Hi-Pro vs. SA

[chuckdee]

Originative has really been pushing Hi-Pro lately. They have 3 different pre-orders that are pretty pricey. By pre-order, they have fronted the money for production, and all are near the end of that process currently, delivering from March to May of 2018. Also, because they paid in advance, they are limited to the runs that were paid for- each only having 100 sets.

Not having the wherewithal to join 7-bits rounds, I'm seriously considering purchasing one, and wondered what people thought of them.

First we have Hyperfuse



Next we have Solarized



And Last, Honeywell



Any thoughts? Good or bad?

[zslane]

Well, I'm sure the quality will be good.

But as for the colorways, I have always loathed the look of Hyperfuse. It is a hideously combination of random colors. On the other hand, I like Penumbra, but I prefer cream colored alphas over the white ones. And the last one shouldn't even be called Honeywell. You can't actually put together a keyboard with that set that looks like the Honeywell terminal it is supposedly based on.

[chuckdee]

You can't actually put together a keyboard with that set that looks like the Honeywell terminal it is supposedly based on.

Because of the lack of black numpad keys? I actually like the GMK version, and have it on one of my dailies, and personally think that livingspeedbump did a good job bringing it forward. But I don't use the numpad, so I can see how one might be less than warm about that lack.

As far as Hyperfuse, I'm a fan. I have it on another of my dailies.

[Myoth]

what do you mean by HiPro ? you have linked a single one of them ? I'm sure I understand the meaning of yourbpost, are you asking which of these colour ways we prefer or how does HiPro (Topre profile) compares to SA ?

[Laser]

It seems that Originative calls them "Hi Pro" (https://originative.co/sa-sets/), although they are SA sets, made by MAXKEY most probably ... it is quite confusing, yes.

[chuckdee]

what do you mean by HiPro ? you have linked a single one of them ? I'm sure I understand the meaning of yourbpost, are you asking which of these colour ways we prefer or how does HiPro (Topre profile) compares to SA ?

I mean that Originative has been pushing HiPro lately, and Topre already has the profile. I'm just asking who prefers it and why? It's not a single one, but a single outlet that has three HiPro sets in the works, and I've linked the sets. I haven't typed on it, only on SA. So I was asking what people think about it in general. I know there was another thread where people expressed some opinions but it was for something completely different, and the thread wasn't geared towards it. So I figured I'd start a thread, as I'm looking at purchasing it.

Does that answer your question?

[chuckdee]

It seems that Originative calls them "Hi Pro" (https://originative.co/sa-sets/), although they are SA sets, made by MAXKEY most probably ... it is quite confusing, yes.

They are not SA, if you look at the profile. And they are made by SP, which is very much indicated if you look at one of the product pages. From https://originative.co/sa-sets/#/sa-solarized/

MADE IN WASHINGTON, USA
MANUFACTURED BY SIGNATURE PLASTICS
ABS PLASTIC
DOUBLE-SHOT
HIGH PROFILE
SCULPTED 1-1-2-3-4-4
SOLARIZED PENUMBRA COLORS

[Myoth]

what do you mean by HiPro ? you have linked a single one of them ? I'm sure I understand the meaning of yourbpost, are you asking which of these colour ways we prefer or how does HiPro (Topre profile) compares to SA ?

I mean that Originative has been pushing HiPro lately, and Topre already has the profile. I'm just asking who prefers it and why? It's not a single one, but a single outlet that has three HiPro sets in the works, and I've linked the sets. I haven't typed on it, only on SA. So I was asking what people think about it in general. I know there was another thread where people expressed some opinions but it was for something completely different, and the thread wasn't geared towards it. So I figured I'd start a thread, as I'm looking at purchasing it.

Does that answer your question?

it does but the set you linked are just regular SA ... SA is high profile, and HiPro is high profile but SA isn't HiPro.

the sets here are just good ol' SA, look at the link you provided after this reply ... "originative.co/sa-sets"

[zslane]

You can't actually put together a keyboard with that set that looks like the Honeywell terminal it is supposedly based on.

Because of the lack of black numpad keys?

Well, it's more than just the lack of a black numpad, but that is a major reason. Others are:

1. Gray on white alphas rather than black on white.
2. F-row has alternating color blocks rather than all gray.
3. No red keys for the F-row (aside from ESC).
4. Red text-arrow keys? WTF?

Hey, if you want to like those sets, by all means like them. Just don't call them "Honeywell". In fact, that colorway does have its own name, "Ashen". OCO should be selling it under that name, and GMK Honeywell should have been called GMK Ashen.

[chuckdee]

what do you mean by HiPro ? you have linked a single one of them ? I'm sure I understand the meaning of yourbpost, are you asking which of these colour ways we prefer or how does HiPro (Topre profile) compares to SA ?

