HHKB for work use?

[LambdaCore]

I got a laptop (first new laptop I’ve bought in almost a decade!) for work, and I was wondering how good a Bluetooth HHKB might do the trick when plugged in. I don’t intend to use it for anything other than work, for a coding boot camp I’m attending soon and maybe EXTREMELY light gaming on my downtime so I figure the HHKB should do the trick. This one I’m looking at has an FN key where ctrl should be along with a dipswitch to uh… switch it to ctrl, so learning the layout won’t be a massive pain, losing f keys will though.

[davkol]

I'm probably the perfect target audience for OG HHKB, as an *nix and emacs user, but I actually don't like the layout.

The Control and Backspace/Delete placements are fine. No complaints there. At least nothing major.

The 60% form factor would have been fine, if

1. modern software, influenced mostly by IBM and Microsoft, didn't expect at least a 75% keyboard;
2. the keyboard didn't have an oversized spacebar with entirely idiotic Fn-key placement.

Actually, no. Even the OG HHKB expected *nix users to reach for the Meta key with about the same stupid placement to type special symbols.

I wouldn't mind the JP model, but I already have an equivalent realforce… and a $70 GK66 does the job too.

(Leaving aside the whole issue with the standard legacy non-split layout.)

[LambdaCore]

The one I’m looking at actually IS a Japanese model, it’s one I’m interested in because the layout is far less conservative with the space and uses just about every inch of the board! I’d agree with you though, not having F keys sounds like a pain….

Main problem I have are f keys and the single unit backspace. The latter I’ve gotten used to before, especially since it’s right at the end, the former I could get used to if the fan layer accesses the f keys when I hit the number keys. That might seem obvious, but keyboard fn layers are the Wild West of layers and are never consistent

[Muirium]

I’ve only typed a million or so words on my HHKB, so what would I know?

All the keys of a TKL are on there, once you learn the Fn layer. (A layer you can redesign entirely if you use Hasu’s controller on the Pro 2 models.) For me and many people, the HHKB has the Fn layer all other keyboards must obey! Fn + number keys is all obvious and correct, the arrow keys and navigation cluster is the real joy of the thing. I even copy that arrangement on my Beamspring, as it’s what I’m so used to everywhere.

So you’re getting an HHKB JP then? Pro 2? I’ve never tried one, but I’d be wary of their JIS specific modifiers and the offbeat staggering.

[Go-Kart]

For me and many people, the HHKB has the Fn layer all other keyboards must obey!

I'm one of the many people. I do not like small form factor boards. I prefer full size for work use ...BUT, HHKB, is different. I've found the fn layer layout is particularly intuitive.

I don't go into my work's offices often. But when I do, it's always the HHKB. Besides, pretty sure taking my F in again would get me shot

[Muirium]

Well, you know what a genuine IBM 3278 solenoid is like now. Perhaps that would get you impaled in murderous rage!

[JCMax]

The HHKB Hybrid I've got works great for me! Although I do prefer to use wired connection most of the time. When that has not been available it works just fine with Bluetooth.

I'm not allowed to take it to where I work. But when I change jobs it will probably be my go-to keyboard. I got the quiet Type-S.

The layout did take me some time to getting used to. But after I did, it felt more comfortable to me than the standard ANSI layout. It minimized finger movements. It keeps the most used modifier keys around the same three rows in the main body. So, I actually prefer the Fn key with the split Shift key now. Hell, I even prefer the Ctrl and Backspace locations on it too!

[Muirium]

I actually prefer the Fn key with the split Shift key now. Hell, I even prefer the Ctrl and Backspace locations on it too!

One of us! One of us!

[davkol]

the layout is far less conservative with the space and uses just about every inch of the board

Quite the contrary. The OG HHKB tried to conserve the minimalist layout of keyboards like Apple M0110.

I understand the rationale, sort of. The base layouts had fewer than 60 keys and each vendor added dozens more keys (along with a proprietary protocol) in that formative time period, while true greybeards could do the job with just control characters (hence the Control key).

But unless you live in an ASCII terminal, use a Mac or Chrome[OS] with a mouse (or a trackpad nowadays, or some abomination in-between), where you need only a handful common hotkeys, that ship has sailed.

