deskthority

XMIT wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2022, 21:28

Meanwhile, I printed front legends for my board.

IMG_4083.jpg

I also put Alps SKCM Cream Damped switches in this board. Next step is to put latching switches under the two Lock keys, like the Symbolics original.

WHAT a beauty this is! It is always nice to get a typing example on video (if you have time). I know there are already a bunch out there, but I can't get enough of these boards. I have cream dampened ones in an AEKII but this board just sounds completely different (yes - I'd say - much better)

I'm going to spend so much money on this

Guys, I have some bad news. After some more extensive tests, I have run into an unexpected problem. Without going into technical details, I am not able to precisely mill the mount in the center of keycaps. I tried to get the deviations ≤0.05mm but no matter how hard I try, the best result is ≈0.2mm. That may sound like a small difference but it is clearly visible. One of the immediate consequences is that my keycaps do not have walls with the same thickness. Instead of heaving 2mm on all sides, I have, for instance, 1.8mm and 2.2mm—this is something clearly visible and, more importnatly, it may affect the function. If two such keycaps meet side by side and both are off-center in the opposite directions, they can actually stratch each other when pressed.

The trouble is that it is not something that can be easily fixed or avoided (at least not with the equipment I have). The problem is consistency and there seem to be just too many variables in play (material shrinkage and expansion of both the moulds and the casted keycaps and the fact that the clusters are held by a fixture-in-fixture which add some imprecision). Therefore, I am cancelling ‘keycaps as products’ on my web and continue just with the Alps-only Keymacs keyboards.

On the other hand, it is not all bad news: I am still able to make legends with the new technique and cast the Alps stems as before, it is just a matter of one more resin casting. I will use the technique to make custom legends on Keymacs keyboard, including the legend on the grey function keys that have been blank so far. I have some progress in this direction and will post in the Keymacs keyboard thread.

Thanks a ton for all the effort you put into this so far. I know that these things are a tough pill to swallow, when you already feel you are there.
Your keycaps are insanely great! Actually, all of your products are insanely great.
This message is also the cause, why I have so much trust in your products - you won't sell sub-optimal results.
Thank You!

What he said.

And if you’re looking for soul killing sharks whose idea of a once-in-year splurge on a full keyset is $100, then I also say hi.

I think this thread deserves an update. You have probably noticed from my Keymacs keyboard thread that I have finally fine-tuned the new process and I am able to make full Symbolics as well as arbitrary legends on my keys. That is the good news, I am really excited about that because I have put substantial effort (and cash) in it.

So far, I have made about three full sets and that gave me some estimation of the manufacturing difficulty. And this is the bad news. It is slow as hell. The keycaps with legends are actually triple shots (the first shot being the keycap profile, the second one being the legend and the third one being the stem) and each such a key requires three rounds of resin casting and three rounds of machining, separated by hand processing that includes repeated cleanings, soaking in separators, manual deburring with micro tools under a microscope, … Considering the fact that the silicone moulds must be repeatedly recreated, the average time spent on making a single keycap is more than 1 hour (the cure and machining times excluded). This, of course, is insane. The conclusion is that there is absolutely no way I can turn this process into even marginally profitable keycap-making service. The only option for me is to keep the Keymacs project as it is (keycaps only as a part of a full keyboard kit). Sorry for giving you false hopes earlier but I clearly underestimated the difficulty of the process. I guess I have been seduced by the dark side of the keycaps.

Would it be possible for you to partner with a keycap manufacturer so they mass-produce the keycaps based on your drawings? I understand that the sound may not quite be the same because of material and thickness limitations, but nevertheless...

engr wrote: ↑

18 Mar 2023, 22:38

Would it be possible for you to partner with a keycap manufacturer so they mass-produce the keycaps based on your drawings? I understand that the sound may not quite be the same because of material and thickness limitations, but nevertheless...

I am not really sure there is a room for another profile on the market, the initial investments are very high. Especially considering ALPS, I think it is just not economically viable. If I were interested in standard ANSI/ISO, I would just buy Tai-Haos or wait for another DCS group buy.

lispnick wrote: ↑

19 Mar 2023, 00:04

If I were interested in standard ANSI/ISO, I would just buy Tai-Haos or wait for another DCS group buy.

They don't sound the same. Tall profile+thick walls (+polyurethane?) give your keycaps a really unique sound signature.

Since this is not directly related to lisp keyboards, I will post it here. I made a quick sound comparison of the keycaps on MX clones. In particular, I have used a hand-wired keyboard I built a couple of years ago with 1st gen. NK_ Creams:

Click and Thock. It's just the case to say.

So, guys, it is nearly the end of the year and it is time to utter something positive, right? I have been working on improving the keycap-making process because I still want to make keycaps with milled stems. It is the best possible way in terms of the versatility. It seems I have resolved the issues with precision and I have already made a couple of keycap sets for Keymacs keyboards that are made completely with the new technique. In the end, the process is not as simple as I originally hoped for but it is not too complicated either. More tests and tweaking are needed before I re-announce keycap sets as a product, though. In the meantime, you can enjoy my new manufacturing video:
Obviously, I cannot offer this a service because there is always a possibility to damage keycaps but I think it is a nice suggestion for those who have small CNCs and a plenty of time…