Alps Lubricant FOUND!

User avatar
:Dön:

25 May 2021, 08:57

I asked them before and they said TB2581P is an oil type. Yes, it is not a spray type.
They said TB2581P was made only for Alps Electric and there is no clear successor at this time. TB2585G is the only one currently on the market and they are offering it as an alternative for plastic lubrication.
I've also contacted Alps Electric before, but they have very few records from that time. However, it seems that they were indeed using it for SKCM/CL. There was no data on when it was used, the name of the solvent, or the concentration of the dilution, but when I asked an engineer at the time, he said that at some point they used to dilute it with a solvent.

However, they said that they used Teflon before using ThreeBond lubricant. I asked them for more details, including which manufacturer they used, but they said they didn't have any data. I also asked about other keyboard switch lubricants from Alps, but I think I asked a little too many questions, and they were tight-lipped. Perhaps there is little data available.
I would like to share this with everyone and get your opinions.😉
Sorry for the long story.
That's all.
I'm using translation software to communicate with you, so if anything doesn't make sense to you, please ask. Thank you.🙏👍

User avatar
NeK

25 May 2021, 09:33

thanks for the info Don.

What do you mean by "oil type"? "Pure Oil" only contains an Oil and nothing else. A "grease type" is an Oil with a Thickener.

The specifications of TB2581P (look at my previous posts) state that it includes "Lithium Soap" as an ingredient. Lithium Soap is a Thickener, therefore it could not be "Pure Oil", because it was mixed with a Thickener. So P2581P was technically a "grease type", despite being very thin, and look like a liquid.

I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. If you could not fully understand something, ask me to explain it in more detail.

User avatar
NeK

26 May 2021, 06:46

NeK wrote:
25 May 2021, 08:46
I just found the SKF LGWM1 in 400g in a local store, which is pretty cheap at 15.70 euro incl. tax. I'm gonna grab one today as I go to work and test it asap. wish me luck :D
I just tried it and...

It sucks big time! It didn't made it any smoother, the switch is harsh, it binds and it stick-slips. No positive effect that I can see. And the smell... oh smell! It smells like a truck. This probably isn't good for our health too. Total disaster.

User avatar
NeK

26 May 2021, 12:44

andresteare wrote:
25 May 2021, 03:01
My gut is telling me that Threebond's naming nomenclature indicates the format of the solution in the las letter, S=spray, L=liquid=oil, G=grease, P=putty?paste? I don't have much faith for 2501S and 2501L, they're probably too light. So probably we're stuck with 258X variants, which are hard to find, dang it.

This is all the info I could find on 2500 series:

2500 series.pdf

BTW is there any chance of sharing your excel?
We had discussed this on the first posts of this thread but we had concluded that the nomenclature was random based on a comment from a ThreeBond employee. However, I am now convinced that this is in fact true. We guessed back then that P is for Paraffin, and voila TB2581P has "Paraffin" Oil. Everything falls into place now

User avatar
Yasu0

26 May 2021, 19:37

A naming convention sometimes begins in a rational system, then devolve as complexities enter. They end up even more confusing than a purely random name system. What you can end up with is a 90% rational system with 10% randomness tossed in to troll decoding efforts. Maybe that is why the employee said what he said.

My guy is getting that 2585 as well as a few other things to test, but it doesn't look like a rush thing unfortunately. Been a while and I am still waiting.

andresteare

27 May 2021, 02:33

Krytox 206 and 207 look like interesting candidates, PFPE (100% plastic safe) thickened with PTFE
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User avatar
NeK

27 May 2021, 05:34

Krytox is very popular in the community at large, so I would bet 206/207 has been already tried. However it doesn't hurt to do noe if someone has any and let us know. I only have the Krytox 104, which is very thin.

However, I have came to understand that the thickener plays a big role, after the failure with OKS 1110 which despite being overwhelmingly viscous, at 9500 cSt @40C (which means at 25C should measure much higher than > 20000 cSt). I wouldn't get my hopes up for Krytox.