I’d agree with you though, not having F keys sounds like a pain….

It depends what you do. Some software expects them, along with easy access to navigation keys or even a numpad.

For me, having to use a layer is just a minor annoyance most of the time… Well, it depends on accessibility of that layer. That's the problem though. OG HHKB's Meta (or Fn) placement simply sucks, compared to thumb keys close to the middle (or a palm key too, if you wish). Hence the HHKB JP.

Then there are times when I fire up some old game (or other software) that absolutely requires function keys or navigation keys, and I can't be arsed to set up a workaround in my custom keymap.

Main problem I have are f keys and the single unit backspace. The latter I’ve gotten used to before, especially since it’s right at the end, the former I could get used to if the fan layer accesses the f keys when I hit the number keys. That might seem obvious, but keyboard fn layers are the Wild West of layers and are never consistent

The point of getting the JP version is that you can remap "everything", whether it's in the OS, in hasu controller, or I've seen mentions that HHKB Hybrid can be quite extensively remapped too.

So for example my first JIS realforce keymap was: Caps lock as Backspace (and Backspace as Delete), Henkan&Muhenkan both as AltGr, Kana as Fn… Control was left in place in the corner, because I could press it with the edge of my palm.

You can do a similar permutation on the HHKB JP too.

[LambdaCore]

Quite the contrary. The OG HHKB tried to conserve the minimalist layout of keyboards like Apple M0110.

Should have mentioned, this one is a Hybrid I believe!

I understand the rationale, sort of. The base layouts had fewer than 60 keys and each vendor added dozens more keys (along with a proprietary protocol) in that formative time period, while true greybeards could do the job with just control characters (hence the Control key).

But unless you live in an ASCII terminal, use a Mac or Chrome[OS] with a mouse (or a trackpad nowadays, or some abomination in-between), where you need only a handful common hotkeys, that ship has sailed.

Yeah, unfortunately the last 60% I used I hated as a result, the FN layer wasn’t the best and it felt extremely clunky. This seem, at least the hybrids, do seem like a better trade off and I do need something small.

Ideally I’d want the Siig Minitouch layout, but I don’t care for the dome with slider models, the Bluetooth helps greatly and as cool a layout as the board is, this isn’t an at home setup where taking 30 minutes to set up my keyboard is acceptable. That’s either: most or a decent chunk of down time, and or I missed valuable time I had to chart or missed a class.

It depends what you do. Some software expects them, along with easy access to navigation keys or even a numpad.

If I could get a few macros set in the FN layer? That could move mountains as far as regular software is concerned, albeit those mountains are closer to ant hills when it comes to gaming though. Gaming isn’t too important though, this isn’t explicitly for that.

I could get some light gaming from old FPS games, platformers, most puzzle games even.

For me, having to use a layer is just a minor annoyance most of the time… Well, it depends on accessibility of that layer. That's the problem though. OG HHKB's Meta (or Fn) placement simply sucks, compared to thumb keys close to the middle (or a palm key too, if you wish). Hence the HHKB JP.

Then there are times when I fire up some old game (or other software) that absolutely requires function keys or navigation keys, and I can't be arsed to set up a workaround in my custom keymap.

Ah, is that what the key with the HHKB logo does? Or is that simply the winkey

The point of getting the JP version is that you can remap "everything", whether it's in the OS, in hasu controller, or I've seen mentions that HHKB Hybrid can be quite extensively remapped too.

So for example my first JIS realforce keymap was: Caps lock as Backspace (and Backspace as Delete), Henkan&Muhenkan both as AltGr, Kana as Fn… Control was left in place in the corner, because I could press it with the edge of my palm.

You can do a similar permutation on the HHKB JP too.

This is the most frustrating thing as I can’t imagine going from where ctrl usually is all the way over to the numeric row is going to be comfortable, and that in of itself is an improvement upon only having an FN where the right alt would be. We’ll see how big of an issue this becomes when I have the board in my small little girl hands, and I recognize this is definitely a bit of a me issue.

I love customization though, I had a blast setting up my model F key map (when I found a legible guide for the converter) so if the BT hybrid model has anything of the sort, I will be over the moon and give it every slight tweak possible.

