Got a Cherry G86, who knows anything about this?

dharmi

21 Jun 2019, 14:38

I just got my hands on a Cherry G86, supposedly one of the better rubber domes. It's got a little touchpad on the bottom right.

It actually does not feel like a membrane keyboard. More like a Cherry MX red/black cross. Although it isn't fantastically tactile, it doesn't have the unpleasant feel of some membrane boards.

I'm thinking of taking apart the keyboard and cleaning the keycaps, then reprogramming it and moving the keycaps around.

But I haven't seen much documentation online. Can I even pull out the keycaps without damaging the keyboard?

Please share whatever info or pictures you have of the inside of a Cherry G86! For now I'm a bit afraid of taking the keyboard apart due to inexperience.

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Wodan
ISO Advocate

21 Jun 2019, 14:42

Kill it with fire

Fkazim

21 Jun 2019, 16:42

Not a huge fan of Cherry but the first thing I would say is buy a keycap puller as this will enable keycaps to be removed without damaging the key cap or the switch itself. From there it is just inspecting the keyboard for screws locking slips as it is cherry and their keyboards are low quality also as this is the case you might want invest in a plastic pry tool. Then work your way around the keyboard popping all the clips removing all the screws etc... and see how it goes from there.

Hope that helps.

samuelcable

21 Jun 2019, 16:45

Fkazim wrote:
21 Jun 2019, 16:42
Not a huge fan of Cherry
i swear everyone on this site that doesnt like cherry declares this before posting

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Dingster

21 Jun 2019, 17:00

samuelcable wrote:
21 Jun 2019, 16:45
Fkazim wrote:
21 Jun 2019, 16:42
Not a huge fan of Cherry
i swear everyone on this site that doesnt like cherry declares this before posting
Bro cherry is so bad, look at the superior in every way IBM BEAMSPRING!!!1!!

Fkazim

21 Jun 2019, 17:36

Dingster wrote:
21 Jun 2019, 17:00
samuelcable wrote:
21 Jun 2019, 16:45
Fkazim wrote:
21 Jun 2019, 16:42
Not a huge fan of Cherry
i swear everyone on this site that doesnt like cherry declares this before posting
Bro cherry is so bad, look at the superior in every way IBM BEAMSPRING!!!1!!
Or the IBM Model F XT, Model F AT, Model F122, M122 basically anything Keyboard IBM is better than Cherry LOL!

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kbdfr
The Tiproman

22 Jun 2019, 08:36

Fkazim wrote:
21 Jun 2019, 17:36
Dingster wrote:
21 Jun 2019, 17:00
samuelcable wrote:
21 Jun 2019, 16:45


i swear everyone on this site that doesnt like cherry declares this before posting
Bro cherry is so bad, look at the superior in every way IBM BEAMSPRING!!!1!!
Or the IBM Model F XT, Model F AT, Model F122, M122 basically anything Keyboard IBM is better than Cherry LOL!
Sure.
Even if I can't remember ever having had to bolt mod any Cherry keyboard because it stopped working properly.
Or ever having had to open a Cherry keyboard at all - and found out it required a tool not available everywhere.
But well, apparently Cherry bashing has now become mainstream and IBM is considered superior without further thinking.

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Coco

22 Jun 2019, 08:44

kbdfr wrote:
22 Jun 2019, 08:36
Fkazim wrote:
21 Jun 2019, 17:36
Dingster wrote:
21 Jun 2019, 17:00

Bro cherry is so bad, look at the superior in every way IBM BEAMSPRING!!!1!!
Or the IBM Model F XT, Model F AT, Model F122, M122 basically anything Keyboard IBM is better than Cherry LOL!
Sure.
Even if I can't remember ever having had to bolt mod any Cherry keyboard because it stopped working properly.
Or ever having had to open a Cherry keyboard at all - and found out it required a tool not available everywhere.
But well, apparently Cherry bashing has now become mainstream and IBM is considered superior without further thinking.
I'm sure it's just playful banter. Or it's subjective and perhaps biased, but really, the only downfall of the IBM keyboards especially the Model M's are the rivets which can be fixed with a bolt/screw mod.

