Alps Lubricant FOUND!

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NeK

30 Dec 2020, 23:31

All right guys and girls, I have finally nailed it. :D :D :D

I can safely say that, based on my research and my theory, I got ahead and ordered some lubes (3 different ones) that should work as the original. Two of them arrived yesterday and to my satisfaction, indeed one of them turned out to be *almost* as good as the original! It can restore a switch to its sweet original condition like magic! I will name this lube as "Magic NeKtar" for now, just for teasing you guys and just for having fun. :P :mrgreen:
I still waiting for one more lubricant to arrive and to try it out, so until then, I will not declare this as a final result. And also I want to stress out that the lube that I am waiting for, probably is even closer to the original and will probably be even better in general, if my theory is still right - as it has been proved to be with this one. ;)

Meanwhile here's a teaser video:
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 8-) 8-) 8-)

Can't wait to hear your reactions and opinions. I will make a detailed post about this later on, after I get the new lube and try that out.

NOTE: Please ignore the upstroke click. I know it exists, but didn't care to fix it at this time. It has no bearing on the what we focus on, the lube, the sound and the feel of the switch and I just wanted to complete this video right away. Also I actually got ahead and did this teaser on my Focus 2002 with blue SKCM ALPS. Just wanted to point out that no switches were harmed, only those in the video had been opened and cleaned/lubed very carefully.

User avatar
TheInverseKey

31 Dec 2020, 05:53

NeK wrote:
30 Dec 2020, 23:31
Spoiler:
All right guys and girls, I have finally nailed it. :D :D :D

I can safely say that, based on my research and my theory, I got ahead and ordered some lubes (3 different ones) that should work as the original. Two of them arrived yesterday and to my satisfaction, indeed one of them turned out to be *almost* as good as the original! It can restore a switch to its sweet original condition like magic! I will name this lube as "Magic NeKtar" for now, just for teasing you guys and just for having fun. :P :mrgreen:
I still waiting for one more lubricant to arrive and to try it out, so until then, I will not declare this as a final result. And also I want to stress out that the lube that I am waiting for, probably is even closer to the original and will probably be even better in general, if my theory is still right - as it has been proved to be with this one. ;)

Meanwhile here's a teaser video:
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 8-) 8-) 8-)

Can't wait to hear your reactions and opinions. I will make a detailed post about this later on, after I get the new lube and try that out.

NOTE: Please ignore the upstroke click. I know it exists, but didn't care to fix it at this time. It has no bearing on the what we focus on, the lube, the sound and the feel of the switch and I just wanted to complete this video right away. Also I actually got ahead and did this teaser on my Focus 2002 with blue SKCM ALPS. Just wanted to point out that no switches were harmed, only those in the video had been opened and cleaned/lubed very carefully.

How does this new lubricant in the video compare to R0-59KT?

headphone_jack

31 Dec 2020, 06:10

What is the commercial name of this new lube? Keeping it a secret and naming it after yourself implies that you're going to try and sell it or something.

Jacobalbertus1

31 Dec 2020, 06:16

headphone_jack wrote:
31 Dec 2020, 06:10
What is the commercial name of this new lube? Keeping it a secret and naming it after yourself implies that you're going to try and sell it or something.
id be angered if this happened because at the end we didn't start this thread to have 1 person find out a great lube and then not share iwere all in this together

User avatar
Muramasa

31 Dec 2020, 06:20

Guys he literally says "I will name this lube as "Magic NeKtar" for now, just for teasing you guys and just for having fun. :P"

headphone_jack

31 Dec 2020, 07:17

Ah, my mistake. Sorry NeK!

User avatar
NeK

31 Dec 2020, 10:29

Relax guys, it's just for teasing and fun. :D it did worked though, didn't it? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

As I said, when the last lube that I ordered will arrive, these days (expected at 4-5 Jan) and try that out too, I will post all the details. I still think that this last lube will be the best one, so stay tuned.
TheInverseKey wrote:
31 Dec 2020, 05:53
How does this new lubricant in the video compare to R0-59KT?
No idea, I haven't tried R0-59TK. Does it have a proper Technical Data Sheet? If it does then I can say if it even comes close.

