Not Sure I'm Happy with Cherry MX...

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Muirium
µ

06 Feb 2019, 19:25

purdobol wrote:
06 Feb 2019, 19:07
mattlach wrote:
06 Feb 2019, 18:57
My guiding philosophy is, "If it's on Youtube, it;'s probably crap".

I trust written articles. I don't trust anything anyone says in a Youtube video.
Well my guiding philosophy is "experience". An opinion of a person that tried and used many different switches has more weight than... you know. At least it's seriously taken into consideration. No matter if it's written one or on youtube.
That’s more like it. The way I factor these things is how much knowledge is on show. If it’s a gut opinion without anything else, it’s striclty provisional. Chops matter.

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mattlach

06 Feb 2019, 19:59

stratokaster wrote:
06 Feb 2019, 19:05
Spoken like a true youthful maximalist, as we say in Russia :-D
Not sure I understand the term.

Wouldn't someone who prefers media content over simple written text be the maximalist, and the one who prefers the written text be more of a minimalist? :p

Nothing sucks more than reviews or opinion pieces in videos. You are subjected to someone else's terrible taste in music, endless videos starting with the words "hey guys..." wasted dead time for their intro and logo, a mass of video that is difficult to navigate compared to a well structured body of text, you can easily skim to the section of interest, and the incessant begging for viewers to like and/or subscribe (which I always refuse to do)

And then there's the little fact that spoken word is so painfully slow compared to reading. At least among those of us who are reasonably literate.

Seriously, unless you are dealing with "how to" content, a video is one of the worst possible formats to convey information. Well thought out and written articles are always vastly superior.

Youtube used to be a good tool back when all it was used for was sharing small clips. You could even embed them in a well written article to show something that couldn't easily be demonstrated in writing.

Ever since Google started sharing ad revenue with people who post videos, shit has been going downhill though. Every little annoying kid want's to be a youtube personality. They can't even enjoy their videogames anymore without trying to record and share everything they do on their "channel".

Normally I take a live and let live approach to new things. My take is, while I may not like it, others might. I don't have to use it. The problem with this internet video garbage - however - is that it is ruining important things as the traditional written article, and that is just awful.

I wish Youtube would:
- Remove all revenue sharing with content creators
- Limit clips in length to ~ 20 seconds

That ought to go a long way to fix things.

Other than that, I wish online video content would just die a horrible death and go away. Everything, including Twitch and other such nonsense.

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swampangel

06 Feb 2019, 20:59

mattlach wrote:
06 Feb 2019, 19:59
Wouldn't someone who prefers media content over simple written text be the maximalist, and the one who prefers the written text be more of a minimalist? :p
In a political sense, it means you're not interested in compromise. :)

I too prefer written content to video. I get frustrated when a transcript is unavailable. But despite that, I can't say I agree with you. Video is popular because many people find it more accessible than reading pages of text, for better or worse.

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subcat

06 Feb 2019, 21:01

text, truly the greatest way to convey primarily visual and auditory information

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Muirium
µ

06 Feb 2019, 21:04

Try telling us that in a vid, eh mate?
swampangel wrote:
06 Feb 2019, 20:59
I too prefer written content to video. I get frustrated when a transcript is unavailable. But despite that, I can't say I agree with you. Video is popular because many people find it more accessible than reading pages of text, for better or worse.
Same here. I’m definitely a right weirdo when it comes to how little video I watch. Even about keyboards! I just don’t like the linearity of the medium. You’re putting a lot of trust in who made the video not to waste your time, and not to labour a simple point. Almost everyone sucks at that, so I haven’t the patience for their videos.

Text, meanwhile, is the perfect medium to skim and skip. Love it!

