Unicomp key cap finishing is terrible

glossywhite

16 Mar 2012, 18:20

Swede wrote:Glossy, I gave you an advise last time.

You did not follow that simple advise. I told you this would happen if you didn't follow it.

You do realise you are digging your grave on this forum?
:lol:

Hey, I was banned then unbanned without explanation - someone must love me here ;) LOL

rodtang

16 Mar 2012, 19:11

I'd like to see the much better key caps you've made glossy, I bet they are much better than the ones Unicomp make.

glossywhite

16 Mar 2012, 19:21

:lol: :lol: :lol:
rodtang wrote:I'd like to see the much better key caps you've made glossy, I bet they are much better than the ones Unicomp make.

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Charlie_Brown_MX

16 Mar 2012, 19:48

Swede wrote:You do realise you are digging your grave on this forum?
Not fast enough, sadly.

JBert

16 Mar 2012, 20:03

First of all, you are right, there is something wrong with your keycaps.
glossywhite wrote:1/ This keyboard is £90, and I do not find it at all unreasonable to expect a cosmetically well finished product for £90.
2/ The Apple keyboards, both the previous and current generation, £20 and £40 respectively, are both utterly flawless, and finished beautifully; no mould marks. The Cherry G80-3000 I have is £58, and finished very well; no mould marks.

I hardly consider £90 to be a "cheap" keyboard. Unicomp apologists are to be expected on a forum where the general consensus is that the Model M is the keyboard of choice, but even you cannot reasonably and logically argue that shoddy finish like this is acceptable, because I didn't pay ~£3,000 and get the PC that originally came with the IBM Model M, in order to justify the original Model M finish quality?
Your comparison doesn't hold. The Unicomp is a niche product whereas Apple keyboards sells peripherals by the thousands. It thus pays for Apple to make perfectly finished keyboards and still make a profit thanks to the large volumes of sold products.
glossywhite wrote:I'm sure you all spend hundreds on keyboards and parts, being keyboard enthusiasts, but let's forget that and put it to one side for the moment, and get back to reality... this is still costing people NINETY POUNDS.

Someone mentioned that I could expect to pay £200 for a keyboard with acceptable cosmetic finish... so are you telling me that it costs £110 for someone to buff off the edges of a few key caps? No, you can't be - that would be ridiculous.

I really don't want to draw this out too much, but Unicomp's excuses aside, this is still NINETY POUNDS for an unfinished product, and you're still trying to justify that with outlandish logic. I'm not expecting the key caps to be gold plated, I am expecting them to be of as high a quality finish, cosmetically, as a £5 keyboard that one may purchase from Argos or PC World, and they're not, and something is worryingly wrong about this, when a company is milking the reputation of a past product, constructed to a higher standard, and yet not even bothering to ensure that the quality of the product reflects the well documented reputation it is living up to.

It's called "They don't make them like they used to", and this is surely evidence of that. They don't.

I have a biro here which cost 30p, and no mould marks.
You are right, it's £90 compared to £5 for a cheap rubber dome. However, the latter is simply a damn-cheap mass-produced keyboard which simply skews your whole perspective. They used to make tough stuff back in the day, but it cost you an arm and a leg.

Free-market principles started the race to the bottom, and China is sure pushing prices down. So Unicomp tries to follow and wears out its molds, but since they don't sell so much as the average Chinese factory, they don't seem to find it worthwile to fix their molds or employ someone to file off those marks. I guess they just had to choose: raise their price or simply try to sell it anyway and see who complains.
glossywhite wrote:Geeks, this is the real world, where real people spend real money, and many of them are NOT Unicomp apologists or keyboard geeks, and they spend their days working hard to provide money for their families, and when they spend £90 on a keyboard, they're going to look at the quality, and justifiably complain when it looks like a cheap knock-off, because of a little tidy-up job that Unicomp skimped on. It would benefit Unicomp massively to lose a few £'s per item, but tighten up the cosmetic appearance of their product so that people wouldn't feel as if they'd been fleeced.

I value this keyboard at £50, £60 maximum, in present condition, considering I have just sealed a deal for TWO IBM Model M's for £60.
I can't say how much it costs to make a Unicomp, but again, it's them who are selling a niche product and who need to keep the company running. Ask for a refund or a fix with them

Oh, and model Ms are cheap mainly because so many got in disuse, became incompatible with modern PS/2 ports or simply break of old age. They're written off, and the only thing keeping prices up is the demand of the collectors.

ripster

16 Mar 2012, 21:31

Wow. That molding crud sucks.

http://glyph.twistedmatrix.com/2006_04_01_archive.html
Unfortunately Unicomp does not do so well in that regard either. The keys appear to be made from injection-molded plastic, and the artifacts of that process are clearly visible. In this picture you can see the molding seams leaking on the "2" and "4" keys:
Image

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nathanscribe

16 Mar 2012, 21:56

Don't forget, if your argument is based partly on UK price, that these are made in the US. Unicomp don't sell them for £90, they sell them for about $80. It's the shipping, tax and import duty, plus any profit margin added by resellers, that puts them at their full UK price. Over here we pay about twice what Unicomp list them at.

Secondly, as others have said, Unicomp are not Apple - they are a much smaller concern with a smaller setup and higher production costs per item, and presumably tight margins. Be glad they're making a new buckling-spring board at all.