User avatar
JP!

31 Dec 2020, 16:29

If the last one works even better it shall be known as the "NeKtar of the Gods".

User avatar
hellothere

31 Dec 2020, 18:43

TheInverseKey wrote:
31 Dec 2020, 05:53
How does this new lubricant in the video compare to R0-59KT?
THANK YOU. That made my brain click. That's the stuff I lubed my white Alps with, although it's called RO-59tmKT. The "TM" isn't because it's trademarked. It's actually part of the name. It's also an "O" and not a "0." As I've linked to a store in the EU, I'll mention you can get it in the US for $13 at https://ringerkeys.com/collections/lubricants. It's a very tiny bottle and it has a shelf life.

This stuff turned my white Alps from awful to very good. While I'm waiting for a deal to close on another white Alps board, I'm probably not going to lube it because it's supposed to be in extremely good shape. However, if anyone wants to send me a few white Alps boards to test, I've no problems with that. PM me. I might cover one way shipping.

========

OK, back on topic. I mentioned that when I applied Nyogel to my salmon Alps keeb, I also ultrasonically cleaned the top housings and sliders beforehand. I don't recall that being in the video and many folks have said that ultrasonic cleaning does improve Alps key switches. It's also been mentioned and verified, in my case and one other poster's case, at least, that it takes a while for Nyogel to make a difference, like a week to a few weeks. That's also not in the video. So, "It doesn't work because I'm not following the directions," can also be considered a valid conclusion.

I'll also be disappointed if this is all trolling.

User avatar
TheInverseKey

31 Dec 2020, 20:07

hellothere wrote:
31 Dec 2020, 18:43
Spoiler:
TheInverseKey wrote:
31 Dec 2020, 05:53
How does this new lubricant in the video compare to R0-59KT?
THANK YOU. That made my brain click. That's the stuff I lubed my white Alps with, although it's called RO-59tmKT. The "TM" isn't because it's trademarked. It's actually part of the name. It's also an "O" and not a "0." As I've linked to a store in the EU, I'll mention you can get it in the US for $13 at https://ringerkeys.com/collections/lubricants. It's a very tiny bottle and it has a shelf life.

This stuff turned my white Alps from awful to very good. While I'm waiting for a deal to close on another white Alps board, I'm probably not going to lube it because it's supposed to be in extremely good shape. However, if anyone wants to send me a few white Alps boards to test, I've no problems with that. PM me. I might cover one way shipping.

========

OK, back on topic. I mentioned that when I applied Nyogel to my salmon Alps keeb, I also ultrasonically cleaned the top housings and sliders beforehand. I don't recall that being in the video and many folks have said that ultrasonic cleaning does improve Alps key switches. It's also been mentioned and verified, in my case and one other poster's case, at least, that it takes a while for Nyogel to make a difference, like a week to a few weeks. That's also not in the video. So, "It doesn't work because I'm not following the directions," can also be considered a valid conclusion.

I'll also be disappointed if this is all trolling.
Ahh yes I mistyped lol, I also sell RO-59KT(tm) on my store. The self life is not really when it expires but really a best before date. I have used even so called "expired" RO-59KT and yielded the same result as non "expired". I know that when I used RO-59KT it also gave a slightly deeper sound so I'm interested if Nek would be able to a side by side.

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Lynx_Carpathica

31 Dec 2020, 20:41

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXBJRz_33Y8
(no clue how the f does the youtube button work XD Srry.

