it a lot, IMHO.)

[disastermouse]

I won't be able to easily change out the switches. I'm not advanced enough in the hobby to do the soldering and whatnot. Heck, with the Keyboardio, they'll have to help me remap it to Dvorak if their GUI isn't done yet.

So my options are:

Keyboardio Matias Quiet Click vs Keyboardio Matias Click.

Ergodox EZ with an option ranging from Cherry MX Blue, Brown, Clear, White, Red, Silent Red, or Kailh Brown, Kailh Speedswitches in Gold, Thick Gold (Bronze), Silver, or Copper.

My girlfriend hates the clicks, but she seemed to hate the Matias Click less than the Cherry Blue. She LOATHES the Kailh Bronze/Thick Gold. I'd be happy with the Matias Quiet Clicks if they're more tactile than Cherry MX Brown and I like the fact that they sound stiffer. My browns mostly feel like mush on the Kinesis Advantage that I currently run.

The Ergodox layout is easier to change and the thumb panel closely resembles the Kinesis Advantage that I already use, but the negative tilt may be an issue and any of the quiet switches that are available don't appeal.

The downside of the Keyboardio is that it only comes with Matias Quiet Click and Matias Clicky.

[Zobeid Zuma]

The downside of the Keyboardio is that it only comes with Matias Quiet Click and Matias Clicky.

For me the real downside is having to re-learn touch typing.

I've been looking at the Keyboardio for a while now, and they do make a very enticing pitch. It looks like an attractive, fantastically designed and built product. Intellectually, the idea of a truly optimized keyboard without the baggage of past legacy is very appealing to me.

However. . . I'm already typing over 90 WPM average (as per play.typeracer.com), and I don't have any RSI or other discomfort, and so it's not really clear to me what practical benefit I would gain from the switch. Then, even if I did spend time learning to use the Keyboardio well, it would only make things more awkward whenever I have to type on any other system -- such as my Macbook Air, for example.

If I spent hours per day at my computer desk hammering away on the keys (which I know some folks do), then it would make a lot more sense. I don't work like that, though.

[disastermouse]

The downside of the Keyboardio is that it only comes with Matias Quiet Click and Matias Clicky.

For me the real downside is having to re-learn touch typing.

I've been looking at the Keyboardio for a while now, and they do make a very enticing pitch. It looks like an attractive, fantastically designed and built product. Intellectually, the idea of a truly optimized keyboard without the baggage of past legacy is very appealing to me.

However. . . I'm already typing over 90 WPM average (as per play.typeracer.com), and I don't have any RSI or other discomfort, and so it's not really clear to me what practical benefit I would gain from the switch. Then, even if I did spend time learning to use the Keyboardio well, it would only make things more awkward whenever I have to type on any other system -- such as my Macbook Air, for example.

If I spent hours per day at my computer desk hammering away on the keys (which I know some folks do), then it would make a lot more sense. I don't work like that, though.

The learning curve only goes one way. I've learned both Dvorak and ortholinear, cupped, closer keys with the Kinesis Advantage. Like most people, I still need to type on a traditional keyboard in QWERTY for work. Although my speed probably hasn't increased on QWERTY, it hasn't slowed either. My brain just makes the switch and it's no problem whatsoever. To clarify, on a Kinesis Advantage, the space is only on one side, backspace is only on one side, enter is right thumb left of space. I go back to QWERTY and it's like I've always typed on QWERTY (except my wrist hurts from the injury).

So yeah, you'll have a frustrating week or two trying to get used to the new layout, but you won't lose your proficiency with a standard QWERTY board. I've never been as fast as you, but I was a good 60 wpm typist before I switched. I haven't checked my speed on the Kinesis, because when I write, I'm stopping a lot to think about what to type next, but Dvorak was about the same speed as QWERTY on a standard board...maybe a little faster just because the way the common vowels and consonants work with Dvorak.

[RyanArr]

The Matias Quiet Clicks are far more tactile than Cherry Browns. I'm typing on them right now, and have two AEKs next to me. In my opinion the only difference between the Quiet Click and Alps SKCM White/Cream Damped is the real Alps are a little heavier, the QCs definitely have the same nice high actuation point. I don't have any Matias Clicks to compare for you unfortunately.

For the split/negative tilt, you might also want to consider the Matias Ergo Pro (though I use mine in tenting mode).

[consolation]

My 2c.

I find the Matias clicky to be slightly more bassy than complicated clicks; as far as the volume goes, different keycaps make more difference than the different keys. Blue and Orange have a slightly crisper feeling click if you have good condition switches; my gf prefers Matias, I prefer orange (only have a keypad with good blue alps so it's hard to make a call on those, since oranges are tactile it's a bit of an oranges to alpses comparison,) I think it's really a matter of taste tbh.

Ergodox infinity lets you build with alps switches, the latest MD drop has just shipped so they will probably make another one soon, and since this one was a month late, there might be a few going up for sale. If you don't want to build one; I'd put up a WTB on r/mechmarket and the forums, for an ED with matias switches and see what shakes out...