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stratokaster

06 Feb 2019, 21:06

mattlach wrote:
06 Feb 2019, 19:59
Not sure I understand the term.
In Russia and other post-Soviet countries, the term "youthful maximalism" («юношеский максимализм») is usually used to describe a mix of misguidedness and strongly held opinions commonly found in teenagers. But judging by the rest of your reply, I was wrong...
mattlach wrote:
06 Feb 2019, 19:59
Nothing sucks more than reviews or opinion pieces in videos. You are subjected to someone else's terrible taste in music, endless videos starting with the words "hey guys..." wasted dead time for their intro and logo, a mass of video that is difficult to navigate compared to a well structured body of text, you can easily skim to the section of interest, and the incessant begging for viewers to like and/or subscribe (which I always refuse to do)

--------- snip ---------

Other than that, I wish online video content would just die a horrible death and go away. Everything, including Twitch and other such nonsense
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CBCC39C6-FDA8-41C1-AB5C-E98723A94C6F.png (79.12 KiB) Viewed 902 times
That's more like it :lol:

On a more serious note, there's video and there's video. A well-researched, well-written and well-produced video can be brief, informative, and it can even have a table of contents! (Yes, it's possible to create TOCs on YouTube, and many people do). It also very much depends on the topic. While it would be foolish to try to learn a programming language by watching videos, I found that it's the best possible medium for, say, retrocomputing stuff, where the very purpose of sharing information is to show something in action.

I prefer articles (and even books) myself, but video has one great advantage — I can watch videos while I'm doing something that requires my hands and some degree of my attention, but not all of it (like cooking, for example). I can't read while cooking, sorry.

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Muirium
µ

06 Feb 2019, 21:14

In Scots we call this “ault bastirt radge” and it’s exactly the same! Raging and fuming, impotently at the sky and state alike. Young bastards tend to be radge in more practical ways than their cantankerous elders.
Spoiler:
Image

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swampangel

06 Feb 2019, 21:22

Muirium wrote:
06 Feb 2019, 21:04
Same here. I’m definitely a right weirdo when it comes to how little video I watch. Even about keyboards! I just don’t like the linearity of the medium. You’re putting a lot of trust in who made the video not to waste your time, and not to labour a simple point. Almost everyone sucks at that, so I haven’t the patience for their videos.

Text, meanwhile, is the perfect medium to skim and skip. Love it!
I do truly appreciate that youtube and many others now offer a speed setting. Videos unbearable to me at normal speed are often pleasantly zippy at 1.5x.

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mattlach

06 Feb 2019, 21:27

Since we are already so hopelessly off topic, here are my YouTube viewing stats:
Screenshot_20190206-150927~2.png
Screenshot_20190206-150927~2.png (40.26 KiB) Viewed 866 times
Last week was higher than average at a whopping 17 minutes!

My typical YouTube viewing average rounds down to 0 minutes a day :p

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mattlach

06 Feb 2019, 21:28

swampangel wrote:
06 Feb 2019, 21:22
I do truly appreciate that youtube and many others now offer a speed setting. Videos unbearable to me at normal speed are often pleasantly zippy at 1.5x.
I find this feature to be an absolute necessity when listening to most of these bloviators speak :p

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mattlach

06 Feb 2019, 21:36

Darkshado wrote:
06 Feb 2019, 08:03
The project itself already has flippers and springs set aside.

For the ping on the Model Fs (or M for that matter), you could always try a "floss mod" which removes a lot of that without affecting feel. Plus it's easily reversible if you don't like it.
The project did have some set aside, but with the popularity of it, it sounds like from the last couple of pages that there are nowhere near enough.

With many XT boards starting to sell for between $125 and $200 (I guess they are collector's items now) and the other big and rarer Model F's going for well above $200, there is concern that many more People want in than can get the parts. At least affordably.

Some have even been talking about trying to buy springs flippers and barrels from Ellipse and his new manufacture project, but he reporter wants $1 per spring/flipper set + $1 per barrel, and won't even be ready to deliver for a couple of years...
Last edited by mattlach on 06 Feb 2019, 22:14, edited 1 time in total.

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subcat

06 Feb 2019, 21:36

Muirium wrote:
06 Feb 2019, 21:14
In Scots we call this “ault bastirt radge” and it’s exactly the same! Raging and fuming, impotently at the sky and state alike. Young bastards tend to be radge in more practical ways than their cantankerous elders.
Spoiler:
Image
everywhere else it's called 'senility'

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Muirium
µ

06 Feb 2019, 21:47

Everywhere else, auld bastards aren’t as likely to throw a good punch!


