What bothers me about IBM Model M

[Wodan]

Hey, this thread is about IBM Model M!

More specifically, this thread is about expressing an elitist and arrogant contempt towards the Model M. What was IBM thinking? We're the tip of the keyboard elite, we deserve only the best ... Compromise is for the weak. Cost saving is heresy.

[Blaise170]

*cough* new layout indiegogo *cough*

Don't even bring it up, some people are apparently hypersensitive about it.

Hmmm yea ive seen the post on offtopic but its blank...probably for a reason?

Yes, some people were getting especially aggrieved that I made the thread, so I just blanked out my posts.

Hey, this thread is about IBM Model M!

More specifically, this thread is about expressing an elitist and arrogant contempt towards the Model M. What was IBM thinking? We're the tip of the keyboard elite, we deserve only the best ... Compromise is for the weak. Cost saving is heresy.

I can't afford to keep spending hundreds on keyboards. I have far more important things to spend money on now, like saving for a house.

[digital_matthew]

I'm actually of two minds when it comes to the Model F vs. Model M debate. While I do feel that capacative buckling springs are an objectively better switch, sometimes I feel as if they are a bit too light and I start to crave the heaviness and thockiness of membrane buckling springs. As a matter of fact my F122 is taking a break and I'm typing this on a grey badge Model M. It's also worth noting that there are great differences between generations of Model M keyboards. My metal badge 1390120 feels very light and crispy, and even rivals my Model F. Compare this with my blue badge Model M built in Greenock which feels much more scratchy and "thuddy". As for the build quality I couldn't agree more; the Model M doesn't have that "brick shithouse build quality" (thanks, Chyros), but the same argument could be made about the Model F vs. Beam Spring keyboards. Disclaimer, I'm also one of those freaks that appreciates the M2, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

[seebart]

Hey, this thread is about IBM Model M!

More specifically, this thread is about expressing an elitist and arrogant contempt towards the Model M. What was IBM thinking? We're the tip of the keyboard elite, we deserve only the best ... Compromise is for the weak. Cost saving is heresy.

I'm pretty sure IBM were not thinking along those lines, although along similair lines perhaps with the prices they charged.

I can't afford to keep spending hundreds on keyboards. I have far more important things to spend money on now, like saving for a house.

Uhh...possibly I can score some real nice Alps then...

[Dingster]

Still kind of confused as of what was in that thread (sorry for being kind of off topic). Mind telling me ?

[seebart]

Still kind of confused as of what was in that thread

Don't worry about it.

(sorry for being kind of off topic).

Normal around here.

Mind telling me ?

No.

[Iggy]

Still kind of confused as of what was in that thread (sorry for being kind of off topic). Mind telling me ?

Too much attention has already been given to such a negative subject. So no.

[Dingster]

All right then

[depletedvespene]

see! that's how bad they are! even their own threads cant keep on topic

Good one. It's called offtopicthority.

*cough* new layout indiegogo *cough*

Gimme 150.000 euros and I'll share not one but FIVE different layouts for all to peruse for free! And with three Shift keys if you want that, too!

Come to think of it, gimme 15.000.000 euros, so I can do a hostile takeover of Unicomp and I'll actually have those keyboards produced. With Model M flippers, to piss Wodan off, too.

[Blaise170]

Uhh...possibly I can score some real nice Alps then...

Ha Orihalcon has already beat you to it! I've been proxying stuff for him for a few months now.

[Dingster]

And actual SSKs

[seebart]

Uhh...possibly I can score some real nice Alps then...

Ha Orihalcon has already beat you to it! I've been proxying stuff for him for a few months now.