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hansichen

22 Jun 2019, 11:04

Coco wrote:
22 Jun 2019, 08:44
kbdfr wrote:
22 Jun 2019, 08:36
Fkazim wrote:
21 Jun 2019, 17:36


Or the IBM Model F XT, Model F AT, Model F122, M122 basically anything Keyboard IBM is better than Cherry LOL!
Sure.
Even if I can't remember ever having had to bolt mod any Cherry keyboard because it stopped working properly.
Or ever having had to open a Cherry keyboard at all - and found out it required a tool not available everywhere.
But well, apparently Cherry bashing has now become mainstream and IBM is considered superior without further thinking.
I'm sure it's just playful banter. Or it's subjective and perhaps biased, but really, the only downfall of the IBM keyboards especially the Model M's are the rivets which can be fixed with a bolt/screw mod.
And the foam (Model F and Beamspring) which gets worse over the years and needs to be replaced.

Wazrach

22 Jun 2019, 11:11

I know the Cherry v Alps/ IBM debates will never end, but it's pointless trying to tell people what they should and shouldn't like. I just dislike the narrow-minded people who swear by gaming keyboards and the marketing bullshit they put out. I had a friend who was convinced his HyperX Alloy was the pinnacle of build quality and that those "old spring switches" were shit.

Wazrach

22 Jun 2019, 11:23

Saying that, I do have a thing for Razer Blackwidow V2's case and font. I know it's shit and not pretty, but I still like it for some reason. I guess that's what all of this is about - you don't need to have a reason to like things.

Fkazim

22 Jun 2019, 15:10

kbdfr wrote:
22 Jun 2019, 08:36
Fkazim wrote:
21 Jun 2019, 17:36
Dingster wrote:
21 Jun 2019, 17:00

Bro cherry is so bad, look at the superior in every way IBM BEAMSPRING!!!1!!
Or the IBM Model F XT, Model F AT, Model F122, M122 basically anything Keyboard IBM is better than Cherry LOL!
Sure.
Even if I can't remember ever having had to bolt mod any Cherry keyboard because it stopped working properly.
Or ever having had to open a Cherry keyboard at all - and found out it required a tool not available everywhere.
But well, apparently Cherry bashing has now become mainstream and IBM is considered superior without further thinking.
I'm not Cherry bashing I have used both Cherry and IBM keyboards and I can say IBM Keyboards are much more repairable, durable, and much better feel IMO. I used to have a Cherry MX red keyboard and then I made the switch to a Model M as I wanted something clicky side note I did try my friends Cherry MX Blue Keyboard and the sound is super ANNOYING! thats why I prefer IBM not just because I hate Cherry for the sake of it.

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Dingster

22 Jun 2019, 17:20

Man some of you really seem to have missed the sarcasm in my reply :lol:

(Typing on my G80-1000 rn too)

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abrahamstechnology

22 Jun 2019, 20:20

I like the cubic POM caps on the G86s. Too bad they aren't Cherry mount.

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kbdfr
The Tiproman

22 Jun 2019, 20:36

Fkazim wrote:
22 Jun 2019, 15:10
[…] IBM Keyboards are much more repairable […]
None of my Cherry keyboards ever needed any repair.

Fkazim

22 Jun 2019, 22:05

kbdfr wrote:
22 Jun 2019, 20:36
Fkazim wrote:
22 Jun 2019, 15:10
[…] IBM Keyboards are much more repairable […]
None of my Cherry keyboards ever needed any repair.
I have seen broken Cherry switches before or Cherry switches that output 2 characters when pressed and the only way to solve this problem was to just buy a new switch but that's just my experience.

