deskthority

Which one of the HHKB's would you say are the best out of the ones you've tried. Classic, Pro, Pro 2?

I've only tried the Hybrid Type S. It's very light, compact, and the switches have a soft rounded tactility with a plush feeling bottoming out. It doesn't feel as harsh on my fingers as the Realforce R2.

Tried Pro 2, Pro 2 and Pro 2. Think my fav’s Pro 2, but it’s close.

Tried a few Realforces too, but all originals, not the subsequent generations. Like the light domes, don’t like the plate. HHKB is my sweet spot. Sounds like it is for you, too.

I've tried a couple of Pro 2s, a few Pro 2 Type-S and a Hybrid Type-S. All the Pro 2s have been a little stiffer than the newest model, the Hybrid, not to their detriment mind. All share that top-tier Topre key feel that can only be delivered by a HHKB's plastic chassis. My Hybrid Type-S is lighter, with the tactility less-pronounced to what I was accustomed to, but I still put it next to the other HHKBs I've owned for key feel.

The silencing rings make a favourable difference in key feel, as well as timbre, in my opinion.

A key that's especially important to me is Return. I hit that key with the emphasis and urgency of "Done!" The Return key is especially juicy sounding on my Type-S and always has been. It's got that THWOCK you hear in a good tennis serve, unanswered. I've always relished that on this board!

I really missed that on my initially undamped black model. When I took it apart to add the rings, I made sure to lube all three stabs—Left Shift, Space and Return—which really did the trick. Its big left Shift is now just as THWOCK commanding as my beloved Type-S's Return, though Shift is a very different psychological beast for me! Return is where it counts, and it delivers. Man that key's umami!

I have been thinking about saving for another HHKB, even if I have to get it secondhand. I am super curious about the classic and the Pros.

I wish we had keyboard-a-con where people could meet and try out all of these cool boards!

Pro 1 > Hybrid > Pro 2 > Classic > KB01/02 (currently own at least one of each)

Pro 1 is easily my favourite, the case is thinner and creaks less than it's near identical twin the Pro 2, the domes have all stiffened nicely by now to anywhere between 50 & 60g, and they are often so worn down that lubing the rails barely makes a difference. A board that simply keeps getting better with age, and for some reason always sounds the best to my ears.

Hybrid (type S) is second for me, it has lubed stabs out of the box, really impressive bluetooth life & range, easily replaceable batteries, PBT spacebar, a more UV resistant case, and actually has the option for a black type s model.

Pro 2 is 'good', I've owned them for years. It's essentially just a Pro 1 with a slightly bigger case (and creakier) that allowed for the addition of a USB hub (that unfortunately doesn't work with newer power hungry devices) but can admittedly be handy for plugging in a usb stick, dongle, or mouse receiver. The beauty of the Pro 2 is the mods you can do to it that make it much more enjoyable e.g. silencing, hasu controllers, lubing, PBT spacebars, and more recently third party cases.

The newer 'classic' model is probably my least favourite out of the topres, and that is simply because it's not really anything special, and isn't capable of anything the older Pro 2 can't already do. It does however work very nicely in a Norbauer Heavy Grail.

I always feel bad putting the PD-KB01/02 last, but in reality the switches aren't spectacular even after lubing. It is however a very cool collectors piece, and a nice reminder of the HHKBs roots.

JCMax wrote: ↑

17 May 2022, 22:18

I wish we had keyboard-a-con where people could meet and try out all of these cool boards!

I can't speak to what keyboard delights will be here but there is this scheduled.

Muirium wrote: ↑

17 May 2022, 14:29

Tried Pro 2, Pro 2 and Pro 2. Think my fav’s Pro 2, but it’s close.

Tried a few Realforces too, but all originals, not the subsequent generations. Like the light domes, don’t like the plate. HHKB is my sweet spot. Sounds like it is for you, too.

If you don't like the plate, whole keyboard is practically unusable...
Best solution would be to sell it and get another hhkb!

