Does anyone know what's going on with Matias?

apastuszak

10 Jul 2022, 16:58

I was on their website and it they've discontinued the Tactile Pro for PC a while ago. Now it looks like the Quiet Pro for Mac and PC have both been discontinued.

I feel like they're just burning through existing inventory and then discontinuing products when they sell out.

Or are full-size keyboard losing their appeal, and they're only going to make their mini line?

Or maybe they're going "all Mac?"

My only problem with their mini keyboards is the lack of an insert key. I live inside SecureCRT at work, and I need to paste all the time, and that's done with shift+insert.

And before you ask, I can't install anything, so I can't use any autohotkey magic to get around the problem.

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Muirium
µ

10 Jul 2022, 17:29

Purely speculation here, riffing on what you said: supply chain issues are a monumental bitch at the moment. If Matas were mass discontinuing things in 2019, I’d have been worried they were done for good. But everything’s still recovering in creaks and starts since Covid, so it doesn’t surprise me at all that a small outfit like Matias would really feel it.

Speculation aside, you can ask them. Edgar Matias is a pretty talkative chap, as I recall. They’re the kind of company who may give you a straight answer if you ask.

apastuszak

10 Jul 2022, 19:42

I really wish they would create a fully programmable full size Tactile Pro and Quiet Pro. Their Ergo Pro is programmable. Maybe that knowledge can help with making other keyboard programmable.

I have a Tactile Pro for Mac and love this thing. But my desk has my Mac on it, and my Windows work laptop. And the lack of an insert key is such a deal breaker for me. I was going to buy a full size Quiet Pro, and then I saw they were discontinued.

I wonder if there are new keyboards waiting to come out, but they want to clear the old models out of the supply chain.

apastuszak

10 Jul 2022, 19:43

I've spent some time trying to find a used Quiet Pro of PC and can't find one. Plenty of Tactile Pros for Mac.

I'm thinking their PC line of keyboards were not very big sellers for them.

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Muirium
µ

10 Jul 2022, 21:44

You’ve got to reckon their main audience always was the Mac.

They’re up against stiffer competition these days with keyboards having a far, far higher profile than back then. For a time, Matias really was the go to for keyboard curious Mac users: the supposed AEK II of legend, reborn. Keychrons and the like are just as popular on Mac and PC now. It’s a different world.

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hellothere

12 Jul 2022, 19:17

apastuszak wrote:
10 Jul 2022, 19:43
I've spent some time trying to find a used Quiet Pro of PC and can't find one. Plenty of Tactile Pros for Mac.
I have a Laptop Pro, that I have not done anything to since I bought it. While it does have the fun option characters you can do on the Mac, I bet you could get a standard white-on-black (WOB) keycap set and that'd fit mostly ok. You can remap keys extremely easily in Sharp Keys. Macros? Auto Hot Key is surprisingly easy to use, too, if you look at the examples.

You can buy keycaps and switches directly from Matias. That means that if you have some soldering experience, you could get any Alps keyboard and solder whatever Alps or Matias switch you want into them.

Another modern option is to get one of these and add your own switches. There are a couple other DIY Alps kits out there, but I'm too lazy to look, ATM :P

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SneakyRobb
THINK

16 Jul 2022, 01:13

I met with Matias in November 2021 about possibly making SKCM neon green style tactile leaves. I was told we would need about 100,000 complete switch orders to produce Neon tactile leaf. So at least as recently as November they were seriously entertaining business ideas. Would need about 150 people to order 100 switches at 15 cents usd to make work. Haven't talked to them since though, not sure their current status

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thefarside

16 Jul 2022, 05:18

SneakyRobb wrote:
16 Jul 2022, 01:13
I met with Matias in November 2021 about possibly making SKCM neon green style tactile leaves. I was told we would need about 100,000 complete switch orders to produce Neon tactile leaf. So at least as recently as November they were seriously entertaining business ideas. Would need about 150 people to order 100 switches at 15 cents usd to make work. Haven't talked to them since though, not sure their current status
Interesting project. Was there enough interest?

