I want to Clone Alp SKCM just like China doing their Cherry MX clone.
- cineraphael
- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: 1992 IBM Model M
- Main mouse: Apple Pro Mouse
- Favorite switch: ALP SKCM BLUE
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
With a rise of a 3D Printer, It can bring me more possibly to creating my own Alp complicated switch. I think I can make a better switch than a Matias as they are only Simplified Alp. I had been studied a part in a disassembled Alp SKCM Blue in Deskthority Wiki and I feel like It could be easy to make thanks to a 3D Printer.
What tool do you think Alp actually used to make their Alp Complicated switch?
If Gateron and Kailh can clone a Cherry MX then Alp Complicated switch should be able to clone them as well. Same with Unicomp.
---- I cannot stand anymore Cherry MX and Gamer deserve a better switches and Everybody should tries Alp SKCM Blue.
What tool do you think Alp actually used to make their Alp Complicated switch?
If Gateron and Kailh can clone a Cherry MX then Alp Complicated switch should be able to clone them as well. Same with Unicomp.
---- I cannot stand anymore Cherry MX and Gamer deserve a better switches and Everybody should tries Alp SKCM Blue.
Alps was a big factory with tolerances to keep the switches as high quality as they are, I do not think a group of hobbyists could recreate something to the same degree as Alps. The majority of cherry mx clones are poorly made and cheap. Also people looking for Alps is already a niche within a niche hobby so I just don't think the demand is there. Sorry if I'm being rude but I don't see a good Alps clone ever happening in a community, I don't think any big company has interest in investing into Alps when other options do just fine for them in their eyes
- Chyros
- Location: The Netherlands
- Main keyboard: whatever I'm reviewing next :p
- Main mouse: a cheap Logitech
- Favorite switch: Alps SKCM Blue
- DT Pro Member: -
I'm really not sure that a 3D printer would be able to recreate the level of precision that injection moulding would, but still I applaud any effort to recreate SKCL/SKCM .
- swampangel
- Location: Canada
- Main keyboard: Northgate Omnikey 101
- DT Pro Member: -
I've had this same thought, but I agree that the tolerances probably put it out of reach.
Still, what would you need to make this happen?
* 3d printed plastic plates
* two contact plates (copper? is it possible to cut it with a hobbyist laser cutter like a glowforge or printer attachment, or do you need a "real" laser?)
* flexible conductive sheet (copper again? how do you bond it to the contact plate?)
* contact leaf and click leaf (stainless steel, has to be cut and bent, I have no idea how you'd bend these to spec)
I assume you'd use existing clone housings/sliders/springs.
I know that metal fab places will bend your steel enclosures. Is there an equivalent for tiny components? If I was really going to do this, I might just start by trying* to get a factory to fab some replacement tai-hao style skinny click leaves but in steel instead of copper.
* I don't even know how hard this first step would be
Still, what would you need to make this happen?
* 3d printed plastic plates
* two contact plates (copper? is it possible to cut it with a hobbyist laser cutter like a glowforge or printer attachment, or do you need a "real" laser?)
* flexible conductive sheet (copper again? how do you bond it to the contact plate?)
* contact leaf and click leaf (stainless steel, has to be cut and bent, I have no idea how you'd bend these to spec)
I assume you'd use existing clone housings/sliders/springs.
I know that metal fab places will bend your steel enclosures. Is there an equivalent for tiny components? If I was really going to do this, I might just start by trying* to get a factory to fab some replacement tai-hao style skinny click leaves but in steel instead of copper.
* I don't even know how hard this first step would be
Last edited by swampangel on 28 Jan 2019, 19:10, edited 1 time in total.
- vvp
- Main keyboard: Katy/K84CS
- Main mouse: symetric 5-buttons + wheel
- Favorite switch: Cherry MX
- DT Pro Member: -
It would not. FDM/FFF and SLA are ruled out. The vertical wall will not be smooth enough.
Maybe SLS printers can get enough resolution and detail but I did not hear about an SLS printer resin which would not be brittle when cured. Also the price of the 3D printed switches would be prohibitive.
But you can reasonably well 3D print keyboard cases and switch plates or even keycaps. Well, 3D printing keycaps is up to discussion. I use a few 3D printed keycaps though.
