Blue Alps Question???

Polecat · 25 Dec 2017, 04:16

In digging through my blue Alps boards looking for branded upper housings I found something even stranger, to me anyhow. These are in a very early Northgate 102, sticker date July 1988, and about a third of the switches I've checked so far (two rows) have only a single alpha character on the SE corner, no other markings. The rest have the usual xxy on the NE corner and single digit on NW and SW, mostly 10X but a few 8x. Help me, Daniel B.! (or anyone else...) Is this a known thing? I opened up one of the alpha-only ones and it had a tall gray switchplate inside, as expected.

rich1051414 · 25 Dec 2017, 05:07

It is generally expected that blues 'have no alps logo on top'. There are some that did, but when they do have a logo on top, you have to struggle to see it. There is nothing out of the ordinary here.

I believe they will have a logo on bottom though, but that requires desoldering the switch. It is obvious, however, that these are not clones.

Polecat · 25 Dec 2017, 05:41

rich1051414 wrote: ↑It is generally expected that blues 'have no alps logo on top'. There are some that did, but when they do have a logo on top, you have to struggle to see it. There is nothing out of the ordinary here.

I believe they will have a logo on bottom though, but that requires desoldering the switch. It is obvious, however, that these are not clones.

I've seen the faint logo on white SKCM, so I'm on board with that. What's strange here is the switches with no mold numbers on the upper right (NE). I suspect these are very early blues, but perhaps they're from a different factory or something? None of the others I've seen have this type of marking, or lack of.

I'll desolder one of each to check the bottoms. I've been soldering since I was nine or ten so I'm a lot more comfortable desoldering switches from a board than I am taking the switches apart.

Daniel Beardsmore · 25 Dec 2017, 12:43

Pass.

It's curious though that looks like someone took an LED top shell and filled in the LED hole, and that one circle is where it would be on an LED shell. However, the LED hole is at the front, not the back, and those are the wrong slits for an LED top shell of that age.

Polecat · 26 Dec 2017, 03:22

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: ↑Pass.

It's curious though that looks like someone took an LED top shell and filled in the LED hole, and that one circle is where it would be on an LED shell. However, the LED hole is at the front, not the back, and those are the wrong slits for an LED top shell of that age.

More info on these switches. I decided to pull all the caps to see what I could learn. I'd divide the upper case markings into four types.

1) What I'd consider "normal" SKCM markings--letter NW, number-letter NE, number SW, blank SE. 30 of these in total. NE number is "10" on all 30, NE letter ranges from A to O.

2) As above, but with both lower corners blank. 11 of these in total. NE number is "8" on all 11, NE letter ranges from C to P. NW letter is P on all 11.

3) Only a single letter SE corner, no other markings. 58 of these in total. SE letter ranges from A to K. A couple had the letter upside down (A and F).

4) Single letter NW, single letter NE, lower corners blank. Only 2 of these. NW letter B on both, NE letter K or N.

I desoldered and pulled one of each type. All had the normal Alps logo on the bottom.

Again, the label date on this keyboard is 07-18-1988. Mold date on the upper case is June 9, 1988. PC board date is 19880204 (top) and 19880427 (bottom).

Sorry, photos later, I'm not going shopping for camera batteries on Christmas day.

Polecat · 26 Dec 2017, 05:11

By the way, these aren't the ones with faint logos or worn off. No trace of Alps markings on the upper housings on even a single one. And no sign whatsoever of resoldering or disassembly, other than the four switches I removed and reinstalled today. Been in my storage room for twenty-plus years. 99.99 percent sure this one is exactly as it came originally.

rich1051414 · 26 Dec 2017, 13:16

Polecat wrote: ↑By the way, these aren't the ones with faint logos or worn off. No trace of Alps markings on the upper housings on even a single one. And no sign whatsoever of resoldering or disassembly, other than the four switches I removed and reinstalled today. Been in my storage room for twenty-plus years. 99.99 percent sure this one is exactly as it came originally.

Is there any documentation or timeline on this? It all seems so random, as if each factory decided to only change a portion of their injection molds at a time, and in a completely random order. It would be nice to accurately date alps switches depending on these molding differences.

Daniel Beardsmore · 26 Dec 2017, 23:11

Few if any people in the world beside me have ever even taken any notice of mould numbering on switches. As for Alps SKCL/SKCM, I've never tried to decypher the Alps numbering besides distinguish the circled and non-circled components.

Polecat · 27 Dec 2017, 06:41

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: ↑Few if any people in the world beside me have ever even taken any notice of mould numbering on switches. As for Alps SKCL/SKCM, I've never tried to decypher the Alps numbering besides distinguish the circled and non-circled components.

Got it, no real interest beyond identifying the switches as Alps SKCM. These sound and feel like normal blue SKCM, and I can't tell any difference between the four different marking types. Date-wise I probably have earlier ones (with normal markings) in other boards. But so far this is the earliest Northgate keyboard I've seen. Gold label, black plate, Sefco sticker, FK-555 (Focus?) FCC code, and inside a hand written label "Omnikey 102" on the EPROM.

Daniel Beardsmore · 27 Dec 2017, 13:08

There's no reason that you can't, but there is no wealth of existing data to draw from. In my case, I have only one old Alps keyboard, with what I'm assuming are bog standard blue Alps switches.

Polecat · 28 Dec 2017, 04:12

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: ↑There's no reason that you can't, but there is no wealth of existing data to draw from. In my case, I have only one old Alps keyboard, with what I'm assuming are bog standard blue Alps switches.

So this is just the long way of saying there are some variations in the SKCM mold numbering, and the single letter SE corner version is perhaps a new one for the permanent record.

Daniel Beardsmore · 28 Dec 2017, 12:40

No, I'm saying that if you feel that it warrants attention you're free to take it up as a research project, but that you'll have to start from scratch. I've not even been differentiating one-circle from two-circle switches. It may have some merit, as all too often you can't discover what colour switchplate is present in a switch in a photo.