Seeking advice on Model F maintenance

Bass · 04 Apr 2018, 18:44

Hi all,

Been a long time lurker in this community and was looking for some advice. I recently purchased a Model F AT on r/mechmarket and am really loving this thing so far. Dare I say, capacitive buckling springs might be my new favorite switch. One of the previous owners already took the liberty of installing xwhatsit's controller so I am also pleased by how easy it has been to reprogram the layout.

However one of the legs snapped off during shipping, and a single screw on the back panel is missing. I am typing this post on this keyboard so these two issues aren't really that big of a deal so far but I would like to deal with them properly, and I figured that there are plenty of other Model F owners on here who have experienced these issues. So if anyone can provide me some assistance, that would be much appreciated.

I would also like to know a good source for stabilizer inserts, since I am also thinking about modifying the layout a bit.

Thanks!

fohat · 04 Apr 2018, 19:02

You can probably find a screw that will work at a hardware store, but it is likely to have a different head such as a Philips head.

The leg will be a lot harder to find, and XT and AT legs are not the same. If it is just the "ear" you can file them both down to match and not have to worry about them breaking off again.

Stabilizers are available from Unicomp for $1.50 each and there are vertical and horizontal variants (if you modify the layout you will be needing new caps, too).

orihalcon · 04 Apr 2018, 19:05

Agree with Fohat, AT legs are kind of hard to find as most people don't tend to part them out and they are different than any other Model F leg even though they look pretty similar from the outside to XT Legs. Might be worth either making it symmetrical and flattening out the knob on both sides if one is already broken off.

As far as stabilizers go, you can get them new from unicomp for $1.50 each, though the shipping might quite a bit compared to the purchase price. A lot of times sellers that have caps for sale may have stabilizers that came from model M's. Do note that to change the layout, you will have to completely open it up to remove hammers that are in barrels that you'll be putting the stabilizers into which is kind of a pain, but definitely doable. You may want to replace the foam if it is degraded while you're in there if that wasn't already done, which is time consuming, but worth it for a daily driver.

Best of luck and enjoy that AT!

Bass · 04 Apr 2018, 19:20

Thanks for the quick responses. The seller was generous enough to provide me a TON of spare keycaps, so I'll only need stabilizer inserts. Other than the legs the rest of the board including the foam (recently replaced by seller) was in immaculate condition, so I am not too worried about that. The layout was also ANSI modded but the backspace key was placed above the Enter key in place of \ (like in the HHKB), which I have already started to get used to but I do worry it might interfere with my muscle memory once I start swapping to another board at work, so I think it might be prudent to use a standard 2U backspace.

As for the feet what I am doing right now is keeping one of the legs up while sticking the broken leg back underneath where it broke off, this seems to be working fine for me now so far but of course I'll have to adjust it again every time I move the keyboard, so I was wondering if reattaching the snapped off leg back to the ear with some high strength epoxy or super glue, or if I would be better off using other means to elevate the board as an alternative to the feet.

JP! · 04 Apr 2018, 19:24

You could also attempt to epoxy glue the broken plastic piece. Maybe someone could possibly 3D print this part.

Edit: Better yet have the leg custom machined out of brass so that it will never break

__red__ · 04 Apr 2018, 20:44

I've seen somewhere an STL for the legs in my travels...

Darkshado · 04 Apr 2018, 22:20

Seems Digi-key has black plastic plugs which should be a good fit and wouldn't look too out of place. I haven't tried them yet but will probably order to protect the legs which I don't use and to get a narrower footprint.

Quick question: does your keyboard have a modded plate to use two additional modifiers with the Model M space bar instead of the longer and much heavier AT one? (I haven't gotten around to solving the problem of the thicker M-style stabilizer wire interfering with the X and period caps when depressed.)

0100010 · 05 Apr 2018, 00:46

Shave the underside of the caps to clear the stab wire.

OP, screw size is likely M4 x .07.

fohat · 06 Apr 2018, 01:46

Darkshado wrote: ↑
I haven't gotten around to solving the problem of the thicker M-style stabilizer wire interfering with the X and period caps when depressed.

The thicker wire does not fit into the F-style tabs, so they have to be removed.

I have fabricated taller replacements out of sheet metal and epoxied them down, but wcass's trick of using 7/16" SAE washers is much cleaner and easier.

__red__ · 06 Apr 2018, 03:20

If you want to ship me your "working leg" I'll make a 3D model of it, mirror it, and print you some replacements.