Muirium wrote: ↑

17 May 2022, 15:26

A key that's especially important to me is Return. I hit that key with the emphasis and urgency of "Done!" The Return key is especially juicy sounding on my Type-S and always has been. It's got that THWOCK you hear in a good tennis serve, unanswered. I've always relished that on this board!

I really missed that on my initially undamped black model. When I took it apart to add the rings, I made sure to lube all three stabs—Left Shift, Space and Return—which really did the trick. Its big left Shift is now just as THWOCK commanding as my beloved Type-S's Return, though Shift is a very different psychological beast for me! Return is where it counts, and it delivers. Man that key's umami!

Ooooh, I love tennis, I like how you compared it to serve sound, sweet

Go-Kart wrote: ↑

18 May 2022, 05:35

JCMax wrote: ↑

17 May 2022, 22:18

I wish we had keyboard-a-con where people could meet and try out all of these cool boards!

I can't speak to what keyboard delights will be here but there is this scheduled.

IF ONLY I LIVED IN THE UK!!!

It's cool. I was half joking. It would still be nice to be able to find a place to try out these $200+ keyboards without having to buy and resell.

I'm also curious about the Leopold FC660C. I hear the steel back plate makes it feel more solid. But my Real-force also has that and I think contributes to it lacking the plush bottoming out feeling of my HHKB. I'm thinking it would feel similar to that. In which case HHKB is probably going to be my de facto for Topre. Of course I won't know til' I actually try one.

phinix wrote: ↑

18 May 2022, 11:56

Muirium wrote: ↑

17 May 2022, 14:29

Tried Pro 2, Pro 2 and Pro 2. Think my fav’s Pro 2, but it’s close.

Tried a few Realforces too, but all originals, not the subsequent generations. Like the light domes, don’t like the plate. HHKB is my sweet spot. Sounds like it is for you, too.

If you don't like the plate, whole keyboard is practically unusable...
Best solution would be to sell it and get another hhkb!

I'm toying with the idea of acquiring some variety of full-size RF and getting an FR4 plate made for it. I'm sure there would be others that'd be interested in such a thing. Pretty sure Anachronism had a similar idea.

The trouble with that idea is that size matters. What works on 60% may well be too bendy on a larger format. Carbon fibre is a different material to the HHKB’s ‘lil ABS case though, so maybe you’re onto something. The more different, the less satisfying the comparison, however.

Wait! You don’t already have a Realforce!?

hmmm

I briefly owned a full-size black R2, but the bottom out really wasn't for me; returned it swiftly. I didn't care for it's looks either. I like the white R2 aesthetic more but I think R1s in any shade look prettier - gotta love a big forehead!

87U is a timeless look. Those R2s are going to look older, sooner than the originals, I think. Much like a bondai blue iMac looks now compared to a Snow White design language, classic Mac. Neither one is modern, but they wear their ages very differently.

I don’t hate the solid steel Realforce plate anchoring the Topre key-feel, by the way. I just don’t prefer it. Must admit I quite like them being so different, as it means I get a real contrast when I pull out the 55g Realforce for a ride.

Muirium wrote: ↑

18 May 2022, 22:56

87U is a timeless look. Those R2s are going to look older, sooner than the originals, I think. Much like a bondai blue iMac looks now compared to a Snow White design language, classic Mac. Neither one is modern, but they wear their ages very differently.

I love the Ivory R2 I got but don't want it turn that deep nicotine yellow as it ages.

wobbled wrote: ↑

17 May 2022, 22:35

Pro 1 > Hybrid > Pro 2 > Classic > KB01/02 (currently own at least one of each)

Pro 1 is easily my favourite, the case is thinner and creaks less than it's near identical twin the Pro 2, the domes have all stiffened nicely by now to anywhere between 50 & 60g, and they are often so worn down that lubing the rails barely makes a difference. A board that simply keeps getting better with age, and for some reason always sounds the best to my ears.