Having tried at least 20 - widely - different lubes up untill now, still, the *only* lubes that at least worked by eliminating the binding and stick-slip is 1) the NyoGel 767A and 2) plain candle wax (!!!). The NG 767A is a behemoth titan of viscosity and tackiness, same as the... candle wax, must mean something. To me that is evidence, that a very strong film is required that sticks strongly to the surfaces, stays in place and is not penetrated by the surfaces which get pushed by the high forces of angled sliding.

The data that ThreeBond gave us for the TB2581P, states a viscosity of only ~656 cSt @40C, which has thrown me completely off. How come a lube that is that lowly viscous, can cut it with SKCM where nothing short of the strongest lubes can? On top of that, having tried the SKF lube yesterday, that is of a very similar composition (same Lithium Soap thickener and "same" heavy Mineral Oil, with Extreme Pressure additives thrown if for good measure), with the viscosity of 560 cSt @40c, which is close enough and failing miserably, has totally confused me.

The fact that TB2581P was custom made for ALPS and was never available to buy, is very weird and suspicious. And it really does not help clear the confusion. I now start to doubt how accurate the data is that ThreeBond gave us about it.

The whole thing has turned upside down. I now consider that only certain types of thickener can work and that the base oil must have some other important property, besides the plain "viscosity" measurement, that gives TB2581P the film strength necessary to sustain the brutal forces that SKCM switches are subjected to.

It must have something to do with the actual molecular structure of the oil and how strong it is. The various hints point out that they must be (very) heavy in terms of number of carbon atoms per molecule. This is because Paraffin Oil is just that, heavy hydrocarbons with more than 20 carbon atoms per molecule. And I have a feeling that the "Paraffin based mineral oil" used in TB2581P has much more heavier ones than that. Almost to the point as to be similar to candle wax (perhaps Paraffin Wax? I don't know, the terms used on the internet at large are interchangable and make little sense). NG 767A, also must be made of very heavy hydrocarbons too, which is another strong hint.

I don't know, the internet is full of misinformation and it is very difficult to gain a better understanding.

User avatar
NeK

27 May 2021, 06:28

In the face of this travesty and confusion, my reaction is to stick with what I know that actually works, i.e. NyoGel 767A, and continue try to find what makes it work and find something similar, but a bit thinner. The term "dampening grease" is what I think is the important factor here.

Kluber company, a German (again??? omg) oil manufacturer, has an impressive collection of different special lubes, including some dampening greases and I am pretty sure they will have one that works well. I am in contact with them and I will try to ask them to help. They definitely have some very interesting and products.

Where else can we find someone that is actually an expert in this field to help us? This industry is overwhelmingly confusing...

User avatar
:Dön:

31 May 2021, 01:15

It seems that TB2581L (oil type) was born as a low viscosity model from TB2581C (grease type), and then TB2581P was created. Normally, there is no special naming standard for the letters after the numbers.

andresteare

12 Jul 2021, 23:47

Any updates anyone?

User avatar
NeK

13 Jul 2021, 09:00

Nothing from me. I have been pretty busy lately but I will find some time during the summer. Having said that, I can say this:

Besides the lubricant, after various tries I have come to believe that it is more important to properly restore the housing, stem and leafs by polishing them. At least for my test switches, a careful and light polishing made the biggest difference. That restored the switch to a high degree. Very smooth, no binding, much better feeling etc. And without lube.

At that point lubing becomes much more effective essentially completing the restoration to a proper 10/10 condition.

I have to delve into details though about how I do the polishing and that will require a big post. Will do that in the future if there's interest.
Last edited by NeK on 14 Jul 2021, 00:47, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Bjerrk

13 Jul 2021, 12:41

NeK wrote:
13 Jul 2021, 09:00
I have to delve into details though about how I do the polishing and that will require a big post. Eill donsonin the future if there's interest.
Hi NeK, this sounds very interesting to me! I'd love to hear more about it at some point and try it out myself

User avatar
thefarside

13 Jul 2021, 13:26

Bjerrk wrote:
13 Jul 2021, 12:41
NeK wrote:
13 Jul 2021, 09:00
I have to delve into details though about how I do the polishing and that will require a big post. Eill donsonin the future if there's interest.
Hi NeK, this sounds very interesting to me! I'd love to hear more about it at some point and try it out myself
I would also like to hear about how you polish the stem and housing, and what lubrication is considered the most effective. I recently purchased alps switches that were lubricated with Max-Pro, and I’m curious if anyone has tried that.

