Future of mechanical switches? which one is the best?

7amda

05 Feb 2018, 13:51

I've tried multiple switches from the cherrys to razer, steelseries and logitech. Although there's a keyboard that got my attention called Bloody B810R from a company based in Taiwan, they claim that its the fastest response switch available also known as the LK (light strike switch). Tesoro is another company that manufacture optical keyboards like bloody. Recently the well known BenQ made the CELERITAS II Keyboard for e-Sports which uses the optical flaretech switch (adomax).
moreover, The wooting one is a very interesting keyboard that uses optical switches in a way that makes it a keyboard and a joystick! The switch determines how far you press the key which makes it ideal for racing games.
Finally there's the hall effect switch, which dates back to the late 70's it's a contact-less form switch which uses a magnet passed by a sensor. A chinese company made the XMIT Hall Effect keyboard.
so, whats the future of the mechanical switch? whether from the contact-less switches optical and the hall effect or from the different cherry, topre and gateron?

7amda

05 Feb 2018, 17:59

...and still no reply xD

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kbdfr
The Tiproman

05 Feb 2018, 18:05

7amda wrote: ...and still no reply xD
Welcome to Deskthority, the calm, placid and serene place to discuss keyboards :lol:

7amda

05 Feb 2018, 18:13

kbdfr wrote:
7amda wrote: ...and still no reply xD
Welcome to Deskthority, the calm, placid and serene place to discuss keyboards :lol:
yeah i see. I'll be back back in a few weeks. hopefully to get any replies :|

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green-squid

05 Feb 2018, 21:32

I think Cherry MX, like it or not (my main man Chyros does not like them for valid reasons, but for the average gamer, they will still be enough of a step up from rubber dome) will be the dominant switch type on mainstream keyboards like the corsair K line. But since they don't come cheap, competitive chinese brands like kailh will (and already) put them in a corner, and the buzzword 'authentic cherry switches from Germany(Tm)' will lose meaning.

I think new tech like NEW (not honeywell) hall effect stuff will be a bit more mainstream once there are more types like clicky and tactile, though I don't think Bloody's switch will really take over soon. But we will see. I only typed on one at a store and it was terrible (very short travel and tacky as hell). Maybe they should get out other ones.

Gaming will always be the dominant reason for most average joes (not enthusiasts) to buy mechs, unless prices really go down and we start seeing them bundled with OEM desktops.

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PlacaFromHell

05 Feb 2018, 21:41

Welcome! Do not despair, sometimes you won't get replies at all.
About the gaming switches, I think would be cool to have some hall effect maglev-like analogic switches or at least capacitive analogic switches, anyway BS gaming is really cool! About typing switches, I think there is no more to do with them.

7amda

05 Feb 2018, 22:54

green-squid wrote: I think Cherry MX, like it or not (my main man Chyros does not like them for valid reasons, but for the average gamer, they will still be enough of a step up from rubber dome) will be the dominant switch type on mainstream keyboards like the corsair K line. But since they don't come cheap, competitive chinese brands like kailh will (and already) put them in a corner, and the buzzword 'authentic cherry switches from Germany(Tm)' will lose meaning.

I think new tech like NEW (not honeywell) hall effect stuff will be a bit more mainstream once there are more types like clicky and tactile, though I don't think Bloody's switch will really take over soon. But we will see. I only typed on one at a store and it was terrible (very short travel and tacky as hell). Maybe they should get out other ones.

Gaming will always be the dominant reason for most average joes (not enthusiasts) to buy mechs, unless prices really go down and we start seeing them bundled with OEM desktops.
i don't see the hall effect keyboard interesting as the optical switch. Both optical and hall effect switches are rated @ 100 mill keystrokes. The wooting one seems like the future keyboard to me since the sensor determines how far you press thew key, i mean that is super interesting for a keyboard! The premium kit comes with a tactile blue and the linear reds switches, you can easily swap them with the puller. it also uses cherry stems for custom keycaps.