Hybrid (type S) is second for me, it has lubed stabs out of the box, really impressive bluetooth life & range, easily replaceable batteries, PBT spacebar, a more UV resistant case, and actually has the option for a black type s model.

So what is it about the Pro 1 that makes you prefer it to the Hybrid? If I get another HHKB, I am either going to do the Pro 1 or the Classic. Do the keys feel any different/better?

As an fyi, you can buy some UV protectant for plastics to ensure the white/ivory plastics maintain their original color and don't yellow over time.

Sweet!!! Basically sunscreen for your keyboard.

E3E wrote: ↑

19 May 2022, 05:07

As an fyi, you can buy some UV protectant for plastics to ensure the white/ivory plastics maintain their original color and don't yellow over time.

What about the discussion here a couple years back, where some folks claimed that exposing your yellowed plastic to UV light would bleach it back to beige or white? I've personally been avoiding the whole retrobrite thing because of the lack of credible info on the subject. And especially because I don't want to damage something in a way that can't be undone. I'm *not* trying to start another lube or wax war, and I know this isn't the place for a big off-topic discussion, but it would be nice to know who and what to believe.

Polecat wrote: ↑

19 May 2022, 05:45

E3E wrote: ↑

19 May 2022, 05:07

As an fyi, you can buy some UV protectant for plastics to ensure the white/ivory plastics maintain their original color and don't yellow over time.

What about the discussion here a couple years back, where some folks claimed that exposing your yellowed plastic to UV light would bleach it back to beige or white? I've personally been avoiding the whole retrobrite thing because of the lack of credible info on the subject. And especially because I don't want to damage something in a way that can't be undone. I'm *not* trying to start another lube or wax war, and I know this isn't the place for a big off-topic discussion, but it would be nice to know who and what to believe.

Retrobrite works fine, I've done many OG kecyaps and PC cases frolm 90s with hydrogen peroxide and sun bath for 6 hours:)

So what is it about the Pro 1 that makes you prefer it to the Hybrid? If I get another HHKB, I am either going to do the Pro 1 or the Classic. Do the keys feel any different/better?

I prefer the pro 1 because the domes age in the best possible way. They are still a smooth switch but have additional weight and snappy tactility. The Hybrid obviously has the potential to be just as good in a few years when the domes mature, but they are a bit too light for my liking out of the box and I make too many mistakes with it.

Pro 1s also have the nicest case profile imo, because of the lack of a usb hub it is thinner which also means it creaks less as there is less dead space inside, overall feels sturdier.

As for the classic, it wouldn't be a bad choice due to the improved plastics which in theory shouldn't yellow over time. But honestly you'd probably be better off with a cheap Pro 2, or a Pro 1 if you somehow find one

Polecat wrote: ↑

19 May 2022, 05:45

E3E wrote: ↑

19 May 2022, 05:07

As an fyi, you can buy some UV protectant for plastics to ensure the white/ivory plastics maintain their original color and don't yellow over time.

What about the discussion here a couple years back, where some folks claimed that exposing your yellowed plastic to UV light would bleach it back to beige or white? I've personally been avoiding the whole retrobrite thing because of the lack of credible info on the subject. And especially because I don't want to damage something in a way that can't be undone. I'm *not* trying to start another lube or wax war, and I know this isn't the place for a big off-topic discussion, but it would be nice to know who and what to believe.

As far as the UV bleaching back to white, there's a thread around here someplace where I said I'd test. I used an Apple Standard Keyboard (M0116) primarily because Apple keyboards are, in my experience, difficult to retr0bright. However, I do live in a desert where we have UV intensity alerts even when it's cloudy, so I'm in the perfect place.

I taped up a small section -- maybe a couple cm/in -- as the "no-sun" control, and laid the keyboard out in the sun for an entire week. It did work, but it was an extremely small difference. If you laid it out in the sun for a month, that might be the trick, but I'd get concerned about the plastic becoming more brittle. At least it didn't melt.

hellothere wrote: ↑

19 May 2022, 19:02

As far as the UV bleaching back to white, there's a thread around here someplace where I said I'd test. I used an Apple Standard Keyboard (M0116) primarily because Apple keyboards are, in my experience, difficult to retr0bright. However, I do live in a desert where we have UV intensity alerts even when it's cloudy, so I'm in the perfect place.

