Looking for more 60% sized keyboards

[naisanza]

I'm trying to find more keyboards with the 60% size. The only ones worth noting are HHKB, Poker, and the Pure.

I'm always looking for more and I haven't been coming across many. I'm seeing if you guys know of some that I haven't found.

Thanks!

[fossala]

There is the GH60 soon, there is a bunch of Korean ones as well. Don't forget the hyper either!

[Acanthophis]

Also Poker.

[CeeSA]

i see no benefit in 60% keyboards in any way. You loose a lot of keys, you could program the way you like it.
Especially if you have a programmable controller.
Race, Deck82, Choc Mini, MX-Mini - thats the way i like it.

[naisanza]

Also Poker.

Ah, yes, this was the one I saw before I saw the Pure. Almost got it too, but would have been a mistake. Dedicated arrow keys on the Pure are exactly what's missing from the HHKB.

[naisanza]

i see no benefit in 60% keyboards in any way. You loose a lot of keys, you could program the way you like it.
Especially if you have a programmable controller.
Race, Deck82, Choc Mini, MX-Mini - thats the way i like it.

We definitely differ in opinion on the benefits. I see it as keys that I never use. 60% is compact, clean, and looks great. The reason I love the HHKB non-print is due to the fact that I really liked the simplicity and it's symmetry.

[CeeSA]

if you are not a gamer or somebody who like to program keys with makro/multimedia etc. i understand.
But some kind of symmetry is still there for 70% keyboards. Simplicity certainly not.

[kbdfr]

Why stop by 60%?

There is no real need for any numbers (write "four hundred and fifty-six" instead of 456).
No need for "x" (simply write "ks")
No need for a question mark ("How are you" is a question even without it).
No need for Shift (plain lower case is good enough).
No need for [ and ], for < and >, for { and }.
No need for / and |, for ~, for %, for _, for &.

And even if you want them all, 4 keys are enough:
http://bloggenist.blogspot.de/2010/11/k ... asten.html

[Acanthophis]

Dedicated arrow keys on the Pure are exactly what's missing from the HHKB.

Ehh, what?
Both lack dedicated arrow keys.

[IvanIvanovich]

Right, neither have dedicated arrows. Both Poker and Pure have arrow lock, and both have FN+ some letter key for arrows as well. Poker is on WASD and Pure is on i forget with keys on the right okl, or something? The only differences are Pure has an extra key and shorter right shift and different 2nd layer assignments, and optionally backlight.
I'll be getting my GH60 proto soon. Can't wait to get it assembled and start testing.

I also prefer 60%. I don't use all the extra dedicated keys enough to justify wasting so much desk space for even a tenkeyless, let alone fullsize. I could probably do with something even a little less, as I don't really NEED dedicated punctuations, but the num row is defineatly neccessary. Can't enter things like IP address without numbers. ten.fourteen.seventysix.onehundredfour dosen't work.
I guess an embedded numpad on some layer would be fine also though.

[guilleguillaume]

I completely lost ALL the interest in tenkeyless keyboards even if I have three of them.

I noticed that when I saw that I was only using my HHKB Pro 2, HHKB Pro JP and Poker.

[naisanza]

if you are not a gamer or somebody who like to program keys with makro/multimedia etc. i understand.
But some kind of symmetry is still there for 70% keyboards. Simplicity certainly not.

I am 100% PC gamer, FPS to be specific, Counter-strike. I don't use macros, but I've seen WoW players do a lot. Anywho there is no less ability to use F1-12/home/end/pgup/pgdn keys with a 60% for me.

I tried the Race, and the immediate reaction after a week was, this is a huge keyboard and it's taking up all this space on my desk. With the F1-12 keys immediately accessible without the need of using a function key made no difference to me.

Forget that I said simple, then. I'm the only one that thinks that way. But clean, and compact is probably more true. Bringing around my HHKB to work was way more convenient than a 70%.

[naisanza]

Dedicated arrow keys on the Pure are exactly what's missing from the HHKB.

Ehh, what?
Both lack dedicated arrow keys.

There's a function lock that makes certain keys on the Pure into arrow keys. The first that I've ever seen on a 60%. I think it's the best feature.

[naisanza]

Also Poker.

The function on the Pure that lets you have dedicated arrow keys makes me like it better than the Poker. But thank you, I forgot to list that.