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Daniel Beardsmore

05 Feb 2018, 23:41

I guess I'd go for whichever one uses less power to operate. I want to get my hands on [wiki]Tokai SPT-0101[/wiki], an optical switch that takes Alps keycaps. Sadly I think I found those just after Tokai went bust, so I was not able to ask about them :(

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just_add_coffee

06 Feb 2018, 00:58

The future of ALL switches is zilch. Nada. Nothing. The near-future is voice, and the not-too-distant-future is thought. But in the here-and-now, the best mechanical switch is old school IBM buckling spring, though if you like artisan keysets, keycaps, customization, color, etc., you should give the newest Kailh offerings a look.

ClickMe

06 Feb 2018, 01:25

just_add_coffee wrote: The future of ALL switches is zilch. Nada. Nothing. The near-future is voice, and the not-too-distant-future is thought.
Count me out of that vision of the future. :cry: If my computer knows what I'm thinking, so will the government. They may not care that I hate their kleptocratic oligarchy with a passion, or maybe they will. Whatever. Not my kind of future. But I agree with you, that's the direction we're going - voice and then thought. However, we would need a new user interface for that... imagine talking to your computer: "Key up, key up, key up, type blah blah, key left, backspace..."
Last edited by ClickMe on 06 Feb 2018, 06:04, edited 4 times in total.

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Daniel Beardsmore

06 Feb 2018, 01:28

ClickMe wrote: Count me out of that vision of the future. :cry: If my computer knows what I'm thinking, so will the government.
If a computer tuned into my thoughts, it would immediately catch fire.

Findecanor

06 Feb 2018, 02:10

The future is silent, tactile, smooth, stable and ... low-profile (whether you like it or not).

The objective benefits that mechanical keyboards have brought have been mid-point actuation with overtravel for cushioning for less tired fingers, NKRO and being able to customise/mod/build your own.
Combine those properties with the those at the top and you have got something.

Many people have got used to rubber domes being silent and do not want to give that up.
Others have got used to smooth switches and do not want to give that up.
Enthusiasts who don't care about smoothness and stability (Alps-lovers) or silence (clicky switch lovers) or tactility (lovers of vintage linears) are actually in the minority. That is when enthusiasts who spend mucho on Topre (silent, tactile, smooth and stable but tiresome for fingers) are growing.
Last edited by Findecanor on 06 Feb 2018, 02:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Elrick

06 Feb 2018, 02:18

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:
ClickMe wrote: Count me out of that vision of the future. :cry: If my computer knows what I'm thinking, so will the government.
If a computer tuned into my thoughts, it would immediately catch fire.
Don't think any Computer could ever read my mind because I'm about as complicated as Vegemite on Toast.

Findecanor

06 Feb 2018, 02:24

We would need "neural nanonics" before computers could read our minds. Anything on the outside of the head would be too imprecise.

I have played "mind ball" games a few times with EEG sensors on my head. You control that by blanking your mind, like when you meditate. That is totally opposite to using it as a tool.

ClickMe

06 Feb 2018, 04:04

Elrick wrote: I'm about as complicated as Vegemite on Toast.
I think any civilized AI computer would be taken aback to find out that you are spreading Vegemite on your toast and not delicious Nutella. :lol:

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fohat
Elder Messenger

06 Feb 2018, 14:07

I would hate to be in a public place with everyone speaking out loud whatever they wanted to put into their computers.

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hansichen

06 Feb 2018, 14:13

green-squid wrote: I think Cherry MX, like it or not (my main man Chyros does not like them for valid reasons, but for the average gamer, they will still be enough of a step up from rubber dome) will be the dominant switch type on mainstream keyboards like the corsair K line. But since they don't come cheap, competitive chinese brands like kailh will (and already) put them in a corner, and the buzzword 'authentic cherry switches from Germany(Tm)' will lose meaning
I disagree. Cherry is still the only manufacturer that proves that their switches hit 50 million actuations per switch whereas the chinese manufactures mainly advertise it as up to 50/70 million actuations. I wonder what numbers Cherry would reach in that regard. Also Cherry stepped up their game with the new retooled blacks and also with the best pricing on the market. Loose Cherry switches are available for 0.22$ each, that's a pricing where no other switch can compete imo. Also Cherry has the best reputation on the biggest market of the world, they will definetly fight back in future.