I taped up a small section -- maybe a couple cm/in -- as the "no-sun" control, and laid the keyboard out in the sun for an entire week. It did work, but it was an extremely small difference. If you laid it out in the sun for a month, that might be the trick, but I'd get concerned about the plastic becoming more brittle. At least it didn't melt.

Thanks, I appreciate having a credible answer on the subject. So do we know what actually causes the yellowing? Presumably it's not UV if that has a bleaching effect, however minimal. Heat? I know, this should probably be moved to or continued at a less-OT place.

Search for retrobright any place you like and the bit about fire retardant ions moving within the plastic when exposed to UV is what you’re interested in.

Besides, there’s several retrobright threads a DT search would find you if you care to ask, on topic.

I’m against the process myself. I do, however, believe that it works (plenty of photographic evidence) and can last for years. The trouble is the side effects. It’s a lottery, with variables within the plastic you can’t control, as well as in the parameters of your own process. Even the way you store the item afterwards has effects, including at least one well photographed complete reversal of the process while stored in box, in darkness! It’s not magic, it’s a hack.

The things I’d like to use it on are too nice to want to risk. So I don’t.

Yep, I've had many boards reyellow over time (which is why, when I've got a board that's not yellowed, I take preventative measures, ie the UV protectant spray). Usually, it's always to a more subtle degree than the original yellowing, but it does revert.

For plastics that were originally a shade grey, I notice that the yellowing or RB (or both) actually lightens the original color. Any greys, especially subtle shades, get bleached by the process. Not streaking, but a lighter shade than the original.

Yeah, even if you store it air-tight, in the dark, it will reyellow, and especially if it is exposed to heat. Anecdotal, but that's been my experience.

There's also an example of a cable that had yellowing, and I retrobrighted it, the yellowing faded but then came back, then I actually use a fine abrasive to remove the surface layer.

The yellowing still reappeared! So, the bit about flame retardants migrating to the surface, ie the damage to the plastic/rubber being more than superficial, seems true in some cases.

I recently painted the case on my HHKB 2 as it wasn't responding to my half-arsed retrobrite attempt. Having said that the space bar did come up fairly well.

I've had success previously with retrobrite, here a link to my documentation: https://www.wickensonline.co.uk/rc2012s ... andy-wp-3/

May as well just embrace the yellow
Funnily enough my Pro 1 is as white as a new hybrid or pro classic thanks to being in a box most of it's life, I've been topping him up on UV protection spray every couple weeks just because naturally white Pro 1s are pretty hard to come by.

Come on then, Wobbled; give more than a flash of an ankle!

Urbancamo’s paint job is tasty! Wobbly’s Snow White Pro may be too, for all we know, but I’m sure I’ve seen that mellow yellow Pro 2 somewhere else before…

I'm old enough to get the Banana Jr. reference. Also, FWIW, I have a Mac SE in the corner that's approximately the same shade as the above pic.

There are a LOT of ways you can do retr0bright. I'll also second that heat causes the reaction to happen faster. I'll also say that you probably should use the long, mad scientist, gloves and maybe even a chemical-resistant apron. I always get a little on my arms or hands and it hurts. A lot. At one point, I got a big dollop on my foot and that turned into a chemical burn because I didn't feel it until too late. Yup; there's a delay between you getting it on your skin and feeling it.

I've now painted two Apple keyboards -- one had deep scratches and uneven yellowing and the other just had uneven yellowing -- and I'm happy with the results.

I apologize for the hijack. I'll mention that I'd like to try an HHKB next to my Realforce R2. That's more on-topic, right?

Go-Kart wrote: ↑

22 May 2022, 09:04

Come on then, Wobbled; give more than a flash of an ankle!

OK but only 4u!