Bass · 08 Apr 2018, 00:46

0100010 wrote: ↑Shave the underside of the caps to clear the stab wire.

OP, screw size is likely M4 x .07.

Thanks, I bought some extra screws from a hardware store in this size and they seem to fit rather snugly.

__red__ wrote: ↑If you want to ship me your "working leg" I'll make a 3D model of it, mirror it, and print you some replacements.

Thanks for the offer. I will consider this if my efforts to glue the broken leg back together end up not working too well.

In the meantime while I wait for my stabilizers and extra caps to arrive from Unicomp, I have been reading some guides regarding (dis)assembly. Repeatedly I am told that I will need to remove all of the caps (except for the spacebar) from the board before separating the plates. Any particular reason for this? Right now I only plan to remove a few of the springs and flippers, so I am wondering if I can save myself some time during reassembly by keeping most of the caps on.

Also, any other tips when reassembling for the first time? One common thing I have heard is that reattaching the plates is often the most finicky part of the process, and that I can potentially have non-working switches if I am not careful. I also purchased a set of clamps to prepare myself for this part.

__red__ · 08 Apr 2018, 01:26

With the keys in, the feet are under pressure so if you open up before removing the caps they'll explode into hundreds of pieces across the room

With the keys out, you can separate the plates and the springs/feet will stay in place.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

fohat · 08 Apr 2018, 01:57

Bass wrote: ↑
One common thing I have heard is that reattaching the plates is often the most finicky part of the process, and that I can potentially have non-working switches if I am not careful.

I also purchased a set of clamps to prepare myself for this part.

It sounds like you read my guide which should give you the basics.

Do not be upset if you have to take it all apart and put it all back together multiple times before you get it right. I have done a couple of dozen of these and it still somethimes takes me 2-3 iterations to get it all together properly.

And yes, unfortunately, you have to take it completely apart every time.

Bass · 10 Apr 2018, 07:29

Alright, I have managed to swap out the springs properly and am now trying to reassemble the board. Thankfully almost all the springs were seated correctly once I managed to put the two plates back together, only one key to the right of my nav cluster doesn't work since one of the springs got bent. I have spare springs, but I don't think it's worth the trouble for me to separate the plates again for a key I literally don't use.

I still have one final hurdle, and that's closing the plastic case. I have actually been at this part for over two hours! I am trying to close it like a book as one guide suggested (eg, I am snapping the panel on the bottom side, then working my way up. Every single time I do this, the bottom snaps back open before I can secure it up top.

EDIT: Starting to think this is a result of me not properly aligning the board with the case. In particular I can't seem to get it underneath the tabs near the front...

EDIT2: After A LOT of frustration, I have finally gotten it fully assembled again!

I must stress, getting everything back together was VERY precise. Even after figuring out the alignment issue above, I still had a lot of trouble getting the top part to close properly. Eventually after repeatedly attempting to do so over and over again, I was able to line up correctly, but I am honestly not sure what I did differently.

In addition, there were a few casualties:

1) The locklight LED doesn't seem to work anymore. I am not sure if I didn't plug the cable in all the way, or if I somehow damaged it during reassembly.
2) Unfortunately after reattaching the foot with epoxy, I snapped it again during my struggle to snap the case back together. I believe I can probably make another attempt later now that I have a better understanding of the reassembly process, since quite honestly it's not that big of a deal and I don't want to have to go through the trouble of opening the case again right now.

Thank you all for all the information. As you can see I had a lot of difficulties during the process, so I can only imagine how much more tedious it would have been if this site didn't exist.

fohat · 10 Apr 2018, 15:06

The F AT is by an order of magnitude the most difficult and frustrating keyboard case that I have ever dealt with.

It is extremely unfortunate that IBM did not use a screw-fastened metal back pan like all other Model Fs.

Blaise170 · 10 Apr 2018, 16:01

So I just received the Model F 5155 that has probably been left outside for decades considering the amount of rust. Are Model M/M2 springs compatible with F and if so is there a major difference in feel?

fohat · 11 Apr 2018, 00:53

Blaise170 wrote: ↑So I just received the Model F 5155 that has probably been left outside for decades considering the amount of rust. Are Model M/M2 springs compatible with F and if so is there a major difference in feel?

I think that they are pretty close, and I know that they can be interchanged.

If the M/F project ever comes back, I know that lot_lizard had a bunch of new springs made. He was going to send me some of the light ones to try out, but never did.