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zrrion

22 Jun 2019, 22:49

kbdfr wrote:
22 Jun 2019, 08:36
Sure.
Even if I can't remember ever having had to bolt mod any Cherry keyboard because it stopped working properly.
Or ever having had to open a Cherry keyboard at all - and found out it required a tool not available everywhere.
But well, apparently Cherry bashing has now become mainstream and IBM is considered superior without further thinking.
I find it interesting that when we talk about IBM vs Cherry, we always compare the best Cherry switch against the worst IBM switch. Lets compare MY, the worst cherry switch against membrane buckling springs, the worst IBM switch.
  • You might need "a tool not available everywhere" (I already had one before I even got into keyboards, but whatever) to open an M for repair, but no one even likes MY enough to do any repairs.
  • The only thing anyone uses MY for is to harvest caps for cherries best switch.
  • I can't remember ever having had to bolt mod any Cherry IBM keyboard because it stopped working properly. all of the Ms I've owned have had intact rivits and I since I've never had a broken Cherry IBM keyboard it must mean that they are better.
Well what about the second best Cherry switch Vs the second best IBM switch?
  • M7 is a linear switch that tend to be found in nicely build boards, but they bind like crazy if they get even a little dirty.
  • If you though an M was hard to open, M7 is glued shut, so you can either take a knife to the switch and risk damaging it in the process or you can just replace them.
  • They might be great if coke-lubed but you can't open them to do that anyway so there is still no solution to the binding issue, replacement switches in good shape aren't the easiest to get ahold of, and once you do just wait and they'll get back to binding eventually.
  • Captivate buckling springs are a more refined version of the model M that is easier to open and has N key rollover.
  • the foam does die but there are conflicting reports on whether that is necessary. At either rate, replace it with art foam that doesn't degrade and you're fine.
  • opening these is easy but closing the barrel assembly sucks. No way around that, it is way easier to reassemble an M7 board.
And finally, the best of both MX and Beamspring
  • Beamsprings are the same price as a used car
  • MX is in production today at keyboard prices
  • Beamspring feels way better
  • MX is in production today at keyboard prices
  • build quality of a beamer is way better than a PCB mount, clipped together MX board
  • MX is in production today at keyboard prices
MX actually wins against beamers, but that is more a function of modern beamer prices, back when they weren't at meme prices they would have won but 1200USD or more for a bread and butter beamer is ridiculous.

Cherry has poor build quality in modern boards (the old ones are nice, and the WYSE PCE is one of my favorite chassis, so it is possible to put MX in a good board, cherry just doesn't seem to care about doing that) and the tactiles and clickies are a joke. Vintage blacks are a little heavy for me, but they are smooth and I actually really like them as far as linears go. IBM has great build quality to the point where they will sacrifice a bit of serviceability, and they don't have tactiles or linears at all, but overall I think they still win. The M and the F were both good enough to set the standards for layouts during their times in a way that basically no one except maybe DEC can really claim to have done.

