Keyboard layout presentation, come and tell me how can I improve it

evokee

06 Jan 2021, 18:48

Latin keyboard (115 keys).jpg
Latin keyboard (115 keys).jpg (554.68 KiB) Viewed 537 times
Actually I am using the alphabetic layout map (with a custom kbd driver I made) since 3 years and I really like it, my production on PC has been increase.

The symbol on the arrow keys represent Page Up/Page Down/Home/End.

Fn keys C1-C12 are customizable keys that can be configured with a software, can be any keys we want and even launchable keys that launch program, like what streamdeck do.

The two keys left blank are there because I don't know what to put there.

Thanks for your upcoming feedbacks.

User avatar
Weezer

06 Jan 2021, 20:52

Improvements are only as valuable as the person using the keyboard finds them. What works as an improvement for me or someone else may not work for you because you have a different work flow and different personal preferences.

evokee

06 Jan 2021, 23:08

Weezer wrote:
06 Jan 2021, 20:52
Improvements are only as valuable as the person using the keyboard finds them. What works as an improvement for me or someone else may not work for you because you have a different work flow and different personal preferences.
Critics then ? I also accept that.

Rayndalf

07 Jan 2021, 00:49

What are the benefits of the narrow top row?

Consider splitting the spacebar (to be half backspace and half space). Or turning one of the enter keys into backspace and making the key that is currently backspace delete instead.

evokee

07 Jan 2021, 01:56

> What are the benefits of the narrow top row?
It's how laptop keyboard are designed and I love such design.

> Consider splitting the spacebar..
I cannot doing that since I use the whole spacebar surface to type a space, especially in video game, same for enter keys, those both surface are really intensive zones during game sessions, also programming session.

User avatar
Weezer

07 Jan 2021, 08:02

Well I could give you feedback but it would match my own ideas on what a keyboard layout should be like, and you will probably not agree, like you did not agree with Rayndalf. This is why I said it is a personal preference. For example I do not like ortholinear keyboards and I do not like keyboards that don't use qwerty, but I'm sure you would say these are great benefits to yourself. If you're interested in finding ideas that you may like I recommend you scroll through this thread and see if you can find ideas from other people's favorite layouts viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10821
Last edited by Weezer on 07 Jan 2021, 10:55, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
kbdfr
The Tiproman

07 Jan 2021, 08:18

I'm just wondering in which language you're typing most of the time.
I suppose it won't be Spanish, as I can see no ñ. So what's the use of a ¿ key?

Rayndalf

07 Jan 2021, 09:44

evokee wrote:
07 Jan 2021, 01:56
> What are the benefits of the narrow top row?
It's how laptop keyboard are designed and I love such design.
The only problem with the narrow top row is that it cannot be easily prototyped using mechanical switches (either full size MX style switches or lower profile Kailh Choc switches). Since this probably won't see large scale manufacture (at least in the prototyping phase), you're somewhat reliant on what can be done using off the shelf parts. Unless this is strictly theoretical or used on a touchscreen.
evokee wrote:
07 Jan 2021, 01:56
> Consider splitting the spacebar..
I cannot doing that since I use the whole spacebar surface to type a space, especially in video game, same for enter keys, those both surface are really intensive zones during game sessions, also programming session.
If you prefer an unsplit spacebar that is fine, but I'd still reccomend making backspace and delete more accessible. No use in creating a totally unique layout and keeping the worst part of a QWERTY board (having to lift your entire right hand everytime you make a typing error).

Some other random questions in no particular order:

The blue label on the spacebar implies that Function + Spacebar = Enter(?). Is the only Function key above the Tab key?

What do the two blank keys to the right of spacebar do?

Some if the keys look like layer toggles, how does this board use layers, or are they compose keys of some sort?

Some of the punctuation keys look like ones I've seen on Japanese keyboards. Is this board designed to input a language other than English? Would those keys be better on layers instead or will you be typing different languages frequently?

Does 'show menu' (the key to the right of up arrow) need it's own key? I almost never use this key, is it something you use often? If you don't use it frequently then it might be better on a layer.

Have you actually typed on this alphanumeric layout? Replacing the number row with additional punctuation is a pretty bold move. Again I assume you use layers or a modifier to type closing brackets (I see keys for ( < [ { but not ) > ] })

I'd love to see a picture of your current prototype if you have one.

User avatar
vvp

07 Jan 2021, 11:05

Since you do not have proper thumb clusters then +1 for a split space bar.
Even if you use it in gaming sessions then you probably do not use full width of it with one hand. If so then you can split it at the locations where it is not typically pressed.
Split space bar allows you to map one half of it to something else (e.g. backspace or shift) possibly in a separate layer.
The biggest problem of traditional keyboards is that most precious location of the keyboard space where thumbs rest and where thumbs are the most precise to hit keys is wasted by one big-ass space bar. What a nonsense!