Edit: how well does it work on white alps? That's the real question imho. :D

User avatar
NeK

31 Dec 2020, 20:50

hellothere wrote:
31 Dec 2020, 18:43
OK, back on topic. I mentioned that when I applied Nyogel to my salmon Alps keeb, I also ultrasonically cleaned the top housings and sliders beforehand. I don't recall that being in the video and many folks have said that ultrasonic cleaning does improve Alps key switches. It's also been mentioned and verified, in my case and one other poster's case, at least, that it takes a while for Nyogel to make a difference, like a week to a few weeks. That's also not in the video. So, "It doesn't work because I'm not following the directions," can also be considered a valid conclusion.

I'll also be disappointed if this is all trolling.
Removing the factory lubricant from SKCM switches immediately makes them awful. The lube is there for a reason.
Except of course, if you are suggesting that the brilliant ALPS engineers, after they have designed one of the best switches of all time, were incompetent and stupid enough to pay more and have to lube them, for no reason, when they could instead just... NOT lube them and leave them completely clean and save money and then the switches would be even better? Well, I dont think so.

Or do you suggest that ultrasonic cleaning, somehow does something more than... just cleaning?

I dont understand what you are trying to say or do but it seems to me that you are trying to defend nyogel 760G. Well, why don't you go ahead and show me and everyone else how good it is, I won't going to stop you from making a quick video of how good it is. I promise.

If you can't do it, then please stop it, because by now you are definitely getting bothersome to me and I don't have any willingness on chasing imaginary things and losing time on placebo and make-believe things.

And for the record, I have left BLUE SKCM switches with nyogel 760G on months to "cure" and guess what, they didnt. They are just as awfully binding, as day 1. And no, the amount of lube plays no role on the end result. Too much, will simply mean that it will get spilled left and right and you will have to clean it. It will NOT make the sliding worse. It is not possible.

And also you know why 760G doesn't work? Because that lube has a very low viscosity base oil (PAO). Low viscosity is good only for lubing very fast sliding parts, like bearings on fast rotating machine gears. For slow sliding surfaces however, not only it does nothing, but in fact it makes the stick-slip phenomenon even worse. Well, how surprising, that is exactly what the low viscosity 760G performed with my own experiences. Who could have imagine that?

And to clarify, this information is not my own, it comes straight from the conclusions of a scientifically published paper on this exact issue. I have a link to it in my previous posts, and IF you paid any attention, you would have at least read it.

But of course, you are free to continue on arguing how "the proper lube amount" or how waiting for weeks/months on end to "cure", will eventually make the wrong lube, despite all that scientific bu****t that says otherwise, suddenly make the switch be great again.

Good luck with that, now can we, the rest of us that don't want to spent any time beating a dead horse, move on, and try to do some real work? Thanks

User avatar
NeK

31 Dec 2020, 21:11

Lynx_Carpathica wrote:
31 Dec 2020, 20:41
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXBJRz_33Y8
(no clue how the f does the youtube button work XD Srry.

Edit: how well does it work on white alps? That's the real question imho. :D
:D cool clip hahaha

Well, it does indeed work for white alps too! It makes them pure joy, no scratch that, it makes them a pure pleasure!

User avatar
hellothere

31 Dec 2020, 22:40

> Removing the factory lubricant from SKCM switches immediately makes them awful. The lube is there for a reason.
Except of course, if you are suggesting that the brilliant ALPS engineers, after they have designed one of the best switches of all time, were incompetent and stupid enough to pay more and have to lube them.
I had to read this a couple times. You're saying that at least some Alps switches need lubricant. However, we need to identify which key switches in the SKCM group actually came with lubricant. Unless I missed something, as far as we know, the only one we know definitely did was orange Alps. If there were more and confirmed by more than one source, I missed it. That's an apology on my part.

The comment about "incompetent and stupid" engineers makes me think of something like, "If Nissan engineers, after they have designed one of the best cars of all time, were incompetent and stupid enough to make those cars require oil changes ..."