Oh well that's how it goes in the mechanical KB world, of course I got KB's Orihalcon is crazy hot for :

keyboards-f2/ibm-displaywriter-model-f- ... playwriter

[zslane]

Yeah, well, I feel the same way about the Model F as well, as it was a huge step down from the beamspring boards that preceded it. The shift to buckling spring switches, cylindrical keycaps, and corner dye-sub legends marked the end of IBM's greatness in my view. Nothing good ever came out of IBM after they retired their beamspring products. And the quality difference between the eras is so extreme, I just don't understand what anybody sees in IBM's post-beamspring keyboards. Not only are the Model F/M/SSK keyboards compromised by having cost-cutting prioritized over everything else, they are ugly/bland as hell.

[TuxKey]

i don't care for both.. i have bin working in it since early 2001. and stood for many days in computer rooms hacking on IBM terminals. Years later i even worked for them.. well let's just say that having a IBM model anything at home is not something that i would want hahaha.. reminds me to much of work....my early days.. rather move one and stick with my Kailh pro switches.. my MX-clears .. (modded and stock) and my topre 45g ...time for new things..

[Anakey]

well unfortunately not everyone has pockets deep enough to spend todays prices on a beamspring so for the vast majority a model F is about as good as it gets in terms of IBM

[Dingster]

well unfortunately not everyone has pockets deep enough to spend todays prices on a beamspring so for the vast majority a model F is about as good as it gets in terms of IBM

And even model Fs are getting up there in terms of price...

[Iggy]

well unfortunately not everyone has pockets deep enough to spend todays prices on a beamspring so for the vast majority a model F is about as good as it gets in terms of IBM

One day I'll have a beamspring. Then I'll get rid of it and return to my F122.

[Dingster]

well unfortunately not everyone has pockets deep enough to spend todays prices on a beamspring so for the vast majority a model F is about as good as it gets in terms of IBM

One day I'll have a beamspring. Then I'll get rid of it and return to my F122.

Yea looking at your F122, everyone would

[pansku]

I do have to agree that the M's are way too overhyped. When I got mine I thought to myself "Wow this is so much better than the Ducky with MX Blues" not knowing that was more MX Blues just being bad design for a clicky switch. After getting my F XT I realised how wrong I was. MBS is not a bad switch by any means but when compared to CBS the cost cutting really shows. The feel isn't all that bad.

Now that I also have other clicky switches like SKCM Blue and White, Beam springs and Alps SKCP, I have a better understanding of how they all line up. I think that people are paying more for M's than they are worth. The layout is indeed nice and the availability is great but there are so many better options that I can't see why people settle for Model M's when taking into account all the flaws they have. But that's just my 2¢

[Bass]

Yeah, well, I feel the same way about the Model F as well, as it was a huge step down from the beamspring boards that preceded it. The shift to buckling spring switches, cylindrical keycaps, and corner dye-sub legends marked the end of IBM's greatness in my view. Nothing good ever came out of IBM after they retired their beamspring products. And the quality difference between the eras is so extreme, I just don't understand what anybody sees in IBM's post-beamspring keyboards. Not only are the Model F/M/SSK keyboards compromised by having cost-cutting prioritized over everything else, they are ugly/bland as hell.

Typing this on a converted beamspring I just recently obtained. In terms of key feel I do think I prefer it to all of my Model F's, but those are certainly not a marked step down for me in terms of switch-feel. Keycaps on the other hand I couldn't agree more, unlike many here I did not grow up in an era in which spherical keycaps were standard but I must say that I do like them quite a bit more than cylindirical caps, even compared to the really good ones on the Model F. I heard there's a project here that's underway to adapt spherical keycaps to buckling spring keyboards, so if that ever does come to fruition I will definitely be quite excited

Also I remember once hearing a famous youtube reviewer imply that there is a large consensus that beamsprings are superior to buckling springs. But looking around Deskthority, I am not so sure about that. If anything the impression I get from my more recent visits around here are that capacitive buckling springs seem to be the most highly regarded switch. However many of these people also seem to have a 4704 series Model F, which I know are regarded as the best of the bunch. Most likely obtaining one of these (or perhaps an Unsaver) will be one of my next goals like many others here based on recent threads in the Marketplace forum.