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Wodan
ISO Advocate

06 Feb 2018, 14:37

I consider the mechanical keyboard a rapidly growing market currently and think there is plenty of room for switch manufacturers ...


Cherry is finally waking up, the Chinese companies still have to grow up. Making good switches is only half the job. You have to prove yourself as a reliable, professional partner for a long term product portfolio. That means making the identical switch for more than 6 months ... yeah Gateron, I am talking to you.

And even at 0.22$ I am sure Cherry switches are still a lot more expensive than their Chinese clones. The prices we pay for Gaterons and Kailh switches probably makes them laugh in China, the wholesale prices for these switches must be a fraction of that.

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vometia
irritant

06 Feb 2018, 14:52

green-squid wrote: I think Cherry MX, like it or not (my main man Chyros does not like them for valid reasons, but for the average gamer, they will still be enough of a step up from rubber dome) will be the dominant switch type on mainstream keyboards like the corsair K line. But since they don't come cheap, competitive chinese brands like kailh will (and already) put them in a corner, and the buzzword 'authentic cherry switches from Germany(Tm)' will lose meaning.
I must admit to also not liking Cherries particularly, although that's purely a matter of taste and I'm a buckling spring girl. But they're certainly ubiquitous and are largely responsible for a bit of a renaissance of the mechanical keyboard, the alternatives to which are too awful to contemplate.
Findecanor wrote: The future is silent, tactile, smooth, stable and ... low-profile (whether you like it or not).
ew
just_add_coffee wrote: The future of ALL switches is zilch. Nada. Nothing. The near-future is voice, and the not-too-distant-future is thought. But in the here-and-now, the best mechanical switch is old school IBM buckling spring, though if you like artisan keysets, keycaps, customization, color, etc., you should give the newest Kailh offerings a look.
Certainly agree with the BS, and I really do go green with envy at the nice retro caps available for the other mechanical models. Not familiar with Kailh though, that one has somehow passed me by.

I'm also not desperately keen on a future where voice is the only thing, though I was genuinely surprised and impressed that my gf's wireless telephone could actually decipher my accent and mumbling with a startling degree of accuracy: prior to that my experience had only been online banking where "yes", "no" and a single-digit number had a significantly less than 50% success rate. But voice-activated gaming? Nah.

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just_add_coffee

06 Feb 2018, 15:14

vometia wrote: I'm also not desperately keen on a future where voice is the only thing, though I was genuinely surprised and impressed that my gf's wireless telephone could actually decipher my accent and mumbling with a startling degree of accuracy: prior to that my experience had only been online banking where "yes", "no" and a single-digit number had a significantly less than 50% success rate. But voice-activated gaming? Nah.
That's kinda where I'm coming from. Voice has come a long way over the last few years, and it will only get better given the commonality of voice-operated devices like Google Home, Alexa, Siri, Cortana, etc. Even on my 3-year old Huawei Nexus phone, I almost always use "Ok Google" to send text messages or to find out where Rufus Sewell is from.

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Wodan
ISO Advocate

06 Feb 2018, 15:20

Voice control is a neat feature for certain purposes but I don't want to work in an office where people use voice to dictate their emails ...

