Unicomp Model M Right Shift Key Issue

Heisenberg122

21 Jul 2021, 03:22

Hi everyone,


I'm having an issue with the right shift key of my Unicomp Model M (Made in 2006) keyboard. Please see the following two videos of the issue I'm having;


https://youtu.be/ftN6wv6JiQM

https://youtu.be/bAhsPxSFJsQ



I made a quick search on the internet and I just realized that I'm not the only one who is having this issue:
https://youtu.be/5Hy5l4H7eX8


Also, I saw another one who is having that issue in the comments of the one ( https://youtu.be/7k9SLK7ZrLo - Typing Demo XL - IBM buckling springs (Unicomp Model M) (ASMR)) of the videos of Chyrosran22
Image


I reported that issue to the Unicomp support line. Then they requested that removing the key and taking pictures of the board side and the bottom side of the key. They told me that they need to be sure if the insert is missing or not. I recorded the videos at the beginning of this post and shared those videos with them more than 10 days ago. Since the time I shared the videos, they've lapsed into silence. There is no response from Unicomp any longer.
Although I write comments asking for any response several times on the ticket but no, nobody is answering the ticket anymore. This is irritating and tiresome behavior. I prefer that they would say something, positive or negative!.
Not responding at all is really irritating!


Anyway, as you can see in the videos, smaller keys such as backspace (2U), ANSI enter key (2.25U), etc don't have this issue.


I suspect that this is the designing issue. So, the length of the right shift key as 2.75U is too long to be stabilized with a kind of plastic insert stabilizer to be used.


If the key is longer than ~2.25U then the wire stabilizer would be better instead of the plastic insert stabilizer I think.


I'm wondering if anybody had that kind of issue on Unicomp buckling spring keyboards?

Or any kind of comment will be appreciated.


Thank you so much in advance.

User avatar
wobbled

21 Jul 2021, 08:46

If its a problem with the right shift where it doesn't depress evenly / is binding on one side then you'll need to remove and likely swap out the plastic insert. Do not use flat heads for this like the YouTube guy suggested. Instead use either one or two q tip ear cleaning thingies, push them into the plastic insert and pull out. It should bring the insert with it. You can experiment with some grease inside the insert to see if it helps binding, but I would recommend getting new inserts entirely

User avatar
fohat
Elder Messenger

21 Jul 2021, 16:48

I have found that the easiest way to remove the insert is to bend a TINY hook (like the letter J) in the end of a paper clip wire. You can hook that just under the bottom edge of the insert and pull it out without scarring the inside cylinder surface.

Since horizontal inserts have the hole centered, you might turn it 180 degrees and see if that makes just enough difference that it works properly. It is possible that the hole was manufactured ever so slightly off-center.

Heisenberg122

22 Jul 2021, 01:18

wobbled wrote:
21 Jul 2021, 08:46
If its a problem with the right shift where it doesn't depress evenly / is binding on one side then you'll need to remove and likely swap out the plastic insert. Do not use flat heads for this like the YouTube guy suggested. Instead use either one or two q tip ear cleaning thingies, push them into the plastic insert and pull out. It should bring the insert with it. You can experiment with some grease inside the insert to see if it helps binding, but I would recommend getting new inserts entirely
Thank you @wobbled I also tried the grease but it didn't work, probably it was the wrong grease (which is being used for my rifles and shotguns :) ). I'll try to find a thinner grease.


fohat wrote:
21 Jul 2021, 16:48
I have found that the easiest way to remove the insert is to bend a TINY hook (like the letter J) in the end of a paper clip wire. You can hook that just under the bottom edge of the insert and pull it out without scarring the inside cylinder surface.

Since horizontal inserts have the hole centered, you might turn it 180 degrees and see if that makes just enough difference that it works properly. It is possible that the hole was manufactured ever so slightly off-center.
Thank you @fohat, that paper clip wire is logical and reasonable. My first try was unsuccessful. The inserts of Unicomp are too firm and tight. I'll try it again with the paper clip wires.


By the way, interestingly (at least to me), an original IBM Model M (SSK) user had the same issue:
https://youtu.be/KjDK78NczCc

Heisenberg122

22 Jul 2021, 17:22

I've downloaded the Technical Reference document for the brand new model f keyboards from the website of @darkcruix : https://www.bucklingspring.com/download ... reference/

For the Removing Stabilizer, there is a very effective way, it worked for me.

Removing Stabilizer:
Image


And also for the key binding problem, there are two methods have been advised to resolve the issue in the document:

Method-1, Lubing the insert with grease.
Method-2, Lift the insert a little bit, about 1mm


Image


Image


I've tried both of them but the problem remains, they didn't solve the problem. My right shift key is still binding.

Although the document has been written for Model F keyboards, you know, the plastic insert parts and the mechanism are very similar to the Model Ms.

User avatar
wobbled

24 Jul 2021, 01:27

If greasing hasn't helped, either buy the following:
https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/INSERT

Or make a new thread asking to buy someones Model M stabiliser. Hell if someone has spares, they'd probably sell for price of shipping.
I've dealt with binding on the last 2 Model M's I worked on (they were e-recycling tier condition)
- right shift key issue, the same as you, sometimes swapping the stab is the only option and will always fix the issue.