I ordered switches from Matias in January and had no issues and thankfully no price increase since my last order. Hopefully they stay in business and keep the alps switch alive.

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SneakyRobb
THINK

16 Jul 2022, 17:48

thefarside wrote:
16 Jul 2022, 05:18
Interesting project. Was there enough interest?

I ordered switches from Matias in January and had no issues and thankfully no price increase since my last order. Hopefully they stay in business and keep the alps switch alive.
Hi,

I wasn't really contacting them to do a group buy. I just wanted to see if they could make just the tactile leaf part and can I then buy like 1000 of them but they needed the entire switch order and 100,000 examples to be pre-ordered. I don't really want to run a group buy so I did not pursue it nor did I ever post an interest check.

Robb

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Bjerrk

16 Jul 2022, 18:00

SneakyRobb wrote:
16 Jul 2022, 17:48
Hi,

I wasn't really contacting them to do a group buy. I just wanted to see if they could make just the tactile leaf part and can I then buy like 1000 of them but they needed the entire switch order and 100,000 examples to be pre-ordered. I don't really want to run a group buy so I did not pursue it nor did I ever post an interest check.

Robb
What would the housing then be like? Hypothetically speaking ...

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Muirium
µ

16 Jul 2022, 18:37

Sounds like a stock, no sir answer to me. Why don’t you kids go start your own casino? In your treehouse! Unlikely but not quite as impolite as saying scram.

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thefarside

16 Jul 2022, 20:40

I can understand not wanting to manage a group buy and I wonder if there would be enough people interested. It’s interesting but I wonder how much of the feel would be different with the simplified contact leaf Matias uses.

The price-per-switch isn’t bad though. My last few switch purchases from Matias have been $50 for 200 switches or $0.25/switch, so $0.15/switch for a custom doesn’t sound too bad.

Hak Foo

16 Jul 2022, 21:31

I have to worry that the enthusiast industry is going to leave Matias behind, because he's stuck inside a tiny ecosystem.

I waited for his new keycaps. For years. And years. I bought Tai-Haos and those generic XDA-profile blanks as placeholders. And waited more, gradually burning my way through several aftermarket PCBs on a Northgate.

Eventually I just got fed up and designed a MX-mount board, and now I can just click a few times on AliExpress and have dump-trucks full of cheap high-quality keycaps show up at my door, in an unimaginable galaxy of profiles and colours.

I still prefer the feel of an Alps-like switch, but the Kailh box switches are "almost good enough", cheap, and fit with the broader ecosystem.

I suspect we'll see someone produce a popularly-priced, MX-mount, click-leaf switch (No, Zeal, I'm not willing to spend almost USD200 to outfit my 129-key board with Clickiez) and then what is their unique selling point?

On the other hand, maybe from their business perspective, they went all "tail wags the dog". I know their original selling point was to provide Mac-friendly designs and some special-purpose ergonomic designs-- having to manage the whole switch and keycap business is a major sideshow if they don't really want to be a "switch and keycap" company. They needed their switches to supply the promise of "it feels like an AEK", but if that becomes something you can buy off the shelf, maybe they'll pivot back to their original focus.

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SneakyRobb
THINK

16 Jul 2022, 22:41

Bjerrk wrote:
16 Jul 2022, 18:00

What would the housing then be like? Hypothetically speaking ...
Everything would be the same except the metal leaf is what I wanted to modify.
neon vs other.jpg
neon vs other.jpg (76.9 KiB) Viewed 3795 times
Daniel Beardsmore photo from wiki
wiki/File:Alps_SKCM_Haru_(bamboo)_--_ta ... ison_1.jpg

It was not a rejection, I wanted to make a small number of just the metal for personal use and they told me it would take a $15,000 order for 100,000 switches to do it. I simply did not want to bother with a group buy to swap a little part into skcm. They would have also had to have discussed with the factory if they would want to do it etc etc

It would feel different yes due to materials etc.