Edit: I like the design on the Pure a bit better than the Poker.

[Acanthophis]

lysol already said above, they both have function lock for arrow keys...

[naisanza]

Right, neither have dedicated arrows. Both Poker and Pure have arrow lock, and both have FN+ some letter key for arrows as well. Poker is on WASD and Pure is on i forget with keys on the right okl, or something? The only differences are Pure has an extra key and shorter right shift and different 2nd layer assignments, and optionally backlight.
I'll be getting my GH60 proto soon. Can't wait to get it assembled and start testing.

I also prefer 60%. I don't use all the extra dedicated keys enough to justify wasting so much desk space for even a tenkeyless, let alone fullsize. I could probably do with something even a little less, as I don't really NEED dedicated punctuations, but the num row is defineatly neccessary. Can't enter things like IP address without numbers. ten.fourteen.seventysix.onehundredfour dosen't work.
I guess an embedded numpad on some layer would be fine also though.

The arrow lock on the Poker is mapped to wasd? Ouch. I dislike that. The Pure has it mapped to the rshift,ralt,acorn,and rctl. The Pure makes more sense.

I do coding work too, so all the punctuation is definitely required for me. Also, I found that using the numbar is much faster and more fluid to use when coding than jumping over to a numpad.

I think even a 70% is too much. I think there is no issue with using a function key to reach the F1-12 keys. I'm also a heavy linux user and jumping between terminals with fn+alt+f1-12 is absolutely not an issue at all. I feel like I'm offending people when I say that, because I think that's a strange issue if someone has a problem pressing an fn key.

[naisanza]

lysol already said above, they both have function lock for arrow keys...

hah. yeah I'm working through the posts from top down.

[naisanza]

I completely lost ALL the interest in tenkeyless keyboards even if I have three of them.

I noticed that when I saw that I was only using my HHKB Pro 2, HHKB Pro JP and Poker.

I had the KBT Race for one week. I felt almost disgusted at how wasteful of space that one extra row makes me feel. I thought to myself, "really? do I really need that row? It's so useless, and... ugly how big it makes the keyboard."

I love my HHKB. It's my first mechanical keyboard. non-print or otaku (as some people like to call it). It's still the best looking keyboard that I've ever seen. I love the way they made it symmetrical.

I would have to say, this version of the Race looked really good, but only on picture. In real life, the Race was just big.

[naisanza]

There is the GH60 soon, there is a bunch of Korean ones as well. Don't forget the hyper either!

I heard about the Hyper, I'm waiting for it to come out for me to see what it actually looks like.

This would be the likely one I would get for obvious reasons (It's almost like HHKB, but not better). All the other layouts seem messy. There needs to be a Pure layout in there. I think the Pure got it right with fitting in arrow keys onto a 60% by hiding it behind a function lock, which I think is brilliant.

[naisanza]

Why stop by 60%?

There is no real need for any numbers (write "four hundred and fifty-six" instead of 456).
No need for "x" (simply write "ks")
No need for a question mark ("How are you" is a question even without it).
No need for Shift (plain lower case is good enough).
No need for [ and ], for < and >, for { and }.
No need for / and |, for ~, for %, for _, for &.

And even if you want them all, 4 keys are enough:
http://bloggenist.blogspot.de/2010/11/k ... asten.html

I hope this was a joke, because I thought it was.

I think 60% is a good size. I'll be interested in trying the HyperMicro, but probably won't be able to do much work on it, though.

[CeeSA]

Only a optical win of space, ok. But what do you do with extra space above your number row? One row is a "so much waste of deskspace"? Are you serious?

There is no ergonomic win, unlike to a lower width.

BTW: The only part that make the Race big and ugly is the case. It set up the keyboard much to high.

[naisanza]

Only a optical win of space, ok. But what do you do with extra space above your number row? One row is a "so much waste of deskspace"? Are you serious?

There is no ergonomic win, unlike to a lower width.

BTW: The only part that make the Race big and ugly is the case. It set up the keyboard much to high.

I didn't think it would be that big of a difference that's why I got the Race. But after a week just having that extra row just felt enormous. I didn't find it necessary so I returned it. I am serious. I felt that it took up unnecessary space and wasn't appealing to look at.