[Darkshado]

Did you ever try Cherry Clears? IIRC Kinesis did sell the PCBs and "frames" to mod an Advantage without damaging its original switches.

They're more tactile than Browns, not quite as sharp as the Alps (and assuming Matias) though.

[disastermouse]

Did you ever try Cherry Clears? IIRC Kinesis did sell the PCBs and "frames" to mod an Advantage without damaging its original switches.

They're more tactile than Browns, not quite as sharp as the Alps (and assuming Matias) though.

I've never tried Cherry Clears, but I'm of the understanding that no Cherry or Gateron switches are truly tactile without the click.

[orihalcon]

Given the situation, I would recommend deciding on a keyboard first and look into having someone else replace the switches if they aren't to your liking. There are several members here who will do soldering/desoldering for a reasonable price if you ask, and your total cost will be much less than a Keyboardio board. Just my 2¢

[disastermouse]

Given the situation, I would recommend deciding on a keyboard first and look into having someone else replace the switches if they aren't to your liking. There are several members here who will do soldering/desoldering for a reasonable price if you ask, and your total cost will be much less than a Keyboardio board. Just my 2¢

The cost isn't an issue. I need something ergonomic, like my Kinesis Advantage, although the hand placement still isn't as wide as I'd like and I still hunch a little bit when I type. Standard keyboards are out of the question, long-term, due to the wrist injury. Weirdly, the only standard keyboard that doesn't give me trouble is the Apple scissor keyboard that comes with their iMacs and other desktops. That's still not ideal, but I think the low profile helps. As any fan of mechanical boards knows, though, the lack of tactile response is a problem if you appreciate the older keyboards of the 80s and early 90s.

Eventually, I might just order a plate and board set-up from Kinesis (they sell them) and learn how to build my own switches in. I'd love to eventually make my own innovations with keyboards and it'll be a fun project. As it is, I'm almost entirely consumed with my day job and my writing and I don't own a shop or any space where I could build much of anything. Once I had the confidence, I might build a scratch Ergodox with exotic switches or even buy an extra Keyboardio and change out the switches. Who knows?

I just needed to know if Matias Quiet Clicks are more satisfying than my Cherry MX Browns, and it seems as though they're both more tactile and that the tactile bump comes much higher in the keystroke than Cherry. I've heard Cherry MX Browns referred to as 'Dirty Red' and I can definitely see why someone would say that.

[Findecanor]

I've never tried Cherry Clears, but I'm of the understanding that no Cherry or Gateron switches are truly tactile without the click.

MX Clear is tactile, but it is a much different switch than Matias "Quiet Click". Where as the Alps/Matias' switches have a sharp tactile event and then you almost always press it to the bottom, the MX Clear has a bump and then the force increases steeply preventing you from reaching the bottom most of the time.
I like to think of it as a low-profile rubber dome keyboard sitting on a sponge, because the initial force bump is very much like a rubber dome but it is soft at the actuation point.
Still, the MX Clear is a scratchy and loud switch. I have mine modified.

Purple Zealio and Purple Outemo are two clones from other manufacturers that retain the feel but are a bit smoother - but they are unusual and I don't know if they are an option for any ready-made keyboard at all. I have only got them loose for DIY projects. (But the keyboarding world changes every week and maybe some keyboard somewhere has one of these as a ready-made option...)

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I went back to an MX Clear keyboard briefly the other day — a G80-3000LQCDE that's seen several yeas of daily use in the workplace. To me, the switches feel soft and smooth. Even the seldom-used keys felt surprisingly light and easy to press (this is coming from MX Red). Being PCB mount, they were also not terribly loud; the G80-3000 shell needs a bit of bracing and extra stand-offs though, which is the reason I ditched that keyboard (it's far too flimsy). The switches are good, but I wanted something more solidly-built (at the time, my Filco). Now I have a 60%, and the G80 is just too big, but it feels and sounds good.

I'd rate MX Clears over Matias — MX Clear is a really nice switch.

[disastermouse]

I went back to an MX Clear keyboard briefly the other day — a G80-3000LQCDE that's seen several yeas of daily use in the workplace. To me, the switches feel soft and smooth. Even the seldom-used keys felt surprisingly light and easy to press (this is coming from MX Red). Being PCB mount, they were also not terribly loud; the G80-3000 shell needs a bit of bracing and extra stand-offs though, which is the reason I ditched that keyboard (it's far too flimsy). The switches are good, but I wanted something more solidly-built (at the time, my Filco). Now I have a 60%, and the G80 is just too big, but it feels and sounds good.

I'd rate MX Clears over Matias — MX Clear is a really nice switch.

I could only get MX Clears if I went with Ergodox EZ. I'm half-tempted, but only because the thumb panel is similar to the Kinesis I already own. I still think I'm going with the keyboardio 01, even though I'll need help with Dvorak keys and remapping if their GUI remapper isn't finished by the time it comes in.

[disastermouse]

Arg...now I'm debating whether I should get the Ergodox EZ because it's closer to what I already know and the keyboardio is having some manufacturing problems.