Soarers Converter and my Work Laptop

User avatar
Inxie

16 Aug 2022, 14:21

So my work finally approved me in using my XT Model F and the Soarers converter for work after they inspected the keyboard and adapter, however it appears the Surface Laptop 4 I'm issued isn't liking it. We have to use a USB-C dock with HDMI on it and 2 USB ports, and with my monitor, keyboard and mouse attached, every once in a while the keyboard will stop typing, and miss characters, but when this happens it knocks out the mouse for a second as well and that won't move. If I switch the keyboard out for a Redragon K522 (the first keyboard I had approved), it works just fine, no issues whatsoever.

The weird thing too, I tried using the USB hub on my 27" monitor as well on my own personal PC, simulating a hub in the middle like the work laptop, and the same darn weird issue happens even on my own personal computer. Something about the Soarers converter seems to not like hubs, and knocks out the hub every once in a while when typing. If I usually plug the keyboard straight into the computer, it works fine, but the work laptops only USB-A port is taken by the issued USB Ethernet adapter, and I am not allowed to remove it under any circumstances while at work, or use it through the hub.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

16 Aug 2022, 17:06

You could try running TMK on your converter instead. Here’s the XT layout in Unimap:

http://www.tmk-kbd.com/tmk_keyboard/edi ... sb_32u4_xt

Configure as you like, download the hex file and flash it to your Teensy / Pro Micro.

Soarer’s converter is much better at macros than TMK (or QMK), so hopefully you’re not using those. Soarer’s is also easier to reflash as scboot will always command it to do that, while TMK uses “magic” key combos (typically both Shifts plus Print Screen to enter DFU mode) which can fail if you’re not careful where you put certain keys. (Raises hand. :P)

But definitely worth the troubleshooting step, given your situation. Is this a firmware thing or a hardware thing? Try another firmware and see.

User avatar
Inxie

17 Aug 2022, 00:51

Muirium wrote:
16 Aug 2022, 17:06
You could try running TMK on your converter instead. Here’s the XT layout in Unimap:

http://www.tmk-kbd.com/tmk_keyboard/edi ... sb_32u4_xt

Configure as you like, download the hex file and flash it to your Teensy / Pro Micro.

Soarer’s converter is much better at macros than TMK (or QMK), so hopefully you’re not using those. Soarer’s is also easier to reflash as scboot will always command it to do that, while TMK uses “magic” key combos (typically both Shifts plus Print Screen to enter DFU mode) which can fail if you’re not careful where you put certain keys. (Raises hand. :P)

But definitely worth the troubleshooting step, given your situation. Is this a firmware thing or a hardware thing? Try another firmware and see.
Thanks, I'll try the TMK firmware. I have both a Teensy converter and the pre-built one from eBay (official ones not the unauthorized ones). The one I built is built into another PC with a DIN socket on the case, unfortunately I can't try that one but it always worked, then again it was plugged directly into the mainboard. The eBay adapter I'm using is the one I got authorized for work, the Teensy was not authorized due to the DIY nature. (I shouldn't have, but I didn't disclose technically the eBay one was DIY either).

Also, is it normal when a company is checking the keyboard, for them to take it apart? They did that, I got a followup report today about it, and in the report was pics of my Model F taken apart. I'm guessing because my company deals with PII, and they wanted to ensure nothing was hiding inside.

apastuszak

17 Aug 2022, 15:58

I had a similar issue with my Soarer's Converter. What fixed the problem for me was updating to the latest BIOS/UEFI on my laptop AND installing the latest firmware on my USB-C dock.

I'm using all Lenovo hardware, so it may be different for you. But it's worth looking into.

User avatar
Inxie

17 Aug 2022, 18:21

Unfortunately I can't update the firmware on the work laptop or the dock. While I could update the dock with my own PC, I don't have a PC with a USB-C port.

HC514

17 Aug 2022, 19:16

I get similar problems (including knocking out the mouse) when using one plugged into a 4-way basic USB splitter, which is in turn plugged into a powered USB-C dock. Today I tried plugging the converter directly into the dock, and that seemed to eliminate the issue, from the little I tested.

I'm guessing the dock you have isn't powered, right? If you have the opportunity, maybe you could try to get hold of a powered one to see if that handles it better?

User avatar
Inxie

17 Aug 2022, 22:28

The dock isn't powered but it does have a PD input, not sure how that works with the work laptops charger though because the Surface Laptop 4 also supports PD charging and the dock does forward it to the laptop while taking 15 watts for itself.

User avatar
Inxie

22 Aug 2022, 14:06

Ok I flashed the TMK on a Teensy and installed it directly into the Model F this time instead of the external plug in Soarers adapter.

So far it hasn't shut down when typing, going through the same hub built into my monitor, but haven't plugged into the work laptop yet only my personal PC. Though, so far one bug across Soarers and TMK has persisted and I'm starting to think this is Windows because it worked in my BIOS just fine, whereas at the login screen the keyboard just won't work and I have to re-plug it in, then it works after 5 seconds.