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green-squid

06 Feb 2018, 15:27

hansichen wrote:
green-squid wrote: I think Cherry MX, like it or not (my main man Chyros does not like them for valid reasons, but for the average gamer, they will still be enough of a step up from rubber dome) will be the dominant switch type on mainstream keyboards like the corsair K line. But since they don't come cheap, competitive chinese brands like kailh will (and already) put them in a corner, and the buzzword 'authentic cherry switches from Germany(Tm)' will lose meaning
I disagree. Cherry is still the only manufacturer that proves that their switches hit 50 million actuations per switch whereas the chinese manufactures mainly advertise it as up to 50/70 million actuations. I wonder what numbers Cherry would reach in that regard. Also Cherry stepped up their game with the new retooled blacks and also with the best pricing on the market. Loose Cherry switches are available for 0.22$ each, that's a pricing where no other switch can compete imo. Also Cherry has the best reputation on the biggest market of the world, they will definetly fight back in future.
Where can you buy MX blues for that price? I am curious.

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just_add_coffee

06 Feb 2018, 15:27

fohat wrote: I would hate to be in a public place with everyone speaking out loud whatever they wanted to put into their computers.
It would be annoying, both to listen to others doing it and advertising to the world what you're searching Google for.

But the glorious free market will offer us a solution!
Image

Pretty sure our future looks like something out of Black Mirror, on the way to becoming the Borg.

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Wodan
ISO Advocate

06 Feb 2018, 15:35

green-squid wrote:
Where can you buy MX blues for that price? I am curious.
God damnit why do you have to bring up MX blues. And why would you want to BUY those?
I am having a hard time finding places to safely dispose of them.

You don‘t buy MX blues, they are more like something you wake up with after a drunk night at the recycler. You make em some eggs and call them a cab. Then you burn your bed sheets and pour some chlorine oder your genitals.

Just my opinions on clicky MX switches ;)

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green-squid

06 Feb 2018, 15:57

Wodan wrote:
green-squid wrote:
Where can you buy MX blues for that price? I am curious.
God damnit why do you have to bring up MX blues. And why would you want to BUY those?
I am having a hard time finding places to safely dispose of them.

You don‘t buy MX blues, they are more like something you wake up with after a drunk night at the recycler. You make em some eggs and call them a cab. Then you burn your bed sheets and pour some chlorine oder your genitals.

Just my opinions on clicky MX switches ;)
I would love to try them out. I have only tried clicky switches once, like went over with them with my fingers on an old laptop. I left it there to think about buying and looked around a bit at the flea market, and when I came back, it was GONE! :( :( :( :(

They mustn't be that bad!

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Wodan
ISO Advocate

06 Feb 2018, 16:04

The bad thing about artificially clicky switches is that they either have a discrete component to click that will decouple the click from the actuation or are somehow engineered to click when actuating.

If you want clicks, get a Model F ... they're the real thing.

Other than that, it's super hard to really judge MX Blues since they are amongst the oldest MX designs and have greatly varied in their click experience over time and wear. I mean they're on the market for more than 30 years ...

The switch mounting also plays a MAJOR role when evaluating clicky switches since the right plate, tighly mounted, can really improve the acoustic.

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Dingster

06 Feb 2018, 16:44

Hard as hell to get your hands on a model F in EU, if you exclued ebay. Been looking for quite a while now

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green-squid

06 Feb 2018, 16:49

Wodan wrote: The bad thing about artificially clicky switches is that they either have a discrete component to click that will decouple the click from the actuation or are somehow engineered to click when actuating.

If you want clicks, get a Model F ... they're the real thing.

Other than that, it's super hard to really judge MX Blues since they are amongst the oldest MX designs and have greatly varied in their click experience over time and wear. I mean they're on the market for more than 30 years ...

The switch mounting also plays a MAJOR role when evaluating clicky switches since the right plate, tighly mounted, can really improve the acoustic.
I see. I wish I had money for those good clicky switches. They must be so good, but I never find them at the flea market. :( You find them every month! Lucky.

7amda

06 Feb 2018, 17:18

i never tried the old keyboard models from IBM and others, but willing to get one soon a model M or F .
IMO the contact-less switch seems promising in terms of durability and lifespan like the optical and the hall effect.

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FXT
XT

06 Feb 2018, 18:13

You owe it to your fingers to try a Model F. As for lifespan, the F is rated for 100,000,000 keypresses which is more than plenty imo.

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