I mean that Originative has been pushing HiPro lately, and Topre already has the profile. I'm just asking who prefers it and why? It's not a single one, but a single outlet that has three HiPro sets in the works, and I've linked the sets. I haven't typed on it, only on SA. So I was asking what people think about it in general. I know there was another thread where people expressed some opinions but it was for something completely different, and the thread wasn't geared towards it. So I figured I'd start a thread, as I'm looking at purchasing it.

Does that answer your question?

it does but the set you linked are just regular SA ... SA is high profile, and HiPro is high profile but SA isn't HiPro.

the sets here are just good ol' SA, look at the link you provided after this reply ... "originative.co/sa-sets"

They are not. They are hi-pro, and no matter what the link says, if you look at the product pages, they are hi-pro.

You can't actually put together a keyboard with that set that looks like the Honeywell terminal it is supposedly based on.

Because of the lack of black numpad keys?

Well, it's more than just the lack of a black numpad, but that is a major reason. Others are:

1. Gray on white alphas rather than black on white.
2. F-row has alternating color blocks rather than all gray.
3. No red keys for the F-row (aside from ESC).
4. Red text-arrow keys? WTF?

Hey, if you want to like those sets, by all means like them. Just don't call them "Honeywell". In fact, that colorway does have its own name, "Ashen". OCO should be selling it under that name, and GMK Honeywell should have been called GMK Ashen.

So, in other words, you think that livingspeedbump cribbed from someone else? Looking at SA ashen, it has significant differences from GMK Honeywell, and this set. I get that some people are very much traditionalists, but I think that if they were made with Honeywell in mind, the only people that are, in fact, capable of telling people not to call them Honeywell is, indeed that company.

[Laser]

You will have to come up with some way of proving that the profile is not SA, especially since the keycaps are made by SP.

[chuckdee]

You will have to come up with some way of proving that the profile is not SA, especially since the keycaps are made by SP.

Why is that onus on me? As I stated, my interest in this was finding out what people thought of Hi-Pro, so I could make an informed decision based on that, as I haven't used it. I provided the links as an example- that's it. Not as a promotion, and not something that I have any involvement in. Yet, it has been turned into something as if I'm an advocate for them.

Again, let me state it plainly.

Not having the wherewithal to join 7-bits rounds, I'm seriously considering purchasing one, and wondered what people thought of them.

Any thoughts? Good or bad?

[Laser]

Because there is nothing to talk about then. SP's "high profile" keycaps *are* SA keycaps (it's not like they can change their tooling just like that), and they have nothing to do with Topre's HiPro profile. The rest is wishful thinking, combined with an unfortunate Originative marketing term.

[scottc]

So we're hypothesising that "Hi-Pro" is the name of a new (as of yet unheard of) Signature Plastics profile, and that it doesn't just stand for "high profile" (but probably still SA)? I'm unsure.

What makes you think that they aren't just SA? The renders? I don't think they can be trusted as a realistic representation of the profile, but that said I think they look a lot like SA.

Has anyone contacted Originative for info about this? I feel like there is just some misunderstanding here. It's quite likely that they're either SA by SP or "Generic High Profile Keycap Mount" by MaxKey (who can't call them SA for legal reasons or something) and the Signature Plastics mention on the product page is just a copy/paste blunder.

[Khers]

The product page urls say sa-sets and sa-whatever. My take home message is that it would be the same horrible sa profile and I don't get where you get the notion it would be something else from.

[chuckdee]

They had a news article on it when they first started production. Its not there now. They also have other SA sets- even the ones that they are running now or have in stock (Hyperfuse Origins/Hyperfuse) that are clearly stated as SA. Why the distinction if there isn't one? Nothing that I can prove, but I was just asking about Hi-Pro vs SA, not these particular sets. You might be right, perhaps I read wrong when the article was available.

All I wanted to know was what the profile feels like to people that actually have used it in any form, in the case that the way they're advertising it is actually correct. I know someone said something about the tops being different. Anything else?

The product page urls say sa-sets and sa-whatever. My take home message is that it would be the same horrible sa profile and I don't get where you get the notion it would be something else from.

Look at the pages, rather than just the URLs, and you can get where that comes from. Also from a prior blog post on the subject, before he altered his site design.

[Myoth]

They are not. They are hi-pro, and no matter what the link says, if you look at the product pages, they are hi-pro.

I'm sorry but how are they not ? it clearly says ''SA Solarized'' ''SA Honeywell'' and ''SA Hyperfuse''. I'm really curious as to why you deny the fact that they are SA in such a defensive way. When even the vendors is calling them ''SA xxxxx'', I don't really see how you can be sure that they aren't ...

[Khers]

From the product page for hyperfuse:

Last year we launched hi-pro HyperFuse, and we are bringing it back in Pro 1-1-2-3-4-4.

That would imply that whatever they launched last year was what they call Hi-Pro, thus it's SA and they just don't care enough to be stringent.

[chuckdee]

Can anyone just answer the question at hand? I'm not asking to argue anything, but to ask that.

All I wanted to know was what the profile feels like to people that actually have used it in any form, in the case that the way they're advertising it is actually correct. I know someone said something about the tops being different. Anything else?

