Topre Ivory or Black/Black?

User avatar
hellothere

25 Oct 2021, 19:47

I'm planning on buying a 45g Topre which may or may not replace my 55g Topre Realforce R2. I have two choices:

* Realforce R2 PFU TKL. I can get it in either black/black or ivory.
* Leopold FC980C full-size. Black/black only.

The PFU is about $15 more expensive, but it has adjustable actuation, which really isn't a big concern for me.

I've seen lots of pics of the black/black. The legends are close to unreadable, but those are pictures and depend highly on my monitors' calibration, which is probably questionable. I was wondering if anyone saw one in person and what they thought of it.

No, I don't want a HHKB. Also, if someone wants to try to sell me their Realforce/Leopold, PM me. I'm really just trying for that 45g goodness. I'm in the US.
Last edited by hellothere on 26 Oct 2021, 20:17, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
wobbled

25 Oct 2021, 20:18

If its easier I could swap you a set of 45g domes for your 55g domes and just swap them into your current realforce
Just let me know 😀
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User avatar
Go-Kart

25 Oct 2021, 20:50

The Black on Black PFU legends are near unreadable in real life. I used one for a few days in a well lit office. Looked cool AF though.

But yeh, you should probably get a white HHKB :mrgreen:

HC514

25 Oct 2021, 23:06

Yeah, assume you won't be able to see black-on-black. The legends are only visible at certain angles.

User avatar
hellothere

25 Oct 2021, 23:56

Thanks, folks.

I'll just repeat it: the reason I don't want an HHKB is because I'm not fond of the layout. I don't really care that the control key is where caps lock normally is, as I've had, oh, around 10 Focus keyboards pass through my hands. I do care about the placement of the backspace/delete key. I could also complain about the location of the FN key, but, again, I've seen a lot of Focus keyboards with split shift keys. Although, an HHKB is about $50 cheaper than the Realforce ...

Rayndalf

26 Oct 2021, 00:07

Embrace chaos and pick up an old JP Realforce on Yahoo auctions.

Yeah, you'll have to proxy it, but even with those fees it'll be cheaper and give you more keys.

User avatar
an_achronism

26 Oct 2021, 11:36

I have the black on black caps from one of my RealForce boards and personally, I think they're terrible, but it isn't just because it's kind of hard to see the legends (which for me is mostly irrelevant because I don't look at legends when I'm using a keyboard anyway; one of my most heavily used boards right now is a blank HHKB Hybrid Type-S). I generally dislike anything black that is designed to be constantly touched because it is 100% definitely going to end up with some sort of finger marks very quickly no matter how clean your hands are.

I've little to no opinion on Leopold but I would love to try a PFU RealForce R2 based on what I've heard about them and my experiences with other Topre stuff.

In terms of key feel, I've got to say, the HHKB Hybrid Type-S beats everything Topre and Topre-adjacent that I've tried so far, though. I guess it must be something to do with all that metal in the RealForce: I get the feeling the steel plate does something to the bottom-out that I'm not too keen on (it's extremely rock solid stable, whereas the HHKB is a crapload of plastic and feels like it in a good way). Point being: 45 g HHKB feels different from 45 g RealForce for some reason or another that seemingly has more to do with the surrounding build than the domes themselves. Although it of course does take a few minutes to adjust to initially, the Backspace/Delete key placement doesn't bother me; I have previously used and liked the layouts of Sun Microsystems boards anyway (which is where they nicked that upper right corner key configuration from for the HHKB).

Findecanor

26 Oct 2021, 15:13

hellothere wrote:
25 Oct 2021, 19:47
The legends are close to unreadable, but those are pictures and depend highly on my monitors' calibration, which is probably questionable.
It's a feature! It keeps other people's sticky fingers away from your precious keyboard. ;)

I've had no problem with the black-on-black PFU legends in normally lit rooms (home and work, but that was a while ago. I've been on other switches for years now) If you can type, you don't normally look at the keys anyway but they are good enough for the few cases when you do.

User avatar
hellothere

26 Oct 2021, 21:16

There's sort-of a second problem that I have with any layout smaller than TKL: while I have a really great number pad, I'm essentially making up for a deficiency in the keyboard. With the HHKB, I'd be losing 25 more keys and I use about 15 of those on a regular basis. Ya, I know there's a function key, but Fn+Down Arrow is not as convenient as hitting just the Page Down button.

User avatar
hellothere

27 Oct 2021, 21:42

I was going to make a joke that I pulled the trigger and bought a gamer Cherry MX brown keyboard, but it just felt a little too forced.

Because I saw that the supply of non-black Topre keyboards was dwindling fast on mechanicalkeyboards.com, I got the "ivory" Realforce R2 PFU TKL. One of my considerations was that the TKL Topre was $60 off list price. The next less expensive 60% Leopold was only $20 off.

So, maybe a good thing? I'll find out in 4 days to a week.

User avatar
Palatino

28 Oct 2021, 13:59

Good choice - it’s a great keyboard. Solid, stylish and well-proportioned. And of course you can toggle the actuation point to suit your mood: pensive? keep it high and floaty; stressed, and you can set it low and hammer away.

User avatar
hellothere

28 Oct 2021, 19:37

Palatino wrote:
28 Oct 2021, 13:59
Good choice - it’s a great keyboard. Solid, stylish and well-proportioned. And of course you can toggle the actuation point to suit your mood: pensive? keep it high and floaty; stressed, and you can set it low and hammer away.
Mmm stressed. I think I need more Alps heavy blue switches. They're, what, 100g switches?