- abrahamstechnology
- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: Laser with SMK Cherry mount
- Main mouse: Mitsumi ECM-S3902
- Favorite switch: Alps and Alps clones
- DT Pro Member: 0212
I'd say don't bother with a switchplate, simplified contacts can outlast switchplates if done right. The main things you need to get right are the housing, and click leaf.
- snacksthecat
- ✶✶✶✶
- Location: USA
- Main keyboard: SSK
- Main mouse: BenQ ZOWIE EC1-A
- DT Pro Member: 0205
- Contact:
But if the goal is to recreate the True Alps Feel™, you're not going to get it without one of theseabrahamstechnology wrote: ↑28 Jan 2019, 19:16I'd say don't bother with a switchplate, simplified contacts can outlast switchplates if done right. The main things you need to get right are the housing, and click leaf.
- Menuhin
- Location: Germany
- Main keyboard: HHKB PD-KB400BN lubed, has Hasu Bt Controller
- Main mouse: How to make scroll ring of Expert Mouse smoother?
- Favorite switch: Gateron ink lubed
- DT Pro Member: -
- abrahamstechnology
- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: Laser with SMK Cherry mount
- Main mouse: Mitsumi ECM-S3902
- Favorite switch: Alps and Alps clones
- DT Pro Member: 0212
That's what this style of contact leaf replicatessnacksthecat wrote: ↑28 Jan 2019, 19:37But if the goal is to recreate the True Alps Feel™, you're not going to get it without one of theseabrahamstechnology wrote: ↑28 Jan 2019, 19:16I'd say don't bother with a switchplate, simplified contacts can outlast switchplates if done right. The main things you need to get right are the housing, and click leaf.
- //gainsborough
- ALPSの日常
- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: some kind of alps keyboard
- Favorite switch: clk: SKCM blue, lin: SKCL cream, tac: SKCM cream
- DT Pro Member: 0188
But it replicates it very poorly =/
- abrahamstechnology
- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: Laser with SMK Cherry mount
- Main mouse: Mitsumi ECM-S3902
- Favorite switch: Alps and Alps clones
- DT Pro Member: 0212
But it works and realistically is probably the best we can hope for, for now. At least it doesn't make an obnoxious bump or make the slider stick like Matias's contact leaf.
- Chyros
- Location: The Netherlands
- Main keyboard: whatever I'm reviewing next :p
- Main mouse: a cheap Logitech
- Favorite switch: Alps SKCM Blue
- DT Pro Member: -
If you go with simplified contacts, you're compromising. If there's ONE thing that all the Alps clones have shown us so far (and indeed so many other switch designs), it's that you shouldn't compromise.
- Menuhin
- Location: Germany
- Main keyboard: HHKB PD-KB400BN lubed, has Hasu Bt Controller
- Main mouse: How to make scroll ring of Expert Mouse smoother?
- Favorite switch: Gateron ink lubed
- DT Pro Member: -
- zrrion
- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: F122
- Main mouse: Microsoft IntelliMouse
- Favorite switch: ALPS SKCC Cream
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
that's not to say the design can't be optimized, but there is certainly a difference between cutting costs and cutting corners.
- Menuhin
- Location: Germany
- Main keyboard: HHKB PD-KB400BN lubed, has Hasu Bt Controller
- Main mouse: How to make scroll ring of Expert Mouse smoother?
- Favorite switch: Gateron ink lubed
- DT Pro Member: -
This
BTW, referring to the OP - I believe not many pro gamers / gaming guru like clicky switches - most of them like linear switches.
Plus, if you look at the force curve, Alps linear switches are not pure linear; and the pure linear switches are MX switches and a few other designs, e.g. magnetic - although pure linear can mean boring.
- swampangel
- Location: Canada
- Main keyboard: Northgate Omnikey 101
- DT Pro Member: -
Seems this ought to be a thread for dreaming big.abrahamstechnology wrote: ↑28 Jan 2019, 20:34But it works and realistically is probably the best we can hope for, for now.
My main complaint about the simplified contacts is they're more fragile/finicky when assembling/disassembling. Which you wouldn't need to do if the switches were reliable as a total package (contact+click)