User avatar
NeK

14 Jul 2021, 00:45

It's simple: I use a Dremel with a cotton felt tip. It does wonders. But it is time consuming to say the least hehe... But I actually really enjoy it.

Anyway I will make a video, I pinky promise.

andresteare

14 Jul 2021, 01:27

NeK wrote:
14 Jul 2021, 00:45
It's simple: I use a Dremel with a cotton felt tip. It does wonders. But it is time consuming to say the least hehe... But I actually really enjoy it.

Anyway I will make a video, I pinky promise.
Just bare cotton or adding polishing compound?

User avatar
Bjerrk

14 Jul 2021, 07:46

NeK wrote:
14 Jul 2021, 00:45
It's simple: I use a Dremel with a cotton felt tip. It does wonders. But it is time consuming to say the least hehe... But I actually really enjoy it.

Anyway I will make a video, I pinky promise.
Oh! I considered that yesterday when I saw your post, but didn't dare. I've managed to "melt" a dent into a keyboard chassis using that method once. Perhaps I applied too much pressure?

I also can't imagine the dremel bit being small enough to polish the rails in the housing etc? Anyway, looking forward to hearing all about it :-D

User avatar
NeK

14 Jul 2021, 09:07

andresteare wrote:
14 Jul 2021, 01:27
NeK wrote:
14 Jul 2021, 00:45
It's simple: I use a Dremel with a cotton felt tip. It does wonders. But it is time consuming to say the least hehe... But I actually really enjoy it.

Anyway I will make a video, I pinky promise.
Just bare cotton or adding polishing compound?
No compound! Not at all because the plastics are very delicate. And I am talking about only 1st gen pine versions. The next generation stem plastic, is much more delicate and it will actually melt from the friction pretty easily, but those are already smoother and much easier to polish. Just use very low RPMs and ofcourse no pressure! However, the 1st gen are like stones.

Of course we are talking about very small cotton felt tips and low rotary speeds e.g. 10krpm
Last edited by NeK on 14 Jul 2021, 10:36, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Chyros

14 Jul 2021, 09:28

Excellent work on finding out the definitive lubricants they used! :D

I've tried a wide amount of lubes on Alps switches before, including lithium soap ones, silicon oil, krytox, and a whole bunch of others. They didn't help much, or actually made it actively worse.
However, I have NOT tried any with wax in them. Wax also seems like a much more logical possibility given the texture of the lubricant found in old Alps switches; it doesn't look at all like a silicone or lithium grease to me. I may have to try to dissolve some wax in LPE and seeing if I can coat some Alps sliders with it. Bit of a hack job, but better than nothing, I guess.

To clear up some confusion regarding mineral oil types and PAO that people are having; you're all discussing hydrocarbons, but they are not the same, just like methane and graphite are not the same. PAOs will give highly branched materials for example, while mineral oils comprise a variety of straight and branched alkanes as well as cyclics. There is a reason that there are so many formulations of lubricants; it takes a large amount of optimisation, mixing and experimentation of achieve best results.