In addition to this, unless I missed this -- and again, if I did, that's an apology on my part -- we haven't even determined what plastics were used for each SKCM switch. We do know that the construction of the SKCM switches visually changed over the years. Maybe they also changed plastics. Maybe something else changed.

> Or do you suggest that ultrasonic cleaning, somehow does something more than... just cleaning?
No, but if your key switches are filled with 25+ years of keyboard chow, chances are pretty good that your switches will work better after cleaning. Additionally, I don't think that keyboard switches that have been sitting around for 25+ years, even if you had them stored in a climate controlled environment, are in "brand new" shape. In any case, the reason I mentioned the cleaning is to try to get closer to a scientific test of, well, everything mentioned about lubes and Alps switches in this thread.

> And for the record, I have left BLUE SKCM switches with nyogel 760G
I've tried on cream damped and salmon. Maybe there's something interesting about the blue switches. Additionally, did you actually type on the switches every day? How many switches did you try? Maybe that makes a difference. For me, it's very hard to tell from one switch if it's good or not. I try to get at least 26 to test and put them in a keyboard.

> Too much, will simply mean that it will get spilled left and right and you will have to clean it. It will NOT make the sliding worse. It is not possible.
The comment about "too much" wasn't made by me, but that's something else to test. I probably do use more than others, but it's not like I'm using an entire tube per keyboard.

> I dont understand what you are trying to say or do but it seems to me that you are trying to defend nyogel 760G
I personally don't care about the brand or anything. I'm saying, "This worked for me," then you're saying, "It really didn't work for hellothere because (wall of text)." You're saying my opinion is invalid. Hey, it's an opinion. By definition it can't be invalid. A better approach would be to see if you could duplicate my results. You've not done that. As far as I've been able to tell, you've tested on one blue switch. No salmons. No cream damped.

> And also you know why 760G doesn't work? Because that lube has a very low viscosity base oil (PAO).
And, for the folks it did work for ... they're imagining things? Disassembling and cleaning made everything work and the Nyogel being there is just a coincidence? I know you mentioned the placebo effect, but I really did have a couple binding keys on my salmon board and now I don't. I also can't get a key on my white Alps, which I lubed with the RO stuff, to bind.

I am not a Materials Scientist. I am not an engineer. However, the testing done in this thread is not scientific. It's anecdotal. Let me lay out a real test. I'll go ahead and say blue Alps:

You first need several brand new blue Alps keyboards of the same make and model and, preferably, with sequential serial numbers, in a serial number range that we know no other tooling or keyswitch materials changes were made. You'd also want to make sure that the switches are from the same batch. You can use NOS keyboards instead if and only if they were stored the same way. The comments about serial numbers, etc. remain the same.

Keyboard tech confirms that all the keebs and switches are in the same condition or close to it.

* Control keeb. Completely stock.
* Test keeb 1. Clean the top housings and sliders ultrasonically. (If you really wanted to be picky, you would have a control of just ultrasoniced with water and another with whatever ultrasonic cleaning stuff you like. The water has to be degassed properly, from the same source and at the same temperature. Make sure you ultrasonic for the same length of time.)
* Test keeb 2. Everything from test keeb 1, but treat the housings (or sliders) with Nyogel/RO-59tmKT/peanut butter/whatever. Allow it to cure/dry/stiffen/etc. per manufacturer direction OR, if you want to test some sort of anecdotal information, like type on it for an hour a day for a few weeks, do that.
* Victim 1: test the keyboards. Have him write down which one feels the best. Have the victim write out a prepared doc. (Remember, same make and model, so it's a blind test.)
* Victim 2: test the keyboards. Have him write down which one feels the best. Use the same doc. (Remember, same make and model, so it's a blind test.)
* Victim 3: test the keyboards. Have him write down which one feels the best. Use the same doc. (Remember, same make and model, so it's a blind test.)

Three victims because, at the very least, you should get an average answer.