[hellothere]

Here ya go. Ticks all the boxes for you.

The Caps Lock and Control key placement has been semi-fluid for a lot of years. I'm currently typing this on a 30ish year old keyboard and the left modifier above the shift key is CTRL. Caps Lock is to the left of the Spacebar. My OmniKeys had a dip switch to change CTRL and Caps Lock placement. I didn't think I'd like or get used to having the CTRL key above the Shift key, but I'm not having any problems.

I mention the NiZ because I like them slightly more than my Topre RealForce 2. There's also a model with Bluetooth ... if you really need it. Adding $50 to the price for Bluetooth just isn't worth it for me. Sure, I can pair with my laptop, but I could easily plug in a keyboard cable in a lot less time. Well, if I had anything other than Thunderbolt 3 ports on my laptop. I'd have to get a $10 adapter.

I'll again note that the Topre RealForce 3 is now out. I have no idea if this would change your choices. I also have not tried an HHKB. It might be revolutionary over my Topre or NiZ-key keyboard.

[xxhellfirexx]

I have a HHKB and use the same macros as I have for my AT keyboards.
2x Ctrl = Caps Lock
2x Shift = Page Up
2x Opt = Page Down
Cmd + 2x Shift = Home
Cmd + 2x Opt = End
Shift + Backspace = Delete
Holding down one shift key turns the other shift key to backspace

I think the Topre and NiZ key layouts may be more practical for those who use page nav and arrow keys frequently like I do. Pressing Fn + K is doable, but anything further to the left is too much of a stretch (pun intended).

Also doing double quote, command left arrow, double quote requires more concentration to move between the shift and fn keys.

Depending on how much you use Bluetooth, having Bluetooth built in may be better value than a third-party controller. First of all, third party controllers can set up back $75 USD (Yang HHKB BLE) and commercial Bluetooth controllers can have better battery life (HHKB uses 2x 3000 mAh batteries and last around 3 months while a 3000 mAh Yang lasts about a month).

Also, it would be worth testing the longevity of the NiZ silicone domes as silicone retains its elasticity for longer than rubber.

[hellothere]

One of the exceedingly few things I can complain about on my NiZ-based TKL is that the keycaps don't have the sub-legends for a "number keypad" like the RealForce does (e.g. FN+JKL is 123). However, this really was a "try to find a problem" thing. Neither the NiZ Plum nor the RealForce have dedicated media keys, which is another "try to find a problem" thing. At the very least, as the NiZ has MX-compatible caps, I could either buy some printed keys for media stuff or I could buy some re-legend-able keys.

@Mu, the post above mine is your opportunity to talk about the Bluetooth h@x your HHKB has.

[LambdaCore]

Just spend the weekend out of town, and brought the HHKB and laptop!

It was... pretty damn usable as far as 60%'s go. I was wrong about the CTRL placement, it's actually super convenient for such a small keyboard as it allows for FN to be placed in a spot that allows you to press most of the keys alongside it, so you don't have to fiddle around with wonky FN placements, and CTRL on caps lock is really growing on me (I even set it up on my realforce!) The 45g domes feel great, albeit I still personally prefer 55g's tactility even if I think 45g felt smoother all around. Great keyboard! Even held up under some light gaming.

[Muirium]

That’s my regular setup right there. A commendably effective little beast, the HHKB.

Control should always be left of A. I have it set up that way everywhere now, including on my laptop. So much more useful a key for such a prime piece of keyboard real estate.

[Go-Kart]

Well, you know what a genuine IBM 3278 solenoid is like now. Perhaps that would get you impaled in murderous rage!

Indeed, I do now know, thanks to a car park keyboard rendezvous, over the boarder! I'd wager a solenoid-less Beamer would be enough

[LambdaCore]

It's a hard thing to get used to, having had it under shift my entire life (I'm pretty young!) but it's been fun learning the layout. Some oddities though, due to the fact that it's a Japanese board, the legends aren't entirely accurate oddly enough, matching the normal ANSI a bit closer. Not a huge issue though, as the legends aren't easily legible depending on the lighting, and I touch type anyways (I'm on deskthority after all!)