I didn't understand the part you said about a lower width, though. Care to explain?

I like to have my keyboard set flat.

[CeeSA]

For me, boards wider than 32cm are not usefull. I did not like TKL boards.
I enjoy that my mouse is near as possible to my typing area. It's more ergonomic. I need less distance for the right hand from keyboard to mouse. And my left and right hands are in a pleasant position if i play some shooter.

But there is no win to lose the F row. Ok for the optical "waste of space". Normally the cable above the housing prevent to use the space above the keyboard.

[rknize]

I have an older Poker and a Race. I thought the Race would be the hot ticket due to the dedicated nav keys and F-row, but I hardly use it. I can't get over the tight spacing on the right, so I am constantly hitting Del or Home instead of backspace. Now I see that my muscle memory tends to hit the upper-right corner of backspace.

The Poker is my favorite compact board because it uses all standard key caps, has nav keys as both WASD and in the lower-right modifiers. The latter is lockable. The only thing about Poker that bugs me like crazy is the firmware bug for the lockable Esc key. You can't expose tilde when Esc is locked.

The GH60 will be the perfect board for me, as I'll get the Poker layout without the bugs and it will fit in the Poker/Pure case.

[RC-1140]

I would love to participate in the poll, but thing is, I use mainly oversized boards (122-Keys). On the other hand I also use a G84-4100. I can't miss the function row.

[naisanza]

For me, boards wider than 32cm are not usefull. I did not like TKL boards.
I enjoy that my mouse is near as possible to my typing area. It's more ergonomic. I need less distance for the right hand from keyboard to mouse. And my left and right hands are in a pleasant position if i play some shooter.

But there is no win to lose the F row. Ok for the optical "waste of space". Normally the cable above the housing prevent to use the space above the keyboard.

We will have to agree to disagree. We have different approaches to what we find tasteful. Like, I find the 60% pleasantly appealing without the F1 row, which I think takes away from the uncluttered appeal that I like. I find that without the F1 row the keyboard is cleaner looking. That is the win for me to lose the F1 row.

Interestingly, it is strange to me that you say it is only an optical difference, when.. physically.. there is less keyboard.

[naisanza]

I have an older Poker and a Race. I thought the Race would be the hot ticket due to the dedicated nav keys and F-row, but I hardly use it. I can't get over the tight spacing on the right, so I am constantly hitting Del or Home instead of backspace. Now I see that my muscle memory tends to hit the upper-right corner of backspace.

The Poker is my favorite compact board because it uses all standard key caps, has nav keys as both WASD and in the lower-right modifiers. The latter is lockable. The only thing about Poker that bugs me like crazy is the firmware bug for the lockable Esc key. You can't expose tilde when Esc is locked.

The GH60 will be the perfect board for me, as I'll get the Poker layout without the bugs and it will fit in the Poker/Pure case.

As a curiosity, have you tried the HHKB? I'm wondering if you would like it. In terms of artistic flavor, the HHKB is by far the best one that I've ever seen.

[naisanza]

I would love to participate in the poll, but thing is, I use mainly oversized boards (122-Keys). On the other hand I also use a G84-4100. I can't miss the function row.

Curiously, what do you use the function row for? I use it in linux quite often, but mainly just to switch between terminals.

[CeeSA]

i don't want to mess with you taste (i wrote optical because your argument is your taste). I have a more benefit view to this. I explained why i enjoy less wide keyboard. You did not use the space for the non existing F row. Or you did not explain it until now. I understand that you like keyboard without F row and you don't miss it.
I am just interested in a benefit/argument for 60% keyboards beside the look or taste. And imo there is non. And nobody brings one.

[naisanza]

i don't want to mess with you taste (i wrote optical because your argument is your taste). I have a more benefit view to this. I explained why i enjoy less wide keyboard. You did not use the space for the non existing F row. Or you did not explain it until now. I understand that you like keyboard without F row and you don't miss it.
I am just interested in a benefit/argument for 60% keyboards beside the look or taste. And imo there is non. And nobody brings one.

It is physically smaller and more convenient to carry around. In terms of typing/coding I haven't found a difference in usability between a 60% and 70%. I suppose I consider them equal in usability, but the 60 wins in terms of appeal. With a 60 I gain in appeal with no loss to speed.