That's even leaving out some steps. Yes, it's exhaustive. Do I want to do all that? Definitely not. Would I even be able to do one of these tests? Sorta. Because we're talking about keebs that are at least 25 years old and it's probably next to impossible to find three NOS ones with the characteristics I laid out, I do have three AEK IIs with cream damped switches I could test. But ... I'm happy to stick with stuff I already know has worked for me, rather than spend a day swapping switches.

Hey, if someone else in this thread comes up with a better solution, I'd be happy to try it, provided it's not hideously expensive. Even if it's from you, NeK. I think that's most people's bottom line. I wouldn't be the first to try, though. I let other people beta test for me :D.

User avatar
Lynx_Carpathica

31 Dec 2020, 22:59

NeK wrote:
31 Dec 2020, 21:11
Lynx_Carpathica wrote:
31 Dec 2020, 20:41
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXBJRz_33Y8
(no clue how the f does the youtube button work XD Srry.

Edit: how well does it work on white alps? That's the real question imho. :D
:D cool clip hahaha

Well, it does indeed work for white alps too! It makes them pure joy, no scratch that, it makes them a pure pleasure!
That sounds very good to me... It's suboptimal for me due to the internal friction.

User avatar
NeK

31 Dec 2020, 23:46

hellothere wrote:
31 Dec 2020, 22:40
I had to read this a couple times. You're saying that at least some Alps switches need lubricant. However, we need to identify which key switches in the SKCM group actually came with lubricant.
Now it is clear where the misunderstanding is coming from.

This topic is "ALPS lubricant found", we are talking about the original lubricant that ALPS used. We are STRICTLY talking about those ALPS switches that are factory lubricated with that lube. Only for those. There is no sense in talking about the "ALPS lubricant", that non lubricated switches had, now are we?

So to summarize, I know these facts:

Fact 1: that Blue and Orange SKCM switches are factory lubricated and they actually do have lubricant applied to them and it is clearly seens by the naked eye if you look it close to a light.

Fact 2: ALPS switches after 1991 or so started producing switches with a different material for the slider/stem. A material that was slippery and didnt NEED any lubricant. It was slippery enough by itself. (Using a process of infusion of dry libricants into the plastic mix)

Fact 3: those non-lubricated switches came with no lubricant on them, (duh... i know. because they didnt need them). Therefore, there is no problem when you clean those (ultrasonically, chemically or with any other way) because they do not get wasted. In fact, when you do clean them, after decades, they actually get better because of the removal of any accumulated dirt and dust that has a bad friction effect on them (made them slower/heavier especially on the corners).
So, the saying "ultrasonic cleaning is good for ALPS" is true for these non factory lubricated ones. However, this saying does not apply for any switch that is pre lubricated, because if the lube is removed then the switch gets pretty bad. So you should never clean those switches. Not even dust them, because the lube will come off.

Fact 4: if the factory lubricant gets removed from those, the plastic material of the slider/stem DOES NOT SLIDE SMOOTHLY ANY MORE. It binds, gets rough and feels awful.

Fact 5: people have tried various lubricants (chyros comes to mind) with the pre-lubed switches, and none really worked. Almost all were making the switches worse, and only one or two had any positive lubricating effect. But even then, far and away from the smooth effect that the original lube had.

Opinion: probably the reason that people prefer BLUE and ORANGE switches is exactly because of that original lubricant, which makes them unbelievably smooth and give them this velvet feel that no other switch has.

Fact 6: the newer switches can be lubed with almost all types of plastic friendly lube and all of them probably will make them better. Because of the newer material.

So any discussion of lubing those, has no place in this topic. This topic is about the holy grail of lubricants that ALPS used to lube those prelubed switches (again, they need it because they were designed to be only used with lube).

Now please, lets move on. Don't derail this thread anymore. I dont mean to be rude, but if we continue discussing off-topic things here, the topic will lose its point and people will get more and more confused and leave. It would be best, to separate some posts from this thread, to a new one in order for this one to stay focused, on finding the original (or a very similar) lube used on the prelubed switches.