User avatar
Bjerrk

14 Jul 2021, 09:33

Chyros wrote:
14 Jul 2021, 09:28
you're all discussing hydrocarbons, but they are not the same, just like methane and graphite are not the same.
Well, perhaps not just like that, given that one doesn't even contain hydrogen ;)

User avatar
NeK

14 Jul 2021, 10:32

Chyros wrote:
14 Jul 2021, 09:28
Excellent work on finding out the definitive lubricants they used! :D
For my part: hey man thanks, it's good hearing it from you :)
However, I have NOT tried any with wax in them. Wax also seems like a much more logical possibility given the texture of the lubricant found in old Alps switches; it doesn't look at all like a silicone or lithium grease to me. I may have to try to dissolve some wax in LPE and seeing if I can coat some Alps sliders with it. Bit of a hack job, but better than nothing, I guess.
So, you are saying that the "paraffin based mineral oil" that Threebond states, is actually a specific hydrocarbon "type"? That is wax-like?
I am not sure (I don't have the knowledge) but you are probably right, because when I got a little crazy and tried out some plain candle wax (check it out, it's some posts back), it did turn out to have a very similar feeling like the OG lube. :? :lol:

The official stated ingredients for the OG are these:

Main ingredients:
  • Paraffin based mineral oil
  • Lithium soap
  • Petroleum solvents
Now, if I am not mistaken, this means that the lube was a Lithium lube (thickener) with Paraffin based mineral oil (which we talk about). I have no idea what the petroleum solvents mean. Never heard of that before in a lube, maybe it is a translation issue? And they really meant something different, like "extra additives", as many lubes have (e.g., extreme pressure additives like PTFE or solid lubricants etc).

So, it definitely is not a Silicon(e) (thickener), but why do you think it is not a Lithium grease also? That confused me a bit to be honest, because Lithium Soap is listed as an ingredient and AFAIK pretty much there is no other use for Lithium Soap except as thickener for greases.

Anyway, to summarize, we should try to look for a lube that has Paraffin based mineral oil as base oil, right? And that high refined mineral oil or PAOs are not necessarily the same as Paraffin oil. Correct?

I'm glad that someone with a great knowledge about chems finally is here! Let's crack this mofo! :D

User avatar
NeK

14 Jul 2021, 10:45

NeK wrote:
14 Jul 2021, 09:07
No compound! Not at all because the plastics are very delicate. And I am talking about only 1st gen pine versions. The next generation stem plastic, is much more delicate and it will actually melt from the friction pretty easily, but those are already smoother and much easier to polish. Just use very low RPMs and ofcourse no pressure! However, the 1st gen are like stones.

Of course we are talking about very small cotton felt tips and low rotary speeds e.g. 10krpm
So here is what I use:

Dremel 2050-15 Stylo+
dremel-stylo.jpg
dremel-stylo.jpg (16.49 KiB) Viewed 5018 times
https://us.dremel.com/en_US/products/-/ ... craft-tool

Dremel 414 Felt Polishing Wheel
dremel-414-felt-tip.png
dremel-414-felt-tip.png (429.03 KiB) Viewed 5018 times
https://us.dremel.com/en_US/products/-/ ... hing-wheel

Dremel Stylo is the best (quality wise) but I'm pretty sure *any* rotary tool can do the job. The hard thing to find is the felt tips that must be the ones that I list. Probably there are other brands too but I haven't tried them, they must be good quality cotton felt, so I only recommend what I know that works. ;)

User avatar
Chyros

14 Jul 2021, 17:02

Bjerrk wrote:
14 Jul 2021, 09:33
Chyros wrote:
14 Jul 2021, 09:28
you're all discussing hydrocarbons, but they are not the same, just like methane and graphite are not the same.
Well, perhaps not just like that, given that one doesn't even contain hydrogen ;)
Well it does, just at the edges :p . Methane and graphite are basically max-H versus min-H carbon. But formally the formula for graphite is just C, that's true.
NeK wrote:
14 Jul 2021, 10:32
Chyros wrote:
14 Jul 2021, 09:28
Excellent work on finding out the definitive lubricants they used! :D
For my part: hey man thanks, it's good hearing it from you :)
However, I have NOT tried any with wax in them. Wax also seems like a much more logical possibility given the texture of the lubricant found in old Alps switches; it doesn't look at all like a silicone or lithium grease to me. I may have to try to dissolve some wax in LPE and seeing if I can coat some Alps sliders with it. Bit of a hack job, but better than nothing, I guess.
So, you are saying that the "paraffin based mineral oil" that Threebond states, is actually a specific hydrocarbon "type"? That is wax-like?
I am not sure (I don't have the knowledge) but you are probably right, because when I got a little crazy and tried out some plain candle wax (check it out, it's some posts back), it did turn out to have a very similar feeling like the OG lube. :? :lol:

