New keyboard Italian 105 ISO layout

alaindet

12 May 2020, 18:22

Hi guys,
I'm a programmer and 6 months ago I was hired as a junior web dev. I mostly use laptops but during the quarantine I started working from home and I need a serious keyboard, something that lasts. I own a very (very) scrappy 5-10$ chinese keyboard and 2 wireless Logitech keyboards. I love having a clean working place hence I bought the wireless but I use the scrappy one anyway because it's full sized and I'm much more productive since some chars are missing on my layout (like tildes and backticks) and I need Alt+numpad combinations. HOWEVER, I need the italian 105 keys full-sized layout since I need all symbols (accented letters and such) for work chats, emails and writing docs and I'm used to Alt+numpad combinations anyway.

I don't have many price concerns, I just wish I didn't need 200€+ for a decent non-flashy office keyboard.

- Italian 105 ISO layout
- Preferably white or light as it perfectly matches the white/light wood setup of the room
- Preferably compact (maybe 45 cm max (17.7"))
- Preferably with a detachable cable, USB-C or older is fine
- Impossibly wireless, but I know there aren't wireless mechanicals lasting long out there
- I prefer some bounce while typing, so I guess mechanicals are great, but I despite very tall and a little stuck keys as I tend to move hands a lot (which is bad, I know) and I wouldn't mind even a very good rubber-dome, I just need something good
- I only tried two mechanical switches: 1) very cheap blue-like, immediately returned via Amazon as the keyboard sounded like a machine gun trying to make my head explode, I literally got sick of it in 2 days; 2) some real Cherry MX Red at a friend's house which I liked, but maybe that's because they were far better than the machine-gun-blues I tried before. I never tried the brown ones, I don't know if they're also so damn loud (but I doubt it very much)
- I'm sure everything works on Linux, but I need it to be compatible with it if it has some software since I have a second PC with Ubuntu and a bluetooth keyboard I own doesn't work fine with it

I can go either premium, custom or very cheap, whatever, just give me some viable options guys, thank you!

User avatar
derzemel

12 May 2020, 22:05

Logitech MX-Keys could be what you search for (it also has backlight). Membrane, but it seems that it is a good one (here's a video review for it). Logitech also have a palm rest for it, but at 19Eur, I think it is expensive for what it is.

If you want a no-bulshit mechanical keyboard (sadly with cable), Filco Majestouch 2 could be a solution

User avatar
Muirium
µ

12 May 2020, 22:31

Yup. Your demands are all quite reasonable. Perhaps our resident Italians can help you with specific recommendations for where to buy online. Italian layout is best sourced from Italian retailers! (Importing keyboards into Europe yourself gets expensive, so beware American links.)

Seeing as you liked MX red, my tip is to get your own keyboard with either those or MX black. They’re solid switches, and MX at its best. The click mechanisms in MX blue are a chintzy addon, as are the tactile bumps in MX brown. Cherry is linear at its heart. (And I’m not personally a fan…)

Oh, to answer your query about brown: they’re silent, just as quiet as reds. But they feel like reds with a weird bump in the middle, from a little plastic notch.

I like where you’re coming from, colour wise. Now: how white do you want your white to be?

Image

I mean, this is Deskthority. We’re going to try luring you towards the classics, you are warned!

n3oNx

12 May 2020, 23:12

I've got an IBM M122 ISO-IT but I guess it only fulfills the Italian part...

It's massive and wired and badass ahah

alaindet

13 May 2020, 14:02

derzemel wrote:
12 May 2020, 22:05
Logitech MX-Keys could be what you search for (it also has backlight). Membrane, but it seems that it is a good one (here's a video review for it). Logitech also have a palm rest for it, but at 19Eur, I think it is expensive for what it is.

If you want a no-bulshit mechanical keyboard (sadly with cable), Filco Majestouch 2 could be a solution

Thanks for the feedback, I saw the Logitech one and actually it's an option, but I don't like the fact it has F keys squashed together. It's a strong option anyway given its available and has IT layout

I came across the Filco just recently and it seems to be great, I just have to find a retailer selling them with IT layout, which seems difficult these days

alaindet

13 May 2020, 14:06

Muirium wrote:
12 May 2020, 22:31
Yup. Your demands are all quite reasonable. Perhaps our resident Italians can help you with specific recommendations for where to buy online. Italian layout is best sourced from Italian retailers! (Importing keyboards into Europe yourself gets expensive, so beware American links.)

Seeing as you liked MX red, my tip is to get your own keyboard with either those or MX black. They’re solid switches, and MX at its best. The click mechanisms in MX blue are a chintzy addon, as are the tactile bumps in MX brown. Cherry is linear at its heart. (And I’m not personally a fan…)

Oh, to answer your query about brown: they’re silent, just as quiet as reds. But they feel like reds with a weird bump in the middle, from a little plastic notch.

I like where you’re coming from, colour wise. Now: how white do you want your white to be?

Image

I mean, this is Deskthority. We’re going to try luring you towards the classics, you are warned!
Thanks for the reply. By all means, I *do* like classics so go on! :) When I say "white" I really mean "light" and even "greyish" or "yellowish" is fine, as it fits the style of the room. That's the kind of "boring but classic" look I'm looking for and I'm pretty bothered with black keyboards at the moment. I cleaned lots of old keyboards recently for fun but they're all crap cheap ones with a pretty non-existent quality hence I couldn't switch.

