Stupid Model F keycap questions

Red_October · 19 Dec 2018, 21:09

Just a couple small, stupid questions regarding the Model F keycaps and availability thereof...

Were there ever made "Control" keys with the fully-stepped design for either the bottom-row control positions on the F122, or for the position to the left of "A"? For the latter, when I initially configured my F122, I managed to make a control key from a 5150 keyboard fit, but it's not quite right and a little tight, and after about a year started binding up really bad for some reason, so I replaced it with the later design partially-stepped "Control" key from Unicomp. It's funny, I was never a fan of "Control" in this position until I got a Soarer's Converter for my 5150 keyboards, and I had missed the Model F action so strongly that I picked it up in about two days and haven't looked back since, setting up my 6112884 and F122 this way when I got them (especially love the latter as I can put the "Stupid" keys like Caps Lock, Windows and the right-click menu key off on some other block so they're still there if I want to press them for some reason but they're not in the typing block where you can hit them accidentally).

Was there ever a "G" key with the "Bell" sub-legend like an ASCII keyboard?

And I know it's not really a question but I have to say perhaps my only disappointment about the F122 is that some of the keycaps use the mounting style that precludes the use of stepped keycaps as on the 5150 Model F, I have things like backspace and some numpad keys I think in stepped but they don't work as you are obliged to have one with the working stem offset instead of centered.

Aer Fixus · 19 Dec 2018, 22:21

I'm not certain on the "ctrl" key specifically for an F122, but I'm fairly sure there wasn't. There a few different part numbers within the F122 and so I'd stand to be corrected if there was such a board.

And when you say it's tight, is it tight on the stem or tight because it's more than 1.5U? If it's larger than 1.5U, it is probably rubbing on the case and shifting the case one direction or another could fix it. If it's exactly 1.5U, it should fit and work correctly unless there is something wrong with that particular key or switch. Model M and Model F keys are interchangeable. And given it's going from one Model F to another, it should have no problems working if there is enough space for it to move up and down.

And yeah, it's a bit of a shame for us nowadays that the XT layout is so different from what ended up becoming the standard layout. Because of that, a number of the keys have no hope of fitting onto other layouts of IBM keyboards. That issue goes both ways and people have taken great lengths to try and convert XT boards to something more modern.

fohat · 19 Dec 2018, 23:28

If you can accept a key that works but doesn't say "Control" on it I think there are several with legends such as "Enter" or "Reset" that would fit that position.

__red__ · 19 Dec 2018, 23:51

Unicomp will custom print the Ctrl text on that key for you.

Red_October · 20 Dec 2018, 00:27

fohat wrote: ↑If you can accept a key that works but doesn't say "Control" on it I think there are several with legends such as "Enter" or "Reset" that would fit that position.

The keyboard currently has these fitted! Lefthand one has "Reset" on top and "Cancel" on the front, righthand is "Enter".

__red__ wrote: ↑Unicomp will custom print the Ctrl text on that key for you.

Mmm, I have one for "Control" now, but it's the later, Model M-style partly-stepped key and not the fully-stepped one with only a regular-size piece sticking up.

Hypersphere · 20 Dec 2018, 00:57

One of the great things about IBM BS keyboards is that with the curved plate, the keycaps are the same profile regardless of the row. On my XT, I compromised and used non-stepped 1.5u modifiers including the LCtrl to the left of the "A" key. I had Unicomp do some custom printing for Fn, Ctrl, Cmd, and Option. I also ordered these in various colors for use when I wanted to change my mod mood from monochrome to garish.

Red_October · 20 Dec 2018, 10:06

Hypersphere wrote: ↑One of the great things about IBM BS keyboards is that with the curved plate, the keycaps are the same profile regardless of the row. On my XT, I compromised and used non-stepped 1.5u modifiers including the LCtrl to the left of the "A" key. I had Unicomp do some custom printing for Fn, Ctrl, Cmd, and Option. I also ordered these in various colors for use when I wanted to change my mod mood from monochrome to garish.

Interesting. As a Big-Keyboard-Man I find that the general paucity of keys on the XT F precludes the use of such things as Fn, CMD, Option. You stick with Control and Alternate because they're there and there is nothing to sacrifice for an extra key. It's a good thing we haven't discovered a larger Model F than the 122 with a similarly satisfying action because there's precious little room left on my keyboard tray and I'm already using a trackball! The Beamspring Japanese board (I move we either call it Habakkuk or Yamato-class, as there are already Battlecruisers, Battleships, Aircraft Carriers, Fleet Carriers and Super Carriers; Habakkuk after the project to create what would have been the world's largest aircraft carrier, or Yamato-class after the Japanese fighting ships which were the largest battleships to ever sail) I'm not counting because it may as well not exist and it's an Orthogonal which makes sense for what it is but is not something I would type on. I do own a Beamspring and know how good it is, to qualify the statement.