The official stated ingredients for the OG are these:

Main ingredients:
  • Paraffin based mineral oil
  • Lithium soap
  • Petroleum solvents
Now, if I am not mistaken, this means that the lube was a Lithium lube (thickener) with Paraffin based mineral oil (which we talk about). I have no idea what the petroleum solvents mean. Never heard of that before in a lube, maybe it is a translation issue? And they really meant something different, like "extra additives", as many lubes have (e.g., extreme pressure additives like PTFE or solid lubricants etc).

So, it definitely is not a Silicon(e) (thickener), but why do you think it is not a Lithium grease also? That confused me a bit to be honest, because Lithium Soap is listed as an ingredient and AFAIK pretty much there is no other use for Lithium Soap except as thickener for greases.

Anyway, to summarize, we should try to look for a lube that has Paraffin based mineral oil as base oil, right? And that high refined mineral oil or PAOs are not necessarily the same as Paraffin oil. Correct?

I'm glad that someone with a great knowledge about chems finally is here! Let's crack this mofo! :D
Well someone mentioned that they had wax in them, but looking at the ingredients list, I can't actually see that, no. Wax is definitely not the same as mineral oil, and I can't see anything in the ingredients list that's similar to candle wax. Paraffin is an extremely broad term; virtually useless to determine what it actually is, unfortunately. For all intents and purposes, you can equate "paraffin" to "hydrocarbon", mostly. So a "paraffin oil" is just a hydrocarbon-based oil (as opposed to silicone oil, or ethereal compounds, etc.)

The petroleum solvents are just there to make it thinner and easier to apply, I'm guessing. If it's something like LPE, it'll evaporate very quickly after application. A genuine solvent won't stay on the parts for long; that's what oils and greases are for (those two are notably different, by the way).

Lithium soap is a thickener for oils, generally to make greases. It's often used in high-vacuum applications; we use it in the lab as well, as it happens. Generally, lithium grease is notably yellow-brown. It's very sticky and viscous. I tried some neat Li grease on Alps switches and found it not-great; the switches feel like they're glued (which makes sense).

The first formulation, based on "polyoxyalkylene ether", is likely based on liquid-range PEG, or at the least something very similar. It's basically a polymer, but short-length enough that it's still in the liquid phase, rather than a solid. This looks like a pretty simple formulation; no wonder they still sell it.

The second and third formulation are oils thickened with lithium soap. The second one is a grease, whereas the third one remains a liquid; this makes sense considering the third one contains a solvent. The nature of the oils is different; the second one is ethereal, whereas the third one is a paraffin (in a paraffin solvent). I'm guessing the antioxidant in the second one is just a stabiliser for the polyether. Note that the amount of lithium soap isn't specified, and it might only be a little bit.

I think a major detail will be to know how it was applied. This may be able to tell us more about which lubricant it was. Because Alps lube is always found as a thin, very even layer distributed all over, but not on the inside (as far as I can see) I always assumed it was sprayed on. Something like a grease would not be sprayable (at least, not neat). Something in a solvent however seems much more logical. The solvent would make the grease sprayable, and then evaporate, leaving a thin layer of grease. It could've been a liquid, but liquids are much more liable to retaining dirt and dust, I think.

User avatar
NeK

15 Jul 2021, 10:07

Wow, what an explanation! It certainly seems that all these are complicated, but you did managed to narrow it down. If I understood correctly, we are ralking about a spray of hydrocarbons with some lithium soap? So not a grease per se but not a bare oil either. A spray that can be applied evenly, evaporate and leave a thin lithium soap + hydrocarbon oil film. But the lithium must be in very low dosage, just enough so it will not be sticky but also hold the oil in place.

What is your thought about this broad-range "Paraffin mineral oil"? Would high quality PAOs be similar enough?