[Khers]

We're merely stating that your question isn't a question as what oco is referring to as hi-pro is sa and thus this hi-pro and sa would feel the same as they are, in fact, the same.

[Myoth]

I don't think we can help you unfortunately .. you're trying to ask us something about a profile that nobody apart from you as ever heard about.

the only HiPro I know of is :



but this kind of profile wouldn't be sold by Originative ...

Is this the profile you were talking about ?

[Laser]

The only place where you'd find the elusive HiPro profile is on a Topre keyboard (e.g. here)

To add to the confusion, now some people also call Matt3o's /dev/tty keycaps Hi-Profile (MD does it, too).

[chuckdee]

We're merely stating that your question isn't a question as what oco is referring to as hi-pro is sa and thus this hi-pro and sa would feel the same as they are, in fact, the same.

That is what you think, from the evidence you've gathered, even though it says Hi-Pro in the description on the page. I'm not disputing your opinion on that. But that wasn't the question at hand. Those were just examples.

I don't think we can help you unfortunately .. you're trying to ask us something about a profile that nobody apart from you as ever heard about.

the only HiPro I know of is :



but this kind of profile wouldn't be sold by Originative ...

Is this the profile you were talking about ?

I don't know. I've only ever seen a side image of the profile that Sherry posted. I can't find it currently, but he was comparing it to SA, which is why I don't think they're the same. I don't know that he wasn't blowing smoke, when he talked about working with SA to get these sets right in that regard and bringing a new experience to MX.

All I know is that if I order it, I might be getting something like the Topre Hi-Pro as that's what the pictures looked like. And I wondered what people thought about them.

[Khers]

Have you tried clicking one of the buy now-links? What does that page tell you?

What oco sells is nothing other than sa.

Now, if the question is a more general "what is the difference between sa and hi-pro?", it would be impossible to answer as, as others have pointed out to you, many different profiles are called hi-pro as it is quite a general term. If the question is "what is the difference between sa and Topre's hi-pro?", as that's what up until currently was THE profile referred to as hi-pro, I can tell you that the difference is quite pronounced but I don't like any of them so you'd get a better view from someone else.

Maybe the news thing you're referring to is the revivial of sp's ss-profile, but this ain't that. I've also seen it announced, but not yet as a product you could buy.

[Myoth]

I don't know. I've only ever seen a side image of the profile that Sherry posted. I can't find it currently, but he was comparing it to SA, which is why I don't think they're the same. I don't know that he wasn't blowing smoke, when he talked about working with SA to get these sets right in that regard and bringing a new experience to MX.

All I know is that if I order it, I might be getting something like the Topre Hi-Pro as that's what the pictures looked like. And I wondered what people thought about them.

OH I think I know what you're tlaking about, aren't you talking about DSS ?

[chuckdee]

I don't know. I've only ever seen a side image of the profile that Sherry posted. I can't find it currently, but he was comparing it to SA, which is why I don't think they're the same. I don't know that he wasn't blowing smoke, when he talked about working with SA to get these sets right in that regard and bringing a new experience to MX.

All I know is that if I order it, I might be getting something like the Topre Hi-Pro as that's what the pictures looked like. And I wondered what people thought about them.

OH I think I know what you're tlaking about, aren't you talking about DSS ?

The picture looked more like the first row (num row) was sort of flat-ish, the second row (q-row) Very high, then formed a curve down and then up to the 4th (z) row, which was very high (higher than SA), and the 5th (space bar row) was again flat. It didn't look like anything I'd seen, and in all honesty looked uncomfortable. But that was in a drawing, and I didn't know if it was different when actually seen in person, and when used. Maybe it was just SA and the pictures were off. I don't know.

I think I've settled on getting it no matter what, so I guess whether I like them is pretty moot and I'll see once they get here. And post pictures so you can either laugh at being right, or see the difference, whatever it is.

Thanks!

[Myoth]

Alright, you'll have to tell us !!

Last time I promise ! but wouldn't it be this then ? (dev/tty/ from matt3o)

[chuckdee]

That looks closer... maybe I was just confusing the two. I still remember the first row being higher, and the middle rows being lower. But who knows with my memory.

[zslane]

So, in other words, you think that livingspeedbump cribbed from someone else? Looking at SA ashen, it has significant differences from GMK Honeywell, and this set.

No, I don't think livingspeedbump "cribbed" from an existing set. I think he just picked a medium-dark gray, paired it with white, sprinkled a few red keycaps in and decided to call it Honeywell (mostly because he liked certain limited aspects of Round 5/6 Honeywell, the name in particular). But I would say that both GMK Honeywell and this OCO "Honeywell" set have far more in common with SA Ashen than they do with Round 5/6 Honeywell (or the Honeywell terminal that inspired Round 5/6).

[chuckdee]

That's what he said was his inspiration. And I'm willing to take him at his word. But it's not something I want to continue with in all honesty.