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LambdaCore

21 Jul 2022, 00:29

I don't think discontinuing products is anything new for Matias from what I've read regarding their overall history, so I don't think it's worth panicking over just yet.. that said the thought of losing the last bit of Alps DNA is quite sad, I'm crossing my fingers and hoping for the best!
SneakyRobb wrote:
16 Jul 2022, 22:41

Everything would be the same except the metal leaf is what I wanted to modify.

neon vs other.jpg
Daniel Beardsmore photo from wiki
wiki/File:Alps_SKCM_Haru_(bamboo)_--_ta ... ison_1.jpg

It was not a rejection, I wanted to make a small number of just the metal for personal use and they told me it would take a $15,000 order for 100,000 switches to do it. I simply did not want to bother with a group buy to swap a little part into skcm. They would have also had to have discussed with the factory if they would want to do it etc etc

It would feel different yes due to materials etc.
I would absolutely love to try neon green alps, I doubt we'll see it from Matias any time soon, but perhaps that's why they're downsizing? I kind of doubt that, though, since I can't imagine manufacturing a lot of their PC offerings alongside their Mac offerings cost too much considering how similar they all are. More likely, I'd bet they might make a singular new model that simply uses a dip switch and some extra caps to switch from Windows to Mac mode, which would both save Matias and consumers some money.

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Muirium
µ

21 Jul 2022, 12:20

Discontinuing poorly selling product lines is just part of business. Products have their natural lifecycles.

Hopefully Matias is gearing up for something new and interesting. Whether it'll be 'Alps' based, we can only cross our fingers! ;)

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thefarside

21 Jul 2022, 13:48

I hope so too. I like Matias products. My only complaint is their switch plate. Compared to Alps it’s flimsy with a smaller contact leaf area negatively affecting the feel. I’d love to see a revised version with a larger contact leaf and a top housing compatible with vintage SKCM.

Matias also sells Chiclet keyboards and I wonder if that is a larger business for them.

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LambdaCore

21 Jul 2022, 14:39

I hope not, but if I had to take a shot in the dark: I’d bet it brings in less, however costs significantly less and brings more overall profit. Ergo stuff can especially be huge for offices and what not, some companies will bulk buy, and most of Matias’s ergo offerings are membrane based and not using their alps clones.

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hellothere

21 Jul 2022, 18:35

LambdaCore wrote:
21 Jul 2022, 14:39
I hope not, but if I had to take a shot in the dark: I’d bet it brings in less, however costs significantly less and brings more overall profit. Ergo stuff can especially be huge for offices and what not, some companies will bulk buy, and most of Matias’s ergo offerings are membrane based and not using their alps clones.
As far as I can tell on Matias' website, their only ergonomic keyboard, the Ergo Pro, has Matias Quiet Click switches.

I don't know how new this is, but Matias has a group buy for a 60% Alps mount and MX mount currently going on.

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LambdaCore

21 Jul 2022, 21:50

I could have sworn they had membrane ergo stuff! Might be mixing it up with a few of their other weirder boards.

And it's a shame I'm not super interested in 60% stuff, but I love seeing more alps mount boards regardless!

Edit: Just saw the board, and frankly I'm disappointed with the design so far. I don't like the weirdly elongated bottom row, especially since if it were a regular sized cap, you could easily fit an f-key row up top!

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Muirium
µ

21 Jul 2022, 22:17

Don’t think the Ergo Pro was a success. Here’s my review of the original (worse) design: all the way back in 2015.

Was that their last new mech? It’s been a while.

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webwit
Wild Duck

21 Jul 2022, 22:41

Quite the accomplishment for Matias to have entered the times of soaring mechanical keyboard popularity in the last 12 years, while continuing to make keyboards which appeal to not a single demography in that new crowd. Unicomp vibes.