[codemonkeymike]

[...] I heard there's a project here that's underway to adapt spherical keycaps to buckling spring keyboards, so if that ever does come to fruition I will definitely be quite excited [...]

workshop-f7/spherical-buckling-spring-t ... 11186.html

I have both a Capacitive BS and Beamspring keyboard and I like the CBS more then the Beamer. It's just more practical, but less fun to type on.

[Chyros]

I think the biggest difference is that Cherry MY boards are not regularly labelled the best keyboards of all time. The Model M is however, and MY boards ARE often named among the WORST keyboards of all time.

[wobbled]

I think the biggest difference is that Cherry MY boards are not regularly labelled the best keyboards of all time. The Model M is however, and MY boards ARE often named among the WORST keyboards of all time.

Right, but the Model M probably is the best keyboard of all time to a lot of people, not everyone prefers the F

[fohat]

Model M gets a lot of points because it enshrined "the" standard modern keyboard layout.

[Bass]

I think it's also important to mention that far more people have used or even know of the Model M. Read any keyboard discussion on another tech site and you'll often find many people reminiscing about the Model M (ie LTT), but you'll probably see no mentions of the Model F. When news about Ellipse's project was reported on these outlets, I saw many people balk at his prices, literally asking why anyone would buy his reproductions over anything from Unicomp. Even on r/mk I occasionally see people who have never heard of the Model F. Hell when I first got into mechanical keyboards in 2011, most of the literature at the time would dedicate many paragraphs about the beloved Model M, and the rare few guides that mentioned the Model F at all merely stated that it was the much more expensive keyboard that the M replaced. I myself am quite regretful that I only got to try one somewhat recently. Had I known better, I would have told my past self to get an Unsaver or F107 back when they were relatively easy to find.

[Elrick]

The Model-M is the Willys Jeep of keyboards.

It is simple but near indestructible and can be customized as much as you like.

So for all those creaming their panties for 'Beamers' always remember, the simple things in life always last far longer .

[Hak Foo]

The biggest problem with buckling spring is limited layout options, especially on larger boards. The 122 has a lot of relocations from a standard ANSI 104

[andrea-i]

The Model-M is the Willys Jeep of keyboards.

It is simple but near indestructible and can be customized as much as you like.

So for all those creaming their panties for 'Beamers' always remember, the simple things in life always last far longer .

I couldn't have said it better!

I fell in love with IBM's keyboards with my F XT, then moved to an M for its layout and then at some point that was it, my XT was covered in dust, the M had won me over.
Nowdays I'm a "thock" enthusiast, don't really miss the F's high pitch.

As for all the other points about how Fs are constructed and designed better than Ms, can't argue, they were a clicking monument to spending the right money on the right materials.
Go ellipse then : D but please do assemble those kishies in the States, please!

[Wodan]

The Model-M is the Willys Jeep of keyboards.

It is simple but near indestructible and can be customized as much as you like.

So for all those creaming their panties for 'Beamers' always remember, the simple things in life always last far longer .

Everyone on Europe is very happy the Willy Jeep is not built like a Model M

I am not aware of a keyboard that is more commonly „broken“. No Cherry or Alps or Topre or ModelF needs something similair to a Bolt Mod. The mounting method of the plastic barrel plate to the steel back plate is nothing but cheap and sluggish. That‘s like shutting the hood of a Willy Jeep with a couple of zip ties...

[Dingster]

The Model-M is the Willys Jeep of keyboards.

It is simple but near indestructible and can be customized as much as you like.

So for all those creaming their panties for 'Beamers' always remember, the simple things in life always last far longer .

Everyone on Europe is very happy the Willy Jeep is not built like a Model M

I am not aware of a keyboard that is more commonly „broken“. No Cherry or Alps or Topre or ModelF needs something similair to a Bolt Mod. The mounting method of the plastic barrel plate to the steel back plate is nothing but cheap and sluggish. That‘s like shutting the hood of a Willy Jeep with a couple of zip ties...

You could probably bolt mod it with zipties