Help With IBM Model M Springs

swazi

25 Oct 2021, 22:09

Hello,
I recently discovered the Model M and I'm very interested in getting one. I really like the tactile feel of clicky loud switches and the Model M seems like it's right up my ally.

There are a couple of concerns though: one being the amount of force of the springs. I've heard from a couple places that the spring force is ~70cN. I can't seem to find any info on the kinds of springs they use or any spring related mods. Could I reduce the spring force while preserving it's sound and feel? Can I use regular Cherry MX springs?

That brings me to my other concern: the sound of the keyboard. I read that when people do the bolt mod to the Model M that it somehow dampens the spring sound. I was wondering if anyone had a similar experience? If that is a thing, then are there any remedies to this?

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wobbled

25 Oct 2021, 22:18

First of all, Welcome to Deskthority!

For the money Model M's go for they're pretty much the best for that price range (good taste!)
Aftermarket springs seemingly don't exist for the Model M, only ellipse to my knowledge has recreated the springs for use in the Model F project, but I don't think they were altered in any way to reduce force / weight. And no you wont be able to use Cherry MX springs, they are a completely different switch in pretty much every conceivable way.

Now for mods, bolt modding really is only to prolong the life of the board and often does create a 'crisper' key stroke than before the mod if it was suffering from plastic rivet failure. Really the feeling isn't any different to a brand new model M that has just been taken out of its packaging.
The mod you're likely after for spring sound dampening is the floss mod which is effectively stuffing the inside spring coil with a strand of Oral-B's super floss or similar material. This mod does definitely work and completely gets rid of the 'pinging' you get from both Model M's and F's

swazi

25 Oct 2021, 23:08

Wow, Thank you for such a fast reply!

That's good to know about the springs. I'll look into ellipse but maybe I can measure them and get a lighter weight spring from McMaster-Carr or something. Do some experimenting.

Also good to know about the bolt mod. I'll definitely be doing this when I get my Model M. And thanks for the mod recommendation! I haven't heard of this until now. I'm actually looking to keep the spring sounds, and if anything, amplify them. I want to make an overall loud keyboard with loud spring sounds. I just really enjoy how unique the spring sounds are with the buckling spring keyboards.

And thanks for the warm welcome :D

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Wazrach

25 Oct 2021, 23:35

According to this old Geekhack thread, it is possible to use Model F springs on a Model M: geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77902.0

I don't think it will be worth your while. At that rate, you may as well just get a Model F - because they're better in almost every way.

Still, before you worry about this sort of thing, you should at least try a Model M first before you look into swapping springs and bolt modding. Spring-swapping must be done carefully, otherwise you risk damaging springs or creating an inconsistent keyfeel across the board if the coil-end orientations are not uniform. I can't comment on bolt-modding because I haven't been brave enough to do it, but it's a time-consuming and delicate task, as far as I know.

micmil

25 Oct 2021, 23:52

It's important to understand that the spring tension on buckling spring switches does not mean what it does in linear spring design switches. The way the springs collapse gives a much lower apparent resistance than linear springs do. If you've ever used something heavily clicky like Box Jades you'll have an idea. The actual resistance while typing doesn't feel anywhere near 70g even though that's the maximum resistance.

In real world terms, the only two keyboards I use much these days are a 45g Topre board and a Unicomp New Model M. Basically, when my RSI-encrusted wrists get tired of one I switch to the other. The key weight doesn't really matter because they don't feel appreciably different in terms of resistance.

Bolt mod will probably change the sound somewhat, but I can't imagine the sound really being dampened. Most of the noise is from the spring clacking its housing. I imagine over-tightening the bolts could lead to the two plates being tight enough against each other to dampen the sound, but I don't think they need to be quite that torqued.

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Yasu0

28 Oct 2021, 23:34

Start with whatever inexpensive good condition used unicomp M you can find for a deal. They are pretty good, you will like it.

Then stop. Otherwise you will end up with a dozen M's. Or keep going I guess is an option.

F's and M's don't feel different in weight to me.

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Yasu0

23 Nov 2021, 18:08

Springs should be inexpensive from industrial supply houses too..

I take what I said back. I busted out an old F since my last post. and been daily-ing it. It does feel lighter than the M does.

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