Findecanor

21 Jul 2022, 23:21

hellothere wrote:
21 Jul 2022, 18:35
I don't know how new this is, but Matias has a group buy for a 60% Alps mount and MX mount currently going on.
Apparently, the group order has been going on since 2014 but not delivered.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65528.0

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LambdaCore

22 Jul 2022, 00:40

webwit wrote:
21 Jul 2022, 22:41
Quite the accomplishment for Matias to have entered the times of soaring mechanical keyboard popularity in the last 12 years, while continuing to make keyboards which appeal to not a single demography in that new crowd. Unicomp vibes.
Even Unicomp have tried pushing products to meet popular demand, like the mini M, which incidentally is also relevant for the gaming side of the mechanical keyboard world for its better rollover situation and tenkeyless form factor

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Muirium
µ

22 Jul 2022, 11:38

Unicomp woke up with the Mini M. I’ve complaints aplenty about that keyboard compared to OG SSK, but they done good. Hope to see similar signs of fresh life again from Matias. Unicomp definitely surprised me! I really did think they were all cruising until retirement.

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Bjerrk

22 Jul 2022, 13:40

Muirium wrote:
22 Jul 2022, 11:38
I’ve complaints aplenty about <insert subject>
;)

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Muirium
µ

22 Jul 2022, 14:44

Don't get me started on generics! :lol:

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thefarside

22 Jul 2022, 15:51

Findecanor wrote:
21 Jul 2022, 23:21
hellothere wrote:
21 Jul 2022, 18:35
I don't know how new this is, but Matias has a group buy for a 60% Alps mount and MX mount currently going on.
Apparently, the group order has been going on since 2014 but not delivered.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65528.0
I think the 60% keyboard is for sale. In the description it says the US version is available and I see it listed in their online store.

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hellothere

24 Jul 2022, 03:23

Spoiler:
thefarside wrote:
22 Jul 2022, 15:51
Findecanor wrote:
21 Jul 2022, 23:21
hellothere wrote:
21 Jul 2022, 18:35
I don't know how new this is, but Matias has a group buy for a 60% Alps mount and MX mount currently going on.
Apparently, the group order has been going on since 2014 but not delivered.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65528.0
I think the 60% keyboard is for sale. In the description it says the US version is available and I see it listed in their online store.
If you mean https://matias.store/products/60-keyboa ... 1105295491, the extended note at the bottom starts with, "Because of the exploratory nature of this keyboard, there is no specific end date in mind to finish engineering, let alone production." I'm sorry if I got anyone's hopes up.
Muirium wrote:
21 Jul 2022, 22:17
Don’t think the Ergo Pro was a success. Here’s my review of the original (worse) design: all the way back in 2015.
I'm not a typist. Hunt and peck. However, the Ergo Pro's large CTRL, etc. keys that Muirium mentions in the review as a good thing for a real typist are also a good thing in my book.

I own one Ergo Pro, still, and may eventually get around to fixing it. Maybe. I still like cream damped Alps better than Matias' switches, though. I think an Ergo Pro would be excellent with Topre or Nopre switches.

EDIT: I almost forgot. The "new-ish" Ergo Pro is available as programmable for an extra $20. I think that price is in CAN $.

kshopper2084

25 Jul 2022, 21:54

LambdaCore wrote:
21 Jul 2022, 21:50
I could have sworn they had membrane ergo stuff! Might be mixing it up with a few of their other weirder boards.

And it's a shame I'm not super interested in 60% stuff, but I love seeing more alps mount boards regardless!

Edit: Just saw the board, and frankly I'm disappointed with the design so far. I don't like the weirdly elongated bottom row, especially since if it were a regular sized cap, you could easily fit an f-key row up top!
I love the Ergo Pro. Been my daily driver since it launched. Large format bottom row is fantastic for accuracy.
I've gone through 3 of these boards over the years, and my latest I replaced the kind of meh Quiet-Click Matias switches with some classic SCKM salmons, total game-changer. 8-)

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