I'm really hoping that the 45g works for me like it worked for me with the Abko I've got. There's such a profound difference in feel between the Abko 55g and 45g, but both are really nice. It would have been nice to try the Topre, Leopold, and HHKB side-by-side at the same weighting, but I don't want to abuse mechanicalkeyboards.com's return policy. Now, Amazon might be a different story :D.

Riverman

28 Oct 2021, 21:59

I have an older variable force Realforce 103UW and the newer silent Mac version of the R2, which I converted to uniform 45g with the domes out of a Realforce RGB. They're both wonderful keyboards. I pulled out my old Apple Extended Keyboard II yesterday to test out a couple of ADB cables, and I was surprised at how heavy those Alps switches felt compared to 45g Topre switches. It's still a great keyboard, but I found myself making a lot of typing mistakes since I wasn't used to having to press the keys so hard. I briefly had a black on black Realforce, and I agree with the others that it's nearly unreadable, even in a fairly well-lit office, where I had it. I replaced it with the ivory/off-white 103UW, and that was a huge improvement, even though I got a few questions about why I had such an old keyboard. :)

User avatar
hellothere

29 Oct 2021, 23:24

They sent it free 2nd day UPS. That's really nice of them.

I've played around with it for about 10 minutes. Impressions:

* MUCH quieter. I've determined that I'm happier with a solid THOCK or as little sound as possible. I'm typing this on a Keychron K8 with Gateron blue switches. I'm relatively OK with the feel of the Gaterons. I seriously hate the high pitched click, though.
* Yes, I do feel that the change between the 55g and 45g Realforce is just about as significant as I had felt with the Abko 55g and 45g.

I've heard a couple places mention that the Realforce 55g is much snappier than the ones with lower weightings. I can agree with that, even after only 10 minutes.

I pulled out my BTC 5100c to check again. I can now agree a bit more with folks saying that the BTC dome with slider feels a bit like a Topre, but the Topre is much, much smoother. I still lean toward the Topre switches feeling a lot like Alps cream damped.

User avatar
wobbled

29 Oct 2021, 23:27

Now give it 10 years and those 45g domes will ascend to glorious 55g :D

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Go-Kart

31 Oct 2021, 07:16

wobbled wrote:
29 Oct 2021, 23:27
Now give it 10 years and those 45g domes will ascend to glorious 55g :D
Am I reading this correctly? Topre get heavier with age?

User avatar
Muirium
µ

31 Oct 2021, 10:49

I’ve heard this, but have not found it to be apparent in my Topre boards. My HHKB’s from 2014 and is by far the most used. Still a nice light, gentle keyboard compared to MX black. While my much less used 55g Realforce is still a good bit heavier. No noticeable difference even between intensely used (vowels) vs. less used keys.

If it’s meant to be just pure age, then it’s not evident versus my non-Topre boards either.

User avatar
hellothere

31 Oct 2021, 17:03

I wouldn't mind if the feel was a little heavier. My "perfect" weighting would probably be around 50g.

It's a really nice feeling keyboard and I can type faster on it, with decent accuracy. I've mentioned elsewhere that I can type pretty fast on low weighted key switches, but my accuracy goes down by a high percentage. Also, the keycaps do help. The Topre has really nice large "fat" legends.

I don't know how to explain this properly, but if I was using the Apex Pro, it felt a little like it was "unstable" for people who can't type, like me. The PFU is right at the edge and has, so far, always stuck on track. That's essentially the reason I prefer the IBM Model M over the Model F. Then again, I've yet to play with anything but Model F XTs.

User avatar
hellothere

05 Nov 2021, 17:51

Just a summary, after a week.

It's a nice keyboard. It's nicer than a lot of the ones I've been hanging on to just to see if I could find another that could surpass their niceness level. That means I'll have a bunch of keyboards that I'll be listing for sale, as time permits.

I kinda wonder what this keyboard feels like without the silencing dampers. I'm missing a bit of the feel that I have with the 55g Realforce and it's not just the better "snapiness." I might also be missing a bit on the sound, too.

User avatar
Go-Kart

06 Nov 2021, 11:13

From my experience, there's no difference in tactility between silenced and unsilenced Topre. The bottom out is different, as you would expect. The sound difference is interesting. I like both silenced and unsilenced. The lower pitched silenced Topre sound signature is particularly pleasing on a decent desk mat.

User avatar
hellothere

08 Nov 2021, 18:39

Hmm. I do have a big desk mat that I used when I was testing a mouse replacement for my trackballs (I'm still using trackballs). I'll give that a shot.

Anyone interested in a lightly used 55g Realforce R2? I might have it on ebay in a week or two.

User avatar
adhoc

09 Nov 2021, 12:12

Go-Kart wrote:
31 Oct 2021, 07:16
wobbled wrote:
29 Oct 2021, 23:27
Now give it 10 years and those 45g domes will ascend to glorious 55g :D
Am I reading this correctly? Topre get heavier with age?
Rubber stiffens with time, yeah.

User avatar
Maledicted

09 Nov 2021, 15:18

I'm late, but I love the blacked-out Realforce boards. The legends are almost unreadable, even in great lighting, but they look great. I like the look so much that I wish Ellipse's gray buckling spring caps were darker.

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