Thanks again

alaindet

13 May 2020, 14:07

n3oNx wrote:
12 May 2020, 23:12
I've got an IBM M122 ISO-IT but I guess it only fulfills the Italian part...

It's massive and wired and badass ahah
Even so, it's better than nothing! Willing to sell or share photos? (Partially joking here) :D

User avatar
Muirium
µ

13 May 2020, 15:24

If you think MX blue is loud, then Model M may well not be for you. HINT: IT IS LIKE A STAPLER.

Here’s what a UK layout of the very same keyboard looks like. The 122 is as w i d e as they come. So he’s not kidding about his warning!
Muirium wrote:
15 Jan 2019, 18:10
Aran.E99 wrote:
15 Jan 2019, 11:35
Muirium - What price would I be looking at for that?
How about £45 plus shipping? It’s in pretty nice shape.

Image
Image

Bear in mind these 122 keys are terminal Model Ms so need Soarer’s converter to work with USB. I have a few Teensy 2 spare if you’d like.

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fohat
Elder Messenger

13 May 2020, 17:34

A complete set of straight plain conventional F1-F24 function keys is uncommon and desirable.

alaindet

14 May 2020, 15:24

I've got this Lenovo keyboard at my parents' house, it's a little bit bulky and has PS/2 port but man, it's so much better than the crap ones I've got at my place, even the wireless ones. I guess it gives you some more info
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n3oNx

14 May 2020, 22:16

Here's mine.

Already cleaned and waiting for the nuts&bolts for the mod.

https://ibb.co/w6C3kt4

alaindet

14 May 2020, 22:28

I forgot to mention this. It's my laptop's keyboard, a ThinkPad L440 which is the cheap one compared to the T series. It's amazingly good, each stroke is pure joy although the rest of the machine is subpar. Too bad they don't make these as external keyboards, I think you'd love these if you tried one!

Is there anything like that? Also, why are they so good?
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User avatar
Muirium
µ

15 May 2020, 12:08

Um… I know there’s some ThinkPad fans here on DT, but generally speaking we tend to hate laptop keyboards with a fiery vengeance compared to the desktop mechanicals we love, so, uh…

Seriously, though, chiclet boards are my own personal object of loathing. Laptop keyboards were more sufferable in the era before them, when they were still scissor-switch but had more travel and a lot more feel. As an Apple guy, I’m thinking of the PowerBook G4 days vs. the chiclet MacBooks. <shudder> I’m not sure if Apple were first with their 2006 plastic chiclets, but everyone else sure wound up on the same road.

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bhtooefr

15 May 2020, 14:18

alaindet wrote:
14 May 2020, 22:28
Is there anything like that?
The ThinkPad Compact USB Keyboard exists: https://www.lenovo.com/it/it/accessorie ... /p/0B47207

I just last night stopped daily driving the (now discontinued, in favor of the ThinkPad TrackPoint Keyboard II) Bluetooth US layout version of that keyboard, in favor of a TEX Shinobi.

Also, an Italian version of the new ThinkPad TrackPoint Keyboard II, which is an updated Bluetooth version, has a part number of 4Y40X49512 assigned, but I don't see it on the Italian Lenovo site. (The US one just recently became available.)

But, yeah, scissor-stabilized rubber domes with island keycaps are the antithesis of this forum's focus.

alaindet

15 May 2020, 15:55

I'm sorry to disappoint you guys! :) I just thought it was good, no offense. Do you know of any italian layout good keyboards out there? I'm struggling to find a non-gaming one

User avatar
Muirium
µ

15 May 2020, 16:24

Hey, don’t worry about it! We all have to start somewhere. And, ultimately, if laptop boards are your thing then you’re all set! It’s us keyboard snobs who make life difficult for ourselves.

User avatar
bhtooefr

15 May 2020, 17:43

Also, to answer your question as for why you like your ThinkPad's keyboard... for a short-travel rubber dome, IBM and Lenovo have historically done a good job at specifying rubber domes that have a comparatively crisp buckling response, so they've felt less mushy than some of their competition.

(That said, in the past decade, a lot of other manufacturers have gotten better.)

If you think MX blues (or clones thereof) are loud, then yeah, you're gonna end up with quiet tactile, or linear, or even quiet linear switches, or something like Topre (a very high-end rubber dome... but I actually personally prefer good conventional rubber domes over Topre, there's just something about how Topre feels rubs me the wrong way).

User avatar
Muirium
µ

15 May 2020, 18:16

Speaking up for Topre: it’s a rubber dome which fires half way down, like mechanical key switches. Other domes have to reach the bottom to mush the membrane closed below. I’m very much a fan of Topre over every other tactile switch I’ve tried.

But in keyboards: the only rule is we are all so different!

alaindet

26 May 2020, 00:45

Update: I've bought the Logitech MX Keys because it had the italian layout and I bought it for less than 100€ at a local store. It's also easy to put in a backpack so I'm sure I'll use it also at work. So far, it seems a very solid purchase, I'll let you know if I'll change my mind. Thank you guys! :

alaindet

29 May 2020, 01:02

Update: I returned the keyboard due to its strange layout, LOL. It has cramped Home/End buttons on top of arrows, cramped F1-F12 keys and an additional row of keys on top of the num pad, which means muscle memory is completely lost. Not good for me!

gianni

01 Jun 2020, 16:02

I'm a very happy owner of a gmmk keyboard in iso layout. It has hot swap switches.

About the keycaps, I'd like to suggest looking on aliexpress, you can find super high quality pbt keycaps in italian!!!!
If you want any help in finding them, please write here. Please let me know.

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