I don't know if salmon switches were prelubed. Someone that knows, please enlighten us.

Jacobalbertus1

01 Jan 2021, 07:14

salmon switches are a mix there are salmon switches that ARE lubed and then there are ones that are not i have seen lube on some same with white alps

User avatar
NeK

01 Jan 2021, 11:41

Jacobalbertus1 wrote:
01 Jan 2021, 07:14
salmon switches are a mix there are salmon switches that ARE lubed and then there are ones that are not i have seen lube on some same with white alps
That's interesting!

I now wonder, if the Salmon stems have the old or the newer material. Do they come with both also, depending if they are lubed or not? Logically, the lubed ones should have the old material and the non-lubed the newer. As for the whites, all white skcm boards that I have, are non-lubed and they all have the newer material stems, so I can't verify if the prelubed whites come with the old or the newer material.

It would be great if we could establish the follwing: that the earlier stems with the earlier material were always prelubed and newer material stems were always non-lubed.

For that, I did a quick reading of the wiki, and I found a place where it says this:
Around 1989, all the slider colours changed, with the suggestion being that a newer, smoother plastic was used (this can be seen in the shinier sliders of switches from this point onwards and the lack of dry lubricant on switches from this period onwards); this was not a clean break, as SKCM White continued to use dry lubricant briefly after it replaced SKCM Blue,[4] and uncertainty remains as to which older switches correspond to which newer switches
wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series#Evolution

which reference [4] as source this post:
've noticed a significant difference between two of my White Alps keyboards. One of them is from ~1989, and the other one is probably from 1992/1993. The 1989 keyboard's White Alps feel much different and they definitely used dry lubricant at some point because there is grey residue on the slider.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12915&start=420#p299646

This is the picture from that post
Image

Keycap, the author of that post, points out that the "old" (early) white stem has lube on it and that the newer doesn't based on the dark stain on the bottom of the stem seen in the picture. However, I am not convinced because
1. the dark residue on the bottom is just stain, as others have pointed out on previous posts, formed from the years of contact with the metal leaf (oxidation? I don't know), and not a lubricant. If they were actually pre-lubed, then the lube would be visible as darker coating all over the switch, especially seeing it against a bright light.
2. the plastic materials of "old" and "new" on that picture are the same, they look exactly as the all other instances I have seen of the newer material stems. You can tell that just by how shiny they are and how smooth they appear. The earlier material on the other hand, is not that shiny and with close viewing, it is visible that it has some tiny texture to it (i.e. not perfectly smooth).

Of course, please correct me if I am wrong in any of these. So here we have a comparison of early and later pine Whites, where both of them, as far as I can tell, are made of the newer material. And, apart from the - disputed - stain in the bottom where the metal leafs contact, there is no evidence that the "old" had any lubricant. Again, please correct me on this, and if keycap is reading this, please, if you still have them, would it be a trouble for you to take some more pictures of the old and new stems again? That would be very helpful.

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Lynx_Carpathica

01 Jan 2021, 23:47

I have an AEKII with damped ivory switches.
I might have found lubricant on it. Is it a matte layer of stuff, that I can wipe off with my finger, or smeere with a brush, and it's on every single visible part of the slider, and is a very very thin layer.

User avatar
NeK

02 Jan 2021, 04:06

Here is a photo of how a prelubed stem looks. it can only be seen against a light source, in an angle that is reflecting the light directly. (in non reflecting angles, it simply cannot be seen at all.)

The darker areas, are the lube that has never been in contact and has dried up and darkened. Thus implying, that the shiny (non dark) areas, are where the sliding contact took place and the lube there has been smeared. To verify that those darker spots are actually lube, you can use a pin/tweezer and gently touch a dark area and move it around, it will smear the lube and leave a visible "clean" trace on it.
20210102_045307.jpg
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20210102_052831.jpg
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And here is the newer material stem of a White pine SKCM
20210102_054412.jpg
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20210102_054625.jpg
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Notice how there are no dark spots anywhere (no lube). And especially notice how the areas of contact are appearing actually a bit darker, giving the opposite result than that of the blue SKCM above.