Actually, the Teensy 2.0 is fairly slow to come up with TMK or Soarers. I noticed on Soarers firmware which was already on this Teensy 2.0, when I plug it in and touch keys on the keyboard, the LED turns on for 3 seconds, but types nothing. TMK no LED, but still no typing until after 5 seconds. Guessing this is the Teensy 2.0 bootloader just taking it's time.

User avatar
Inxie

22 Aug 2022, 14:26

UPDATE: Same weird cold boot issue happening on work laptop, but only with the monitors USB hub, didn't act up on cold boot with the Surface Laptop 4's dock, which is at least one change so far so that's good.

Starting to remember I had this SAME cold boot issue with my Das Keyboard as well with Windows when I had a Mac Pro 2008 running Windows 10. Starting to think the cold boot issue isn't related at all and is Windows being unable to handle some USB hub and keyboard combos (the Das Keyboard has a built in hub and it's the only common thing I can think of). The monitors USB hub is powered by the monitors power supply (since the mouse still lights up when the monitors USB cable is disconnected from the computer).

User avatar
Muirium
µ

22 Aug 2022, 14:36

Inxie wrote:
22 Aug 2022, 14:06
Guessing this is the Teensy 2.0 bootloader just taking it's time.
Not so. You can verify this yourself by flashing the Teensy's default (and purposefully trivial) flash.hex back onto the Teensy, removing power and then seeing just how quickly it begins its flashing again when you plug it back in. They're inherently quite fast at booting up.

As for the powered USB hub in the monitor: my Dell P2415Q has a powered USB 3 hub that's quite reliable in itself. More so than the video, to be honest, as I routinely have to power cycle the damn thing from the mains just to show up again on my Mac! This monitor's always been like that. Good for charging things though, as it keeps its ports powered up, regardless of "sleep".

I haven't noticed any Soarer or TMK issues with it, and I frequently use such keyboards connected into the Dell's hub. I have had it get in the way of *flashing* them, however. Though this seems to work now on Monterey on my M1 Mac, for whatever reason. My habit was always to connect straight to the computer to flash firmware before.

User avatar
Inxie

22 Aug 2022, 16:14

Muirium wrote:
22 Aug 2022, 14:36
Inxie wrote:
22 Aug 2022, 14:06
Guessing this is the Teensy 2.0 bootloader just taking it's time.
Not so. You can verify this yourself by flashing the Teensy's default (and purposefully trivial) flash.hex back onto the Teensy, removing power and then seeing just how quickly it begins its flashing again when you plug it back in. They're inherently quite fast at booting up.

As for the powered USB hub in the monitor: my Dell P2415Q has a powered USB 3 hub that's quite reliable in itself. More so than the video, to be honest, as I routinely have to power cycle the damn thing from the mains just to show up again on my Mac! This monitor's always been like that. Good for charging things though, as it keeps its ports powered up, regardless of "sleep".

I haven't noticed any Soarer or TMK issues with it, and I frequently use such keyboards connected into the Dell's hub. I have had it get in the way of *flashing* them, however. Though this seems to work now on Monterey on my M1 Mac, for whatever reason. My habit was always to connect straight to the computer to flash firmware before.
I'm using a Gigabyte monitor. I'm guessing at the model since I'm at work right now but I think it's G27FC. I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's just this USB hub that's giving me grief, it's the only common denominator.

So far however since I started work an hour ago, TMK has NOT disconnected and cause the mouse to reset, so there is a change, and flashing Soarers back onto it immediately brought those issues back on the Teensy just like the pre-built from eBay, so the TMK is working better in general.

Though.........the magic keys don't work. No matter how many times I hit both shift keys and hit V, or any of the other combinations, nothing is typed out into Notepad. I mean that's fine for me since I wasn't going to use that anyway since I want a 1:1 mapping and just use software for macros anyway, but I did set up the keyboard and used the link you gave me to flash with, and I verified in the config on github, those magic keys are indeed set, so not sure what's going on, maybe my Teensy is just acting up. Only thing I know is I did add those pull up resistors like everyone keeps saying I need, and don't have RESET connected, but I have a Type 2 Model F, not a Type 1.

User avatar
Inxie

22 Aug 2022, 16:48

Ok I can confirm the monitors USB hub is causing issues with the boot time, plugged into a computer directly OR through a dedicated powered hub, it just works, and the TMK is working FLAWLESSLY now.

I did notice the USB hub in the monitor seems to be tied to inputs, so when the PC boots up and switches resolutions the hub reboots, that's gotta be why Windows is having a cow over it. Not sure why the Redragon keyboard seems unphased by it, but I can work with this, in fact this is the best I could ask for.

Thanks for the TMK recommendation, it's working perfectly now with my work laptop, I've been able to put in several case notes and close tickets without so much as a single typo or being stalled by the keyboard and mouse shutting down.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

22 Aug 2022, 17:16

Much better! :D

TMK's magic keys don't work for me either, not with my various Teensy powered converters. But they are rock solid on Hasu's own controllers in my HHKBs and Alps64. Maybe it's just a converter thing. The Teensy is not the issue, as Soarer's scboot utility works with his firmware on Teensy every time.

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