Re: MF
I’ve been warning about the required parts issue on the thread. Lot Lizard was asking whether there was significantly more interest now. Perhaps. But significantly improved access to F components? Surely not.

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subcat

06 Feb 2019, 21:53

Muirium wrote:
06 Feb 2019, 21:47
Everywhere else, auld bastards aren’t as likely to throw a good punch!
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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mattlach

06 Feb 2019, 23:14

Wodan wrote:
06 Feb 2019, 16:25
I can‘t take ModelM praise seriously any more. You‘re either a troll or a noob if you claim the Model M is good for anything other than filling material when pouring a concrete foundation.
It almost sounds to me like you are the one who is trolling :p

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I I could say I feel the same way about anything Cherry MX, the two models of Alps I've tried (vintage black and salmon) and pretty much any linear switch design, but the truth is I realize different people like different things. That's why they make chocolate and vanilla ice cream.

I can type much faster, and more accurately and I am happier doing so on a Model M than on any other keyboard I've ever tried. I'm open to new experiences and want to try other things (hoping I find a switch I love as much as the Model M while also offered in a more modern keyboard with more modern features) but it just hasn't happened yet.

I have test typed on both vintage beamsprings and Model F's and both of those felt AMAZING, but at the same time their quirky layouts ruined them for me. I also wasn't thrilled with their communist beige/grey color schemes.

So, from a pure switch perspective, I have felt switches I like more than a Model M, but those are the only two. For my preference, with those two exceptions I have never typed on any other switch I liked better than the Model M type buckling spring.

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fohat
Elder Messenger

06 Feb 2019, 23:27

What does "lost R" mean?

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mattlach

06 Feb 2019, 23:49

fohat wrote:
06 Feb 2019, 23:27
What does "lost R" mean?
lost R.jpg
lost R.jpg (251.77 KiB) Viewed 755 times

:p

More seriously though, I think it was a reference to the shirt show below (and what it becomes when you lose the R) :p
depletedvespene wrote:
06 Feb 2019, 18:18
What a shirt show!

shirt-show.jpg

While all y'all fight (and make efforts to lose an R), I'll keep on typing on my Model M keyboard. Actually, no... I'm at the office, so I'm using a WASD TKL with lubed Ergo Clears. Whatever.

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Hypersphere

07 Feb 2019, 00:33

The keyboard obsession hobby is not for the faint of heart wallet.

In my own case, my best typing speed and accuracy are on my RF R2 PFU TKL with all-45g Topre silenced switches and my HHKB Pro 2 with all-45g silenced and lubed Topre switches.

Nevertheless, I enjoy variety, and I swap out keyboards at seemingly random times. My collection includes 60, 80 and 100% form factors (and a few in-between 60 and 80% along with XT form factors), various layouts, but remapped close to HHKB when possible, and quite a variety of switches (Cherry brown and green; vintage Cherry black; Gateron mx yellow; Alps SKCM brown, black, white, blue; Alps SKCC green; Alps SKCL green and yellow; IBM Model M; IBM Model F; and various terminal boards not yet converted to work with modern computers. There's something to like about each of them.

stalepie

10 Feb 2019, 20:37

I would be interested to see if people can tell what switches and keyboards they are typing on while blindfolded, or also with some noise canceling headphones on, just by feel. (A friend could swap out keyboards). A lot of it would be revealed by the size and shape and other things of that board, but less obvious with trendy 60% boards that can swap out switches and caps, and a lot of keyboards have a similar Model M arrangement but have different kinds of switches.

samuelcable

10 Feb 2019, 20:38

stalepie wrote:
10 Feb 2019, 20:37
I would be interested to see if people can tell what switches and keyboards they are typing on while blindfolded, or also with some noise canceling headphones on, just by feel. (A friend could swap out keyboards). A lot of it would be revealed by the size and shape and other things of that board, but less obvious with trendy 60% boards that can swap out switches and caps, and a lot of keyboards have a similar Model M arrangement but have different kinds of switches.
that test would instantly make all clickies better/usable :lol:

sh1

14 Feb 2019, 06:40

Someone expressed an issue with floss modding an F. Is it because it really does affect the feel a bit? Was curious about trying it, but actually I've been using this F for a while and often quite enjoy the sound.
Model F.jpg
Model F.jpg (1.83 MiB) Viewed 600 times
(As to the Chyrosran22 YouTube channel -- getting to see and hear his amazing collection and expertise, I love those videos. And very much look forward to them.)