That said I rather like the XT F for what it is, a historical, still usable relic of the root of the modern PC and about as compact a layout as I can come to terms with. It's fantastic to use from bed, because you don't have to move your hands around much, and it's unlikely you'll injure it if you fall asleep without first putting it aside, because it's built so heavily you could probably lay out a burglar with it, if no more suitable persuader were to hand.

Hypersphere · 20 Dec 2018, 16:57

@Red_October: Warning -- some people may find images of brightly colored and inappropriately sized keycaps on IBM BS keyboards disturbing. View at your own risk.

Just wanted to demonstrate one way for expanding one's options on an XT. Following Muirium's lead, I implanted a Teensy and used Soarer's converter to remap things to some semblance of a HHKB layout. You can "sacrifice" some of the keys in the default layer to gain desired functionality and add lost functions and more in one or more Fn layers.

Spoiler:

Color key: Red = Ctrl; Dark Blue = Option/Alt; Light Blue = Fn; Green = Return/Enter; Beige unmarked = Backspace/Delete

Muirium · 20 Dec 2018, 17:02

Some people = me. <rubs eyes>

I can’t stand mismatched sized caps, personally. My fingers are drawn to their wide open gutters. Instead, I leave the caps stock and remap the board in software, learning to type what I want, on what I’ve got. The legends won’t help you, but soon enough you don’t need those training wheels.

Red_October · 21 Dec 2018, 06:44

Hypersphere wrote: ↑@Red_October: Warning -- some people may find images of brightly colored and inappropriately sized keycaps on IBM BS keyboards disturbing. View at your own risk.

Just wanted to demonstrate one way for expanding one's options on an XT. Following Muirium's lead, I implanted a Teensy and used Soarer's converter to remap things to some semblance of a HHKB layout. You can "sacrifice" some of the keys in the default layer to gain desired functionality and add lost functions and more in one or more Fn layers.

Spoiler:
XTkeyleft1a12.jpg

Spoiler:
xt140422r12.jpg
Color key: Red = Ctrl; Dark Blue = Option/Alt; Light Blue = Fn; Green = Return/Enter; Beige unmarked = Backspace/Delete

That's just weird, but, hey, you do you. The colors don't bother me so much, I've got blue & red keycaps on my F122 (it got jealous of the colorful vintage cross-mount caps I found for my 6112884 (The Alps Electric JDM clone of the F107) so I had to put in an order with Unicomp...) but the layout and the smallness of some of the keys throws me off, especially carriage return. Also, in my mind, Fn layers are for really oddball shit you don't use every day, I've got Fn-layer functionality in my F122 but I haven't used it for anything yet as I still have 9 F keys that aren't used for anything at present (seems that some programs natively understand up to F15 for some reason, not sure why they crap out there but as someone who plays heavily modded Minecraft I was overjoyed when I was trying to remap some function that was mapped to a key shared by six other things and I pressed F13 out of desperation and lo and behold it took it.) and I could probably use some of the leftmost block (would be F keys on the XT) as they are presently programmed to be, among other things, media-control keys that don't work exactly like I expected them to.

Hypersphere · 21 Dec 2018, 15:49

That XT was my first keyboard modification, when I still felt the need for "training wheels" (as Muirium noted, and this was the term I applied myself at the time). In fact, the color code even at the time was mainly for the benefit of my colleagues who would try out the board. Now I often go with stealth mode for some or all of the modifiers, and my main keyboards are Alps or Topre while I wait for my new F62 to arrive.

Red_October · 22 Dec 2018, 01:36

Hypersphere wrote: ↑That XT was my first keyboard modification, when I still felt the need for "training wheels" (as Muirium noted, and this was the term I applied myself at the time). In fact, the color code even at the time was mainly for the benefit of my colleagues who would try out the board. Now I often go with stealth mode for some or all of the modifiers, and my main keyboards are Alps or Topre while I wait for my new F62 to arrive.

Heh, I've always shied away from having too many unlabeled keys or keys with wrong legends for fear of having to have someone else use the terminal and them not being able to figure it out because it's already so off from what's expected in terms of where certain keys are and what's done by the ones they think should do what they want. For instance, on my F122, the bottom row has a key where many expect "Control", it says "Reset" but it's a function-layer key. Next is an "Alternate" which is correct, the space bar, another "Alt", then a key that says "Enter" on it, except it's not "Enter" nor "Carriage Return" nor "Line Feed" or anything else you'd expect of a key with that legend, it's actually "Control". Carriage Return is actually "Field Exit" and is in the right place for an ISO layout which itself is not common (although far from unknown) in my country. Likewise the Numpad has no "Enter" no matter how the "Num Lock" is set, although I think I might change that the next time I re-map but other than that and re-mapping they key in the middle of the arrow keys to something else (I left it alone and it's apparently mapped to a key that is ignored by most everything AFAIK) I have little incentive to do this so I haven't yet.