If we can get it right, then I could contact Kluber and ask if they have a product that is close to that.

If we can't find a spray that evaporates, but we can find something similar in a very very thin grease, but with the right oil and thickener, would that work? Regardless of how difficult would be to apply?

User avatar
fohat
Elder Messenger

15 Jul 2021, 14:34

NeK wrote:
15 Jul 2021, 10:07

A spray that can be applied evenly

Regardless of how difficult would be to apply?
Now we get to the nut of the problem. Something that is quite straightforward in a factory environment where thousands of pieces are being done in batches, at the same time, in a dedicated area, could simply be beyond the capability of any hobbyist in a casual setting.

User avatar
Chyros

15 Jul 2021, 14:38

NeK wrote:
15 Jul 2021, 10:07
Wow, what an explanation! It certainly seems that all these are complicated, but you did managed to narrow it down. If I understood correctly, we are ralking about a spray of hydrocarbons with some lithium soap? So not a grease per se but not a bare oil either. A spray that can be applied evenly, evaporate and leave a thin lithium soap + hydrocarbon oil film. But the lithium must be in very low dosage, just enough so it will not be sticky but also hold the oil in place.
That's my guess, yes.
NeK wrote:
15 Jul 2021, 10:07
What is your thought about this broad-range "Paraffin mineral oil"? Would high quality PAOs be similar enough?
Technically they can mean very similar things, but I don't think that's the case here. How similar they will perform, I really can't say.
NeK wrote:
15 Jul 2021, 10:07
If we can't find a spray that evaporates, but we can find something similar in a very very thin grease, but with the right oil and thickener, would that work? Regardless of how difficult would be to apply?
That'd be the thing I'd look into first; something that can be sprayed and then leaves a thin layer of grease (not oil). But all this is just going on a hunch based on what the lube physically looks like, of course. If I had to guess, I'd think the SKCL/SKCM lubricant was TB2581P.

andresteare

16 Jul 2021, 18:42

NeK wrote:
14 Jul 2021, 10:45
NeK wrote:
14 Jul 2021, 09:07
No compound! Not at all because the plastics are very delicate. And I am talking about only 1st gen pine versions. The next generation stem plastic, is much more delicate and it will actually melt from the friction pretty easily, but those are already smoother and much easier to polish. Just use very low RPMs and ofcourse no pressure! However, the 1st gen are like stones.

Of course we are talking about very small cotton felt tips and low rotary speeds e.g. 10krpm
So here is what I use:

Dremel 2050-15 Stylo+
dremel-stylo.jpg

https://us.dremel.com/en_US/products/-/ ... craft-tool

Dremel 414 Felt Polishing Wheel
dremel-414-felt-tip.png

https://us.dremel.com/en_US/products/-/ ... hing-wheel

Dremel Stylo is the best (quality wise) but I'm pretty sure *any* rotary tool can do the job. The hard thing to find is the felt tips that must be the ones that I list. Probably there are other brands too but I haven't tried them, they must be good quality cotton felt, so I only recommend what I know that works. ;)
I was experimenting with later Alps and got to a very interesting result, since I don't have any earlier SKCM factory lube I can't compare with the real deal. If you have some later Alps to try I would appreciate if you give thoughts about this.

Here's my experiment (very cheap BTW):

- Purchased some Simplified Alps switches (SKBM White) to get cheap steel clicky leaf springs. You can skip this step if you have any SKCM clicky switch, I didn't so I improvised.

- Extracted the clicker and the slider (not sure if the later is necessary but since the slider in SKBM feels harder, I thought that maybe later SKCM slider would be too soft and scratch over time loosing tactility)

- Polished the slider in on the rails and and generally zones that have contact with the upper housing.

- Removed the upper housing and sprayed the inside with PTFE Dry lube

- Put the switch back together (SKCM lower housing, contact leaf and spring; with simplified Alps clicker and slider.