Also, the previous Apple keyboard were bloody rubbish, and the new ones are glorified laptop parts. I don't think there's much comparison with a buckling spring board at all, and if you're talking about cost vs quality, a few bits of flash on your caps is maybe the price you pay for twenty years of daily hammering before even one of those keys goes wrong. Just think - you get to weep over that flash every day for the next two decades. What more could one want?
Last edited by nathanscribe on 16 Mar 2012, 22:15, edited 2 times in total.

ripster

16 Mar 2012, 22:07

Good points. I'd use a Xacto knife (not sure of EU equivalent).

But I DO like the Apple Aluminum. Magnificent example of Industrial Design.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?2449 ... m-Wireless

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nathanscribe

16 Mar 2012, 22:13

It's a nice design with some stylish and interesting features, but I wouldn't want to do a lot of typing on one.

I had an iBook for about five years, and wore several keys blank, several not only blank but smoothly cratered, put a few big gouges in the spacebar and turned the textured trackpad into a skating rink, albeit a quite tiny one. I know the current keyboard should be some kind of improvement, but I doubt they'll stand up to heavy-duty use for long. It's debatable whether they're intended for that, though.
Last edited by nathanscribe on 16 Mar 2012, 22:23, edited 1 time in total.

ripster

16 Mar 2012, 22:23

Passes the RicerCar flex test. It's that milled aluminum.

glossywhite

16 Mar 2012, 23:50

nathanscribe wrote:Don't forget, if your argument is based partly on UK price, that these are made in the US. Unicomp don't sell them for £90, they sell them for about $80. It's the shipping, tax and import duty, plus any profit margin added by resellers, that puts them at their full UK price. Over here we pay about twice what Unicomp list them at.

Secondly, as others have said, Unicomp are not Apple - they are a much smaller concern with a smaller setup and higher production costs per item, and presumably tight margins. Be glad they're making a new buckling-spring board at all.

Also, the previous Apple keyboard were bloody rubbish, and the new ones are glorified laptop parts. I don't think there's much comparison with a buckling spring board at all, and if you're talking about cost vs quality, a few bits of flash on your caps is maybe the price you pay for twenty years of daily hammering before even one of those keys goes wrong. Just think - you get to weep over that flash every day for the next two decades. What more could one want?
Couldn't agree more with your points here. The Apples LOOK nice and feel nice... until you become "enlightened" eh! :D

I think I was just disappointed for the price they charge, and yes - a lot of it is tax & duty etc. The world spins on, regardless. Hardly worth losing sleep over, and I did react a little too much to it. :oops:
nathanscribe wrote:It's a nice design with some stylish and interesting features, but I wouldn't want to do a lot of typing on one.

I had an iBook for about five years, and wore several keys blank, several not only blank but smoothly cratered, put a few big gouges in the spacebar and turned the textured trackpad into a skating rink, albeit a quite tiny one. I know the current keyboard should be some kind of improvement, but I doubt they'll stand up to heavy-duty use for long. It's debatable whether they're intended for that, though.
The previous, non-unibody MacBook Pro keys were sheer trash. They were simply transparent keys, spray-painted silver with the legends as holes in the paint. I always recall thinking how much of a bad design that was, considering Apple are (apparently) "the best" (a myth, although they do make amazing machines, noone can deny this).

Image

Worn silver paint, betrays the underlying mushy dome rubbish. Come on Apple, this wasn't your finest hour (along with the Shighty Mouse ^_^)

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Jim66

17 Mar 2012, 01:59

Why are you guys letting yourselves get repeatedly trolled by glossy?

I thought that you guys had worked out that glossywhite was Ripster's new troll project? Didn't you check the IP address?

glossywhite

17 Mar 2012, 02:55

Jim66 wrote:Why are you guys letting yourselves get repeatedly trolled by glossy?

I thought that you guys had worked out that glossywhite was Ripster's new troll project? Didn't you check the IP address?
^ trolling, ironically.

Mmmbacon

17 Mar 2012, 05:00

How do you REALLY feel about Apple keyboards??

"What is it with Apple and their current mass-consumer, glued-shut, scratch-unfriendly products? This stamped out, glued shut rubber dome piffle only sells well because it has a big shiny (almost invisible!) Apple on it."

or

"The Apple keyboards, both the previous and current generation, £20 and £40 respectively, are both are utterly flawless,and finished beautifully;"

:roll: Im confoozled.

hoggy

17 Mar 2012, 08:19

Bless.

ripster

17 Mar 2012, 08:19

Getting a 64G Ipad3 AND AAPL hitting $600 (even if only for a minute) made my day!

ripster

18 Mar 2012, 03:33

Glossy - added your pic to the "Did IBM Quality Decline" thread.

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6550

glossywhite

18 Mar 2012, 04:14

ripster wrote:Glossy - added your pic to the "Did IBM Quality Decline" thread.

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6550
Rippington McRips, you're so kind :)

Thanks man!

Tycn

18 Mar 2012, 05:27

Image

I ought to start a thread about Topre keycap finishing. At twice the cost this is clearly a problem of greater magnitude.

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acfrazier
Mad Scientist

18 Mar 2012, 07:05

Please don't start such obvious troll threads. Seeing as this thread has devolved into nothing more than a mere flame war, I believe it's lived longer than it needed to.

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