User avatar
depletedvespene

07 Jan 2021, 14:25

Two 2U Enter keys, one on top of another (plus other not as obvious signs)? Sorry, but this reminds me very much of a certain past thread...

evokee

07 Jan 2021, 14:55

Weezer wrote:
07 Jan 2021, 08:02
Well I could give you feedback but it would match my own ideas on what a keyboard layout should be like, and you will probably not agree, like you did not agree with Rayndalf. This is why I said it is a personal preference. For example I do not like ortholinear keyboards and I do not like keyboards that don't use qwerty, but I'm sure you would say these are great benefits to yourself. If you're interested in finding ideas that you may like I recommend you scroll through this thread and see if you can find ideas from other people's favorite layouts viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10821
Yep, nice advice, I will look at other kbd layout.

Else for the ortholinear thing, I cannot say I do not like because I never tried that, if I experiment it for real and I found it bad, I will not keep it, but I want to try it for once and not base my opinion on theory that it should be bad.

evokee

07 Jan 2021, 14:59

kbdfr wrote:
07 Jan 2021, 08:18
I'm just wondering in which language you're typing most of the time.
I suppose it won't be Spanish, as I can see no ñ. So what's the use of a ¿ key?
Indeed, those keys are coming from my old layout that had as objective to support all Latin language, but I finally give it up because I hate accent it should be abolished for all Latin languages lol

So yes, I should remove it as well and let it open for suggestion.
Last edited by evokee on 07 Jan 2021, 16:13, edited 2 times in total.

evokee

07 Jan 2021, 15:32

Rayndalf wrote:
07 Jan 2021, 09:44
evokee wrote:
07 Jan 2021, 01:56
> What are the benefits of the narrow top row?
It's how laptop keyboard are designed and I love such design.
The only problem with the narrow top row is that it cannot be easily prototyped using mechanical switches (either full size MX style switches or lower profile Kailh Choc switches). Since this probably won't see large scale manufacture (at least in the prototyping phase), you're somewhat reliant on what can be done using off the shelf parts. Unless this is strictly theoretical or used on a touchscreen.
evokee wrote:
07 Jan 2021, 01:56
> Consider splitting the spacebar..
I cannot doing that since I use the whole spacebar surface to type a space, especially in video game, same for enter keys, those both surface are really intensive zones during game sessions, also programming session.
If you prefer an unsplit spacebar that is fine, but I'd still reccomend making backspace and delete more accessible. No use in creating a totally unique layout and keeping the worst part of a QWERTY board (having to lift your entire right hand everytime you make a typing error).

Some other random questions in no particular order:

The blue label on the spacebar implies that Function + Spacebar = Enter(?). Is the only Function key above the Tab key?

What do the two blank keys to the right of spacebar do?

Some if the keys look like layer toggles, how does this board use layers, or are they compose keys of some sort?

Some of the punctuation keys look like ones I've seen on Japanese keyboards. Is this board designed to input a language other than English? Would those keys be better on layers instead or will you be typing different languages frequently?

Does 'show menu' (the key to the right of up arrow) need it's own key? I almost never use this key, is it something you use often? If you don't use it frequently then it might be better on a layer.

Have you actually typed on this alphanumeric layout? Replacing the number row with additional punctuation is a pretty bold move. Again I assume you use layers or a modifier to type closing brackets (I see keys for ( < [ { but not ) > ] })

I'd love to see a picture of your current prototype if you have one.
Yes, it's the FN keys that activate the blue labels.
They do nothing, I don't know what to put there.
The layer toggles are working as shift and alt gr.
No, this keyboard is designed for Latin language only, I've put them here in case of we need them and to fill empty keys.

To support CJK Russian and other non latin language, it needs another alphabetic layout I guess, I haven't make them yet, so I don't know if it's enough, would be great to just change the alphabetic layout to switch language and not modifying other layouts.

The show menu is extremely useful when a video game is freezing and you don't have access to your mouse cursor and just arrow keys to shut down the application in task manager, but yes, keeping it just for that would be excessive.
Maybe for linux users that hate the mouse usage, it would be a plus.

With auto completion in most text editor and IDE (visual studio, notepad++), you have just to press the open bracket and the software will automatically create the closed version.
The time to type the closing brackets is over, normally a modern text editor has to offer the solution to automatically close the bracket.
To use number, I always use the numpad for that and because it's like a standard layout to send numbers to a system, ATM, phone, security code device, keypad.
And no, I haven't added this into my driver but I will when I will have time for that.

Nop, I haven't still made the prototype, but I've modified as far as I can my current keyboard to match the layout.
IMG_20210107_152323.jpg
IMG_20210107_152323.jpg (899.76 KiB) Viewed 250 times
Seeing that make me wondering that I often use the volume up/down/mute keys, I should add it to the layout.

Else those blue labels are mouse forward/backward.
a.png
a.png (30.59 KiB) Viewed 232 times
And if you need to type the close bracket, just hold shift while pressing the open bracket.
depletedvespene wrote:
07 Jan 2021, 14:25
Two 2U Enter keys, one on top of another (plus other not as obvious signs)? Sorry, but this reminds me very much of a certain past thread...
Yep, but it would be ugly if I put a big one probably.

Post Reply

Return to “Keyboards”