- The result feels amazingly smooth, can't notice any scratching and tactility is pretty great

I will try another switch but avoiding polishing the lower edge of the slider where the clicker makes the tactility, maybe this keep the smoothness but without compromising any tactility. (the steel surface is way smoother and metal coefficient of friction is also way lower than plastic, so the main factor here is plastic-plastic friction).
Also will try adding some lube to the rails and slits and look for a way to polish the later.


If anyone have both later and earlier SKCM switches I would appreciate your feedback, who knows, maybe we can workaround the lubrication barrier by making the slider butter smooth and dry lubing the upper housing.

Update: without opening the polished switch y applied Krytox 205 g2 on the slits and the visible part of the slider: any sign of binding is gone, pure smoothness, I encourage you to replicate my test and confirm results

User avatar
NeK

16 Jul 2021, 23:59

andresteare wrote:
16 Jul 2021, 18:42
anyone have both later and earlier SKCM switches I would appreciate your feedback, who knows, maybe we can workaround the lubrication barrier by making the slider butter smooth and dry lubing the upper housing.

Update: without opening the polished switch y applied Krytox 205 g2 on the slits and the visible part of the slider: any sign of binding is gone, pure smoothness, I encourage you to replicate my test and confirm results
Yes, I can verify that replacing the stems with stems with the newer material it is way smoother. Also using OKS477 with those, they get insanely smooth. No need for Krytox or dry ptfe or other exotic or expensive lubes. The material of the newer stems is already slippery and smooth.

I have talked about this way back in the thread.;)

However, the SKCM switches with the older material stems, if they are in NOS condition, are smoother and better. In fact they are unbelievably smooth and above all very pleasant and satisfiying.

That's why I am after replicating the OG lube and proper restoration of SKCM switches, because they are simply THAT good.

To summarize, a white pine SKCM keyboard (all white have the newer material stems) in excellent condition give one of the smoothest and most pleasant keyboard experiences. I cannot recommend them enough. If you also lube them, they become incredible! Pure joy!

However, a (really) excellent condition blue SKCM keyboard, is on a different level of smoothness, the feeling, the sliding, their weight and their sound are simply unique and out of this world. They are amazing, they are outstanding.
Last edited by NeK on 18 Jul 2021, 13:10, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Polecat

17 Jul 2021, 05:37

NeK wrote:
16 Jul 2021, 23:59

... (all white have the newer material stems)...
I'm not saying this isn't true, but what is your source for this? I have three or four very early white Alps keyboards with unbranded upper housings, and I can't tell them from blues, even on the models I have in matching blue Alps versions.

andresteare

17 Jul 2021, 19:14

NeK wrote:
13 Jul 2021, 09:00
Nothing from me. I have been pretty busy lately but I will find some time during the summer. Having said that, I can say this:

Besides the lubricant, after various tries I have come to believe that it is more important to properly restore the housing, stem and leafs by polishing them. At least for my test switches, a careful and light polishing made the biggest difference. That restored the switch to a high degree. Very smooth, no binding, much better feeling etc. And without lube.

At that point lubing becomes much more effective essentially completing the restoration to a proper 10/10 condition.

I have to delve into details though about how I do the polishing and that will require a big post. Will do that in the future if there's interest.
Back to this, after polishing, what lube solution did you tried? Nek's 50-50™?
My hypothesis is that after polishing, since the surface gets smoother maybe you don't need THAT much viscosity (less rough surface needs less separation) and something like Nyogel 760 would become an alternative?

User avatar
NeK

18 Jul 2021, 04:28

Polecat wrote:
17 Jul 2021, 05:37
NeK wrote:
16 Jul 2021, 23:59

... (all white have the newer material stems)...
I'm not saying this isn't true, but what is your source for this? I have three or four very early white Alps keyboards with unbranded upper housings, and I can't tell them from blues, even on the models I have in matching blue Alps versions.
No reliable source. Just my encounters (I have 4-5 white skcm boards) and just reading around. I may be wrong one this one sure.
It would be nice if you could pull out one switch of those very early white keyboards and take some good pics of the stems right beside a blue stem. I am curious too.

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