Again to verify that there is no lube, use a pin and try to smear the "darker" areas around, nothing will happen or change.

Also notice how shiny and smoother the material is. And look that weird vertical stripe in the middle, that is not present on the Blue SKCM stem, as far as I recall.

Hope this helps.

User avatar
Lynx_Carpathica

02 Jan 2021, 11:06

https://youtu.be/1KYG02YA_Ac
There. Hopefully, you can see it.

User avatar
NeK

02 Jan 2021, 12:44

Yeap, that stem is definitely lubed. Can you also tell what kind of material is the plastic? If it is the old or the newer one? I also think that I have the same switches in an AEK, I will checked them out too.

Btw that's a nice plastic thingy you used. What is it?

User avatar
Lynx_Carpathica

02 Jan 2021, 13:44

Dunno... Some plastic prytool. It's 3 yrs old but haven't broken yet. So that's neat.
Datecode inside slider: 5C, top: 26N
9C, 18A

Branded top
Seems to be shiny, like white alps. Maybe that's the reason why doesn't it feel like crap after I wiped it down completely.

shallot

02 Jan 2021, 18:37

Baffling thing to me is that you're still sitting on what your supposed top-tier new lube actually is, while suddenly acting like you're the god-king of lubricant. Why don't you just share your information like someone that actually wants to increase the hobby's collective knowledge instead of prancing around writing bits of your posts in bold and lording it over other people?

Teasing? More like tedious mate.
I lubed this switch with mayonnaise and it still feels good several weeks later - smooth, no binding, nice sound.
Last edited by shallot on 02 Jan 2021, 18:43, edited 1 time in total.

Jacobalbertus1

02 Jan 2021, 18:40

Wed all like to know what this lube is so we can all test it as more testing done by more people the better

User avatar
NeK

02 Jan 2021, 18:52

guys I'm not saying it because I don't think it is good enough. The more I read and the more I test it, the more I am confident that it is not "the one". Do you want me to tell you and then you all go buy it and then come back at me screaming bloody hell?

If you are so inpatient, then fine, whoever wants to know, they can PM me and I'll let them know, but if you go ahead and buy it and you don't like it, then it's on you, and only on you. Deal?

The mayo video would be funny, if you weren't toxic.

shallot

02 Jan 2021, 19:40

At least I actually said what my lube was.

Jan Pospisil

02 Jan 2021, 19:44

(That's decent mayo, btw. Mayo and butter are slightly different everywhere and can be hard to not have a strong preference for. But yeah, I quite liked this brand when I visited Poland in the past.)

User avatar
NeK

02 Jan 2021, 19:52

I am reading the patent that ALPS themselves gave to Jacobalbertus1, and I see now that it describes pretty precisely a grease, with a Silicon Oil (polymethylsiloxane) for the Base Oil having a viscosity of 50,000 to 100,000 cSt at 25 celcius temperature and mixed with an Aluminium Complex Soap for a thickener.

The very high viscosity is in agreement with what I had concluded from my reasearch, and that is a nice relief to know. However, what surprised me is that it uses an Aluminium Complex Soap for the thickener. This is substantially different from the TB2583G! Either the TB2583G has no relation with the TB2581P that ALPS themselves said we should use, and we must find the real newer "descendant" of 2581P, that should be an aluminium complex soap with a very high viscosity Silicon Oil. Or the patent has no relation with the real original lube.

We should work together to figure this out. Jacobalbertus1 I have sent you a PM please check it out. I ask you if you could give more information on your.correspondance with ALPS where they gave you that patent number. That would shed some light to this.

Jacobalbertus1

02 Jan 2021, 20:53

The whole email is all I got from alps

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