Heisenberg122

24 Jul 2021, 17:45

wobbled wrote:
24 Jul 2021, 01:27
If greasing hasn't helped, either buy the following:
https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/INSERT

Or make a new thread asking to buy someones Model M stabiliser. Hell if someone has spares, they'd probably sell for price of shipping.
I've dealt with binding on the last 2 Model M's I worked on (they were e-recycling tier condition)
- right shift key issue, the same as you, sometimes swapping the stab is the only option and will always fix the issue.
Thank you wobbled.

I've placed an order for a few spare inserts and also a spare right shift key from Unicomp. (When I opened up the Unicomp web site, I couldn't resist and ordered a new model M though 8-) )

So, I will replace the insert first and if it doesn't work then both the insert and the key... I'm afraid that if it's because of the axis problem (off-center) of the barrels of the stabilizer side and/or spring side. I hope it's not...

User avatar
fohat
Elder Messenger

24 Jul 2021, 23:15

Sorry that it's late now, but if you are getting spare inserts it is good to nab a couple of the vertical ones, too. They are harder to find, for example the buckling spring typewriters have horizontals but no verticals.

Depending on how far "off" the shaft is, I have successfully used something like a chopstick to move or rotate the insert the tiniest bit (a small fraction of a millimeter) to ease the binding. Remember there are roll, pitch, and yaw and your problem could be any of those. The joy stick maneuver would work best for a "yaw' problem.

Heisenberg122

25 Jul 2021, 00:09

fohat wrote:
24 Jul 2021, 23:15
Sorry that it's late now, but if you are getting spare inserts it is good to nab a couple of the vertical ones, too. They are harder to find, for example the buckling spring typewriters have horizontals but no verticals.

Depending on how far "off" the shaft is, I have successfully used something like a chopstick to move or rotate the insert the tiniest bit (a small fraction of a millimeter) to ease the binding. Remember there are roll, pitch, and yaw and your problem could be any of those. The joy stick maneuver would work best for a "yaw' problem.
Thank you for your reply @fohat. I didn't consider the black (vertical) ones. Since my order has not been fulfilled and shipped yet, I'm going to revise my order.

Unfortunately, I tried to wiggle the insert with a screwdriver. Although I was so careful, I think I damaged the insert a little bit. The edges of the screwdriver left some minor streaks inside the insert. Anyway, I think there is nothing to do for the time being but wait for the delivery of the new inserts and the spare right shift key.

Thanks again for your advice.

Ellipse

27 Jul 2021, 07:10

For stabilized keys getting stuck or hard to press on the stabilized edge, check out the wiggle method described in the manual on the new Model F project web site. Works every time in my experience. Best to gently wiggle the stem and stabilizer pole of the keycap 20 times and 10 times, respectively, as shown in the video there.

Heisenberg122

29 Jul 2021, 08:31

Ellipse wrote:
27 Jul 2021, 07:10
For stabilized keys getting stuck or hard to press on the stabilized edge, check out the wiggle method described in the manual on the new Model F project web site. Works every time in my experience. Best to gently wiggle the stem and stabilizer pole of the keycap 20 times and 10 times, respectively, as shown in the video there.
Thank you @Ellipse , I didn't see that part of the troubleshooting. I'll check and try them out.

Let me add the link and the content here (if anyone is new to the subject and the related project website)

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/manual/


Key binding – 2.25U and larger keys getting stuck. Possible fixes:


Best Method:

you have to do some of the below steps several times in some instances of binding. Do the steps, install the key and test with 10-20 key presses, then remove and do the steps again if needed.

- Start with this step for keys with the stabilizer posts: Gently pinch the affected key’s outer stem/ear and stabilizer insert pole between your thumb and forefinger and wiggle side to side about 20-30 times. Your fingers should be positioned so as to squeeze deeply into the key, as deep as possible, not just at the very end of the key stem. A video on this fix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBgQ9AO1Z_c

- After squeezing, gently wiggle the key post (the part that goes into the stabilizer insert) 10 times in the direction of the left and right sides of the key if you were to look at the key as oriented on a keyboard – seems to eliminate binding when the extreme edges of a key are pressed. Be very gentle as this is the easiest part to break on a key! Do not touch the stabilizer insert itself or add any lubrication to it.

- If it is still stuck but maybe a little better, repeat the prior two steps and test again. Sometimes the two “wings” of the stem get stuck too close together so you have to gently spread them apart maybe a total of 1 mm or so.



Other potential fixes – not necessary or recommended:

- Burnish back side of barrel with spring – use model m nut driver.

- Keep stabilizer insert 1mm above top of barrel and there is no binding. Alternatively maybe add a 1mm piece of foam under side of key where stabilizer insert goes. Example story: “It seems like the left barrel (the empty one) on the space bar was binding a bit. I solved it by cutting a thin foam disk (about 2mm thick) and sticking that into the outer barrel on the bottom of the space bar. This limited the travel just enough to avoid binding. Once that was done, the keyboard was perfect.”

- And one last method that worked: “I did add a little bit of Syncro Superlube and that did it. Thanks!”

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