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Chyros

14 Feb 2019, 11:58

Oof, what a slick keyboard :D .

Glad you enjoy the video mate :) .

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fohat
Elder Messenger

14 Feb 2019, 13:26

The floss has negligible effect on the feel but takes away most of the high-pitched overtones.

I use the extremely fluffy Oral B floss that has little mass or stiffness. Also, the insert needs to be more than half the height of the spring (because it buckles in the middle) but there is a difference in going 2/3 of the way up and all the way.

Some people have used heavier and thicker filaments such as string which may have more impact.

And, of course, they can be removed at any time.

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mattlach

14 Feb 2019, 17:05

sh1 wrote:
14 Feb 2019, 06:40
Someone expressed an issue with floss modding an F. Is it because it really does affect the feel a bit? Was curious about trying it, but actually I've been using this F for a while and often quite enjoy the sound.

Model F.jpg

(As to the Chyrosran22 YouTube channel -- getting to see and hear his amazing collection and expertise, I love those videos. And very much look forward to them.)
Nice,

I've never seen those in black before. Is that a custom mod, or did IBM actually make them that way?

I don't think I could live without the standard arrow keys though. I use those all the time.

sh1

14 Feb 2019, 21:04

Thank you, Chyros and fohat! :)

sh1

14 Feb 2019, 21:23

mattlach wrote:
14 Feb 2019, 17:05
sh1 wrote:
14 Feb 2019, 06:40
Someone expressed an issue with floss modding an F. Is it because it really does affect the feel a bit? Was curious about trying it, but actually I've been using this F for a while and often quite enjoy the sound.

Model F.jpg

(As to the Chyrosran22 YouTube channel -- getting to see and hear his amazing collection and expertise, I love those videos. And very much look forward to them.)
Nice,

I've never seen those in black before. Is that a custom mod, or did IBM actually make them that way?

I don't think I could live without the standard arrow keys though. I use those all the time.
Thank you. It was originally painted beige. Repainted the top black. Always have liked that color combination.

Mostly I use the navigation shared with the number pad, but occasionally enjoy it on the left hand side.

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Hypersphere

14 Feb 2019, 23:39

@sh1: Like you, I prefer dark keyboard cases. I've painted some of my beige cases black or burgundy red. I also tend to replace spacebars and modifiers with black ones. For alphas, I use white or, if I can find them, blue.

I prefer the sound and feel of my XT to my AT, but I don't like the layout of either one. Looking forward to getting an Ellipse F62.

I've floss-modded my XT. It attenuated the ping without noticeably affecting the click or feel.

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Darkshado

15 Feb 2019, 05:00

mattlach wrote:
14 Feb 2019, 17:05
I don't think I could live without the standard arrow keys though. I use those all the time.
For what it's worth you could transform that numpad into an arrow cluster: the zero can be split in two. The F AT can also be ANSI or ISO modded if you don't like the BAE. There's also two pads for the usual modern Alt keys, getting to them does require some work on the plate, a Model M spacebar and fashioning stabilizers. Finish off with a TMK-based converter.

sh1

20 Feb 2019, 03:32

Hypersphere wrote:
14 Feb 2019, 23:39
@sh1: Like you, I prefer dark keyboard cases. I've painted some of my beige cases black or burgundy red. I also tend to replace spacebars and modifiers with black ones. For alphas, I use white or, if I can find them, blue.

I prefer the sound and feel of my XT to my AT, but I don't like the layout of either one. Looking forward to getting an Ellipse F62.

I've floss-modded my XT. It attenuated the ping without noticeably affecting the click or feel.
Thank you. Maybe I'll give it a go. Perhaps try it on a key or two for fun.

I generally get on well with the AT layout. Only thing was the control key placement tripping me up when I tried to use other boards.

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Wingklip

20 Feb 2019, 10:13

ANSI xt when

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