Fkazim

23 Jun 2019, 00:21

zrrion wrote:
22 Jun 2019, 22:49
kbdfr wrote:
22 Jun 2019, 08:36
Sure.
Even if I can't remember ever having had to bolt mod any Cherry keyboard because it stopped working properly.
Or ever having had to open a Cherry keyboard at all - and found out it required a tool not available everywhere.
But well, apparently Cherry bashing has now become mainstream and IBM is considered superior without further thinking.
I find it interesting that when we talk about IBM vs Cherry, we always compare the best Cherry switch against the worst IBM switch. Lets compare MY, the worst cherry switch against membrane buckling springs, the worst IBM switch.
  • You might need "a tool not available everywhere" (I already had one before I even got into keyboards, but whatever) to open an M for repair, but no one even likes MY enough to do any repairs.
  • The only thing anyone uses MY for is to harvest caps for cherries best switch.
  • I can't remember ever having had to bolt mod any Cherry IBM keyboard because it stopped working properly. all of the Ms I've owned have had intact rivits and I since I've never had a broken Cherry IBM keyboard it must mean that they are better.
Well what about the second best Cherry switch Vs the second best IBM switch?
  • M7 is a linear switch that tend to be found in nicely build boards, but they bind like crazy if they get even a little dirty.
  • If you though an M was hard to open, M7 is glued shut, so you can either take a knife to the switch and risk damaging it in the process or you can just replace them.
  • They might be great if coke-lubed but you can't open them to do that anyway so there is still no solution to the binding issue, replacement switches in good shape aren't the easiest to get ahold of, and once you do just wait and they'll get back to binding eventually.
  • Captivate buckling springs are a more refined version of the model M that is easier to open and has N key rollover.
  • the foam does die but there are conflicting reports on whether that is necessary. At either rate, replace it with art foam that doesn't degrade and you're fine.
  • opening these is easy but closing the barrel assembly sucks. No way around that, it is way easier to reassemble an M7 board.
And finally, the best of both MX and Beamspring
  • Beamsprings are the same price as a used car
  • MX is in production today at keyboard prices
  • Beamspring feels way better
  • MX is in production today at keyboard prices
  • build quality of a beamer is way better than a PCB mount, clipped together MX board
  • MX is in production today at keyboard prices
MX actually wins against beamers, but that is more a function of modern beamer prices, back when they weren't at meme prices they would have won but 1200USD or more for a bread and butter beamer is ridiculous.

Cherry has poor build quality in modern boards (the old ones are nice, and the WYSE PCE is one of my favorite chassis, so it is possible to put MX in a good board, cherry just doesn't seem to care about doing that) and the tactiles and clickies are a joke. Vintage blacks are a little heavy for me, but they are smooth and I actually really like them as far as linears go. IBM has great build quality to the point where they will sacrifice a bit of serviceability, and they don't have tactiles or linears at all, but overall I think they still win. The M and the F were both good enough to set the standards for layouts during their times in a way that basically no one except maybe DEC can really claim to have done.
OK lets forget about IBM for a minute and let's compare HiTek 725 AKA space invader switches.

First off comparing Cherry MX blue switches Vs clicky black space invaders as the clicky space invaders are pretty close to feel to Cherry MX blues. Space invaders definitely feel more refined and the click sound is much more full in my opinion not sure if this debate is fixed on only IBM and Cherry but thought I would bring up space invaders up anyways.

Wazrach

23 Jun 2019, 01:14

This thread wasn't supposed to be about Cherry v everything else, it was about a specific board that someone inexperienced wanted help with. I don't think immediately lecturing the OP about how "Cherry is inferior to everything else" is really going to help them get the answer they are looking for.

samuelcable

23 Jun 2019, 01:19

Wazrach wrote:
23 Jun 2019, 01:14
This thread wasn't supposed to be about Cherry v everything else, it was about a specific board that someone inexperienced wanted help with. I don't think immediately lecturing the OP about how "Cherry is inferior to everything else" is really going to help them get the answer they are looking for.
Yeah, my joke about how everyone everyone states that they dislike cherry before posting didn't mean to cause all of this, sorry guys :oops:

Fkazim

23 Jun 2019, 01:27

Yeah that's true I did give advice anyways first.

To add to that I guess the construction will be similar to the Cherry G80-3000. In that case you got to unhook the clips being careful not to snap the clips off. In terms of screws there are non so don't worry about those if indeed the construction is similar to a G80-3000 but I don't know 100% if it is.
Last edited by Fkazim on 23 Jun 2019, 01:32, edited 1 time in total.

Wazrach

23 Jun 2019, 01:32

samuelcable wrote:
23 Jun 2019, 01:19
Wazrach wrote:
23 Jun 2019, 01:14
This thread wasn't supposed to be about Cherry v everything else, it was about a specific board that someone inexperienced wanted help with. I don't think immediately lecturing the OP about how "Cherry is inferior to everything else" is really going to help them get the answer they are looking for.
Yeah, my joke about how everyone everyone states that they dislike cherry before posting didn't mean to cause all of this, sorry guys :oops:
from what I can see, you didn't start it. O.O

Wazrach

23 Jun 2019, 01:33

I'm being kind of joking about it as well, I don't mean to be all serious. I just think it's kind of funny how someone's like "yeah how do I take the keycaps off this Cherry keyboard?" and he gets "B E A M S P R I N G S"

Fkazim

23 Jun 2019, 01:34

Wodan wrote:
21 Jun 2019, 14:42
Kill it with fire
When I first looked at this thread someone was already spitting fire about Cherry literally lol.

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kbdfr
The Tiproman

23 Jun 2019, 08:20

For further information, to open a G80-3000 you don't need any tools other than your fingers.
Just, as Fkazim said above, unhook the 4 big clips at the top and then carefully flip the bottom shell open, which will unhook the small bottom clips.

Concerning my (usual) rant when people casually denigrate Cherry keyboards,
obviously it's quite simple to trigger an answer from me :mrgreen:

dharmi

23 Jun 2019, 13:58

Wazrach wrote:
23 Jun 2019, 01:14
This thread wasn't supposed to be about Cherry v everything else, it was about a specific board that someone inexperienced wanted help with. I don't think immediately lecturing the OP about how "Cherry is inferior to everything else" is really going to help them get the answer they are looking for.
Wazrach wrote to me and he was quite nice, although he could only give vague advice.

I don't want to start prying up the keycaps on this keyboard only to discover that they can't be put back. That's why I am asking here for photos, advice, etc.

Can I safely take this keyboard apart? Can I pull off the keycaps without destroying anything?

Is there anything inside that would be totally messed up if I open it and clean it?

I'm basically looking for useful advice on something I have at hand. What's the point of telling me that IBM Beam Spring keyboard is the best in the universe? Can you sell me a fully working, USB, IBM Beam Spring at a reasonable (maybe $100, $200 max shipped) price? If you can't, what's the point of theoretical distractions? I can also say that superconducting fluid something is the best for cooling a computer, but if a normal person can't buy and install on his daily driver desktop, you're still stuck with $10 and $15 fans from Amazon.

dharmi

23 Jun 2019, 14:02

kbdfr wrote:
23 Jun 2019, 08:20
For further information, to open a G80-3000 you don't need any tools other than your fingers.
Just, as Fkazim said above, unhook the 4 big clips at the top and then carefully flip the bottom shell open, which will unhook the small bottom clips.

Concerning my (usual) rant when people casually denigrate Cherry keyboards,
obviously it's quite simple to trigger an answer from me :mrgreen:
kbdfr, this is a G86 so the switches are definitely different from G80. Is it safe to pry off the keycaps just with the standard wire keypull that you can get from Ducky? I am thinking of cleaning the keycaps, vacuuming underneath the membrane, reprogramming and then moving the keycaps around because I don't like where the arrow keys are.

User avatar
kbdfr
The Tiproman

23 Jun 2019, 16:21

Sorry dharmi, I was just answering the following post without bothering this time, as I most do, to quote it:
Fkazim wrote:
23 Jun 2019, 01:27
[…] I guess the construction will be similar to the Cherry G80-3000. In that case you got to unhook the clips […]being careful not to snap the clips off. In terms of screws there are non so don't worry about those if indeed the construction is similar to a G80-3000 but I don't know 100% if it is.
I have never held a G86 in my hands so I know neither how to open it nor whether the caps can be pulled.

But if you want a view of the inside of a G86, you can have a look there
and even see how you could clean the inside :lol:

User avatar
kbdfr
The Tiproman

23 Jun 2019, 16:31

Well, obviouly you can remove the caps.
Have a look at this video, timecode 2:50:

dharmi

23 Jun 2019, 16:40

kbdfr wrote:
23 Jun 2019, 16:31
Well, obviouly you can remove the caps.
Just awesome my friend, just awesome. That's pretty